Happily single and no threat to your man so why do you fear me?

[notrocketscience]

Reading another poster on the difficulties of a single woman mixing with men through mutual interests; rambling, sport, photography, studying, evening classes...
It got me wondering, and I've suffered from this most of my life as my interests do not include spas and shopping or TV soaps. I like men and have had serious relationships but I also like them as friends. I'm currently a very happy single mother and with no intention of starting another relationship. I'm not a cheater and will not encourage any taken man. Yet other women do see me as a threat and it hurts because I'm really not and it does impact on my very limited social life. Is being a single woman such a bad thing that everyone automatically thinks I must be hanging out for the first man to offer me a quick one? (And don't get me started on the number of mm friends of the Ex who thought exactly that).

PS I was joking of course...just in case starts a row from those who don't get it but obvs not the posters on here

When I left my husband, not only did the dinner party invites dry up overnight but also mutual childcare mysteriously stopped re a few friends and I worked p/t and used one another for childcare but these women suddenly had different childcare arrangements. Which was royally shit for me suddenly having to find conclusive childcare.

I had literally been frozen out overnight. As a pp said, they also never set up intros with single men they knew. It was as if I no longer existed.

Look, let's stop pressing our nose against the window with longing. I think being single is culturally up there with being lonely: shameful, embarrassing. We have to change that! Especially as there are so many of us.

Btw I've found some excellent singles events I really enjoy. Ime there has been zero 'eyes peeled' vibe, just enjoying being together eg walking groups. I am the biggest fan of peer support re spending time with ppl in the same boat.

I often wonder how i'd be if I got into a relationship - esp as a few single friends who have done so have disappeared without trace (so upsetting; as though I/we were something to pass the time and inferior).

Btw I now always wear rings on 'that' finger ( despite some of my friends turning ashen that I'm either inviting bad luck or putting off potential future partners). Life is MUCH easier wearing rings. People relax and it gives me anonymity. I discovered the difference by chance when for a few weeks I wore a beloved ring that didn't for on any other finger - the difference was marked .

Re pp (cheers?) wondering if it's us/something we've done/we're boring/too intense/too talkative/too quiet/too dull/too attractive/too thick/too bright... Oh God yes

Too single, turns out. Too female and single

'As a pp said, they also never set up intros with single men they knew. It was as if I no longer existed.'

I have a really lovely single friend who I am itching to set up with an equally lovely single neighbour. As yet I haven't had the guts to ask either if they would be interested, and an artificially engineered dinner party to accidentally introduce them seems a bit unfair and trite. Everyone says don't match make, it's a recipe for disaster.

So, that could be the reason why intros aren't set up, not that your married friends are freezing you out. Surely if they see you as a threat to their marriage getting you hitched to someone else would be top of their agenda.

erm, I think any women putting herself alone (I mean alone not at a social activity or whatever) with someone else's dp/dh is overstepping boundaries.
I have seen and heard of it happening all too often.

I have no problem with someone being alone with my dp as I trust him explicitly but there seem to be a lot of men out there who take not a lot of persuasion to stray.

I myself have been in positions before with other peoples dp/dh and the man has either made an inappropriate comment or action towards me, in fact its happened so many times now that I will not put myself in that position again.

so yes I can understand why you might be seen as a threat but I wouldn't take it personally- it says far more about those womens relationships than it does you.

Re pp (cheers?) wondering if it's us/something we've done/we're boring/too intense/too talkative/too quiet/too dull/too attractive/too thick/too bright... Oh God yes sad
Too single, turns out. Too female and single

Yes absolutely.

It was all made horribly clear to me how much this mattered when I got married. Everything changed. Suddenly I started (plus DH) being included in these invitations.

In some ways, I felt better - it now being confirmed that I wasn't being excluded because of some major social inadequacy. But in others it still makes me really sad and very resentful. It is true (as I long suspected) that being involved in this type of stuff is hugely valuable in a business context.

It still rankles that when it mattered much more to me (when you are just starting out/ climbing the ladder and getting that opportunity to high level network is so valuable) that I was excluded where as men at a similar level were included.

And the thing is you can never raise it. You just can't go to someone and say "why did you invite Mr Z and not me." and stamp your foot and whinge "it's not fair". It's his house/chateau/country mansion and he and his wife can invite who they like. And maybe they just don't like you. It plainly wasn't that though as married illustrated when the invitations came.

It was all about being single.

*as marriage illustrated

springydaffs I think you are right about changing the perception of the status of the single ladies. Films like Bridgette Jones don't help (I do enjoy them though).
Where did the idea of shame come from? Victorian times or earlier? I suppose because women were not allowed to own property or be independent at one time. (Talking UK here).
We have to change things. It will take years but starts with how our children see us perhaps. I don't have womens magazines in the house, I enjoy them but don't want my daughters totally absorbing the subtle/not so subtle pressure on looks and weight. Similarly, when I'm feeling a little "porky" (ahem) I just quietly do something about it without saying a word. Don't have scales in the house either. We also discuss advertising and the messages behind the messages. lady smiles as muddy but perfect dog/child/man come into her spotless kitchen leaving perfect prints. That kitchen is amazingly large, coordinated, beautiful and top of the range. If you buy this product you too can have a wonderful life, perfect model OH and DC and look perfect too. You will always be happy and in control...only£3.99

When did you see a cluttered tip and a harassed mum who is more likely to swipe the dog up the backside with a mop than smile winningly on any advert?. Ok I'm digressing but you get my drift.

We are culturally trained from the moment we first open our eyes. Takes a good deal of soul searching and willingness to change our own perceptions let alone anyone else.

I'm now making a point just to smile or exchange a quick word with anyone in the queue at Lidl or wherever especially if they are on their own. 80% of the time I get a returned smile and if people shun me it says more about them. (mad single woman alert).

Worserevived - I broke the code so I was out.

Interestingly, in that area there are hardly any splits/divorces. Only one couple that I can think of, no 2 - and that's in 30 years! Both bcs of flagrant adultery.

All very wealthy fwiw.

Makingmiracles, you think no woman should ever be alone with a man who has a (female) partner?

I'd hate to live in a world with those rules.

notrocketscience I'm really making an effort to prioritise single friends at the moment. I only have three really but enough is enough, no more pressing our noses up against the glass as springy says....

I think I have a good single friend, only one town away! So, without saying anything, or pouting, or discussing it, I will be prioritising her over the monday to friday type of friendships. I hope that makes sense. I work, but only part time, so I still run in to all the married mum acquaintances/friends.

I'm not trying to get married men "on their own". Just would be nice to be included in the mixed company things.

But ah well. I am psyching myself up to do internate dating. Some people find it fun right? I will design my profile to make it as clear as I can that I'm not up for a shag. So even if I only get three replies a year they might be more hopeful. That's my plan.

Erm not many people find it fun from what I've gathered. You have to have nerves of steel to do it (I don't) (have nerves of steel) bcs certain people men get dazzled by how many peoplewomenare on there and think they're in a sweet shop and can't help moving on bcs they feel they have to try everyone just in case. Sorry to put a downer on it.

Rl anyday for me. You get to see how they are in social situations, how they interact with others, what they talk about when they're not trying to impress. Eg. You get to see them unawares.

I've read all of this thread with fascination - so many of your comments have helped me.

I'm 50 and single and lonely. I live in a small community and there is a great deal of couples based socialising and, of course, I am not included.

I do feel excluded but haven't fully been able to articulate that it's not just about being included in an invitation so that you have been with other people for an evening - it becomes an exclusion from the community because that is where all the conversation goes on, all the exchange of information etc etc. In other words, networking and bonding at a community level.

I'm quiet, intelligent and articulate and struggling to move forward in my life.

As a pp said, I know that things will change immediately if I were to find myself in a relationship again - but if I suddenly come to be on a persons guest list just because my status has changed, I'm not sure I will ever be able to rid myself of underlying resentment.

If someone being alone with someone else's dp/dh is crossing boundaries then I frequently cross boundaries. I'm even one of my friends confidants when things aren't great in his relationship. He joins me sometimes taking DD out for the day as he works condensed hours and is available.

I've known him since I was 15 and him 18. His DP doesn't have an issue with it at all thankfully. Why should getting a partner mean he has to radically change our friendship.

Quite simply when my boyfriend came on the scene if he'd had an issue with our friendship we would have fallen at the first hurdle.

Tormentil

This accurately encapsulates how I felt:

it becomes an exclusion from the community because that is where all the conversation goes on, all the exchange of information etc etc. In other words, networking and bonding at a community level.

I was focussed on it in a professional context but I can see that beyond that it is a community social issue.

As a pp said, I know that things will change immediately if I were to find myself in a relationship again - but if I suddenly come to be on a persons guest list just because my status has changed, I'm not sure I will ever be able to rid myself of underlying resentment.

Well look at my still a bit chippy posts on this subject above. It still rankles with me - and the ease with which all these doors opened with no effort from me post-marriage was very depressing.

If it's any help, I found the biggest advantage to me when single was having a couple of like minded friends who were also single - so I had a pretty good social life. Someone earlier on this thread posted about basically only choosing to be friends with single people. That may be a bit extreme - but there is a lot of sense in it. If you can find a couple of single women of around the same age, who like to do what you do and you click with, it is much easier to have a full and satisfying social life. I also had a great group of gay male friends - which even if they are in partnerships or not - doesn't carry all this social "you are excluded" baggage with it.

Springy how did you break the code? I don't understand that statement .

I have single friends. One left her DH. I haven't frozen her out. She has to some extent frozen herself out by being rude to her friends, spreading untrue rumours about them, and rubbing her DHs nose in it by having a very open affair with a mutual friend. So yes, some people have cut her off, but not because she is single. I haven't but it is awkward as her exDH is also a friend.

If you mean you broke the code by leaving, that assumes there is a code. I don't have one.

As for wealthy how is that relevant? Divorce is easier for the wealthy as no one is left in financial difficulty. I'd be better off single as I'd have cash not a joint share of assets I don't have autonomy over.

Question: Do you invite married couples to dinner parties at yours? These things are reciprocal. I'm not into dinner parties so rarely have them. I don't invitations as a consequence. If you start inviting people you will definitely be invited back.

All this is just my experience and may be very different to yours.

Question: Do you invite married couples to dinner parties at yours? These things are reciprocal... If you start inviting people you will definitely be invited back.

Sorry worserevived but this is rubbish and please don't lecture in a patronising way. This was a BIG deal for me in a work context.

I spent a period of two years hosting regular dinner parties for the purposes of net-working - mostly in with work contacts but some socially. It was actually very expensive. I never had a reciprocal invitation. NOT ONE. You can't keep inviting the same people who never invite you back - so I would only invite a couple once.

Not just dinner parties, a couple of times I hosted private dinning for about 8 people in restaurants. Again - nothing back.

No wonder I got so paranoid about it. Then once DH appeared on the scene - boom - the invitations started arriving.

I live in a thriving city precisely so I can choose how I socialise. If I lived in a small, exclusive, cliquey community re pp I'd go down fast.

I refuse to feel marginalised. If my community marginalised me I move on. I know it's not easy to do, I know what I'm saying. I have been marginalised to such an extent, it has had a catastrophic impact on my peace and contentment, I have short patience for shitty situations that tm

I think any women putting herself alone (I mean alone not at a social activity or whatever) with someone else's dp/dh is overstepping boundaries

Blimey - I last posted on this thread on 4th August 2015 but appear to have wandered back into 6th August 1952. How did that happen?

...make me feel shitty (phone playing up).

To state the obvious: i have a right to live here - on the planet!, to feel valued for who I am and what I have to contribute. I refuse to be in a situation where i am marginalised, if I can help it.

You only get the one life (imo) I refuse to feel shit, less-than.

When I used to work in the Middle East on rotation, my wife would say her friends excluded her when I was away (if they were going out as couples).

Also on a number of occasions; friends asked her if I was back on a particular date (as some event was happening) and if I wasn't on leave, they would just blatantly clam up and say nothing else. Even if she asked them why they wanted to know my schedule, they would make up something.

DrMorbius That is appalling behaviour from your wife's "friends". Not only was she missing you but then to be excluded as well. Horrible.

How did you feel about this? Did you believe her? Did you have any suggestions?

It's interesting to hear a male perspective on this as it doesn't seem to happen to single males.

as it doesn't seem to happen to single males interesting isn't it - single males seem to need looking after, single women best avoided because of their predatory nature!

My sister sadly has a few friends who have been widowed in their early 50's, she hasn't excluded them but I do think they have all found the dropping from any normal "couple" meets very very hard. They only get invited to women only events on the whole.

I don't think this is entirely because people are worried that they'll steal their husband (I hope!) but also because many couples feel uncomfortable having a single around. I speak with personal experience!

I'm beginning to think this is a topic for woman's hour and to bring it into public awareness, courtesy of journalists and the media.

An Horizon documentary would find plenty of anecdotal evidence if they looked.