Happily single and no threat to your man so why do you fear me?

[notrocketscience]

Reading another poster on the difficulties of a single woman mixing with men through mutual interests; rambling, sport, photography, studying, evening classes...
It got me wondering, and I've suffered from this most of my life as my interests do not include spas and shopping or TV soaps. I like men and have had serious relationships but I also like them as friends. I'm currently a very happy single mother and with no intention of starting another relationship. I'm not a cheater and will not encourage any taken man. Yet other women do see me as a threat and it hurts because I'm really not and it does impact on my very limited social life. Is being a single woman such a bad thing that everyone automatically thinks I must be hanging out for the first man to offer me a quick one? (And don't get me started on the number of mm friends of the Ex who thought exactly that).

As John Lennon said 'Women are the n**ers of the world'. If this impacts on women it barely makes a wave.

(Not that JL was particularly covered in glory when it came to women, mind.)

So, women, married women, are conforming to male stereotypes about women when they exclude us. We're either virgins (boring) or whores (after their men).

Too many ** there. Couldn't bring myself to type the word.

The name of whatsisname's dog in the Dambusters.

Everyone is so snippy on this forum. Was I really lecturing in a patronising way? I even wrote this to cover my back to avoid upsetting anyone:

'All this is just my experience and may be very different to yours.'

Cheers you have exceptionally rude acquaintances. Your experience really sucks. I'm sorry about that.

Everyone is so snippy on this forum. Was I really lecturing in a patronising way?

My apologies worserevived. You are quite right. It is a sensitive topic for me as you can tell - because I honestly feel like being single hampered my professional progress and interfered with my establishment of work networks.

It was the phrasing "If you start inviting people you will definitely be invited back." that wound me up - particularly the word definitely.

I thought that and went to great lengths to overcome the perceived obstacle with no joy.

But it was my sensitively and I'm sorry for the tone of my last post.

Cheers you have exceptionally rude acquaintances

Honestly, I don't think it's just me. It's just hard being a single woman in dinner party world once you get to a certain age. I'm sure plenty of these couples have since had people round for dinner since and it's just easier to have couples. Four is nicer than three. Then if you get to five, you need another single person. etc etc.

*it was my sensitivity

it isn't just you

I find it odd that married people are actually disagreeing with the perspective of many single women!

And............That's not true about inviting people and then them inviting you back. I think it's perceived as a bit radical for a single woman to go ahead and invite couples!

For my fortieth, I didn't have a party even thoguh I wanted one. I tentatively asked my married friends (who I know through the school) if they'd bring their OHs and was basically told no. so I thought, can you have a single sex party at forty!? It'd be like being 6 years old again!

In the end I had dinner with one man and one woman, not married to each other! just two friends of mine, not slaves to social convention! I want a party for my 50th though.

Two great posts from notrocketscience and springydaffs there at the top of this page (10)

I think it's perceived as a bit radical for a single woman to go ahead and invite couples!

I did it. People came but as I said I never got invited back. I gave up.

For my fortieth, I didn't have a party even thoguh I wanted one. I tentatively asked my married friends (who I know through the school) if they'd bring their OHs and was basically told no.

That sounds really weird to me. When you say "party" what do you mean? What had you said to your friends/how did you phrase it? And why did they say OH wouldn't come?

I think that if it's a proper party, people will come because

• when you get older, no one has proper parties once kids intervene so its a rare event and people do come
• everyone enjoys alcohol and food at other people's expense.

But to get that you need a proper "I'm paying" party and an interesting venue usually helps - that also gets people out the house. You also need to work on the law of party invites that decrees that of a 100% invitation list, around 25% - 33% will decline or can't make it.

Totally intrigued as to why your friends said their OHs wouldn't come?

It was the excruciating experience of my married 'friends' not turning up to my party (think 10-12 ppl rattling around my house, which should have been heaving) that drove me to therapy! All good for me in the long run but I have never invited anyone to anything ever again - I have a real block about it. It isn't until now I realise they didn't come bcs I was single (is it bcs I is single?). Phew. Ish!

Ime unless you're attached to a man ppl don't quite know where to place you: who/what is she? A rumour went around for quite a while that I was a lesbian: ah, that makes sense! I am not gay as it happens. It was a woman who eventually let slip what everyone had been thinking in order to make sense of precisely where I fit in: but youre a lesbian arent you (statement, not a question). At my astonished denial: Oh, we all thought you were.

So fucking insulting.

I find I generally get along better with couples than single women but I know when I was single I felt slightly awkward sitting with all the couples. They weren't rude or anything but without meaning to they tend to speak about things like marriage, kids so forth so I always felt a bit left out. This was through no fault of theirs but it was slightly annoying. Especially when they kept trying to fix me up with their single male work colleagues lol.

Springy This happened to a friend of mine last year. She threw a birthday party for herself at her home whilst her daughters where at their Dad's. Only 3 of us turned up and we were all women. The other 2 were married but had come alone. Hostess was mortified but we all stayed chatting until the wee hours so the evening was sort of salvaged.
The hostess is lovely, creative, sensitive and charming with loads of FB friends who merrily comment on her witty posts. I always wondered why so few came although lots had promised. Now I think I know why.

I'd like to be a fly on the wall to see how the convo went with those married couples, how they made the decision - who led it, the man or the woman? Both?

I almost darent type this..

If Bobby had been there, would Cilla have lain unconscious all those hours in the sun?
A single friend's dog disturbed a wasp's nest in her garden and my friend's torso and head were suddenly covered in stinging wasps. She stripped off, there in the garden, and somehow got into the house. She said 'I could have died in the garden - who would have found me?'

I appreciate this is the Bridget Jones version of eaten by alsations; and even if Booby/my friends husband had still been alive they could well be out. But something's WRONG that single women are so alone.

In my extended friendship group (most of whom work loosely in the same line of business which means one or other of a couple are often away for long periods or have to miss social events due to their schedule) we do still invite the friend whose partner is away. If it was something where my core group of couple friends were invited None of us would dream of leaving one of them out just because her DH couldn't come. In fact one of my good friends is married to an executive pilot who gets called away at short notice so often that she's more likely to turn up without him than with him! We all know this and just get on with it.

Two of the women are single and do get invited, and one of them is often drafted in to be the 'plus one' of my other friend whose DH is often away.

Another of my married friends has a single childless friend in her 50s and she is almost always invited to my friend's dinner parties even if it means odd numbers.

Sorry that made it sound like the single woman was only invited to plug the gap of the missing pilot! I didn't mean that, she gets invited anyway but it's a different friend who often takes her to things as her guest.

Springy is there any evidence that it would necessarily be any better for men though? Men could die alone eaten by wasps and Alsatians too! People have repeatedly said 'but this doesn't happen to men' but I'm not so sure about that. If the argument is that people generally feel more comfortable with other couples surely that excludes single people full stop, regardless of their sex?

Are we in danger of just assuming it's easier for men?

My DH once invited a (seemingly permanently) single work colleague for supper on his own, so there were just the three of us. He needed to come over because of something work related so DH thought it would be nice to make an evening of it. The man was friendly enough but pretty boring and a bit pompous and we never invited him back or saw him again socially.

My point is that he is probably single because he's boring and pompous, and he's probably not being invited out much because he's boring and pompous. Though I'm sure he probably believes he's not invited out much because he's single!

Not that I am suggesting that all single women are boring. I have met many fabulous, funny, clever, attractive women who are single not necessarily out of choice and I just don't understand why when they are clearly fabulous. Fine if they are happy with it, but often they are not. On the other hand with most single men past a certain age it's usually abundantly clear why they are still single.

Springydaffs, being thought a lesbian! Nobody has ever said it to my face, but I am sure that after thirty years of celebacy and mostly female friends, there are quite a few neighbours have assumed that I am lesbian too.

Loneliness - or even aloneness to be more precise - can make one 'boring' (blush). It can take a while to get into the rhythmn of a sociable mindframe. Dispiriting if one only gets the one chance, like an interview

Indeed, IsitMe, there is evidence that older single men, in particular, can suffer terribly from isolation as, generally, they are less able to forge links and friendships, often having no idea how to go about it. I think I heard of a government initiative to address precisely this.

Odd numbers at a dinner party? Oh help me god, that is so depressing (As if we don't already have enough hoops to jump through )

You all need to change your married friends! I think what you're describing is rudeness, insensitivity and self-absorption on the part of these people.

However, I have no doubt that you're all telling the truth because I also experience it as a married but childless woman with some couples - I get the endless conversations about 'life with the kids', the boring non-stories about what happened at X's drama club last week and what Y said after football practice, which no-one in their right mind would think was remotely interesting for public consumption. However, NOT ALL my married friends are like this (thank GOD!) Many manage to be parents AND interesting, rounded, exciting people too who talk about their kids with love and affection, but also about other stuff too.

Also, I'm married, and I go out with friends male and female, both together and singly. Where I know couples, I regularly meet both halves by themselves and together. And I don't think anyone is 'out to get their claws into' my DH! I am quite shy, but I'm pretty sure I'd want to be friends with all of you in real life if you thought I was worth the effort .

Can I just say I have never, ever, considered odd and even numbers as a factor in inviting friends to dinner. And I would like it on record that when DP offered to pick my - then single - BF and her mum (who has dementia) and drive them halfway across London my first thought was "oh how nice of him" not "how inappropriate, can't they call a taxi".

OP well done on bringing this thread back from the brink.
I've avoided it as I just thought Ugh! another attack that will only end in tears but you turned it around. Well done.
I've been a single woman for a long time now but it was my mother who pointed out the difference in perceptions.
My parents have had times when they have both been away and she often moaned (only to me) about the different ways they were treated by their circle of friends.
When my father was away for about 3 months my mother was ignored by friends, even when she was snowed in and couldn't leave the house for weeks no one called to see if she was okay or needed anything.
On the other hand when she came to stay with me for just 10 days, friends turned up with stews, invites and just to visit my Dad to check he was coping.
When she died everyone rallied around my Dad, which is great but having read your thread and thinking about her little moans it makes me sad to think that if he had died first it would have been a very different story for her. I'm almost glad she went first. No, actually, I am glad for her.
It's not ok.

I've spoken to y OH about this and he too, upon the breakdown of a previous long term relationship, suffered very similar. No longer invited out, losing friends, not because they were mutual friends, simply because he was now single. Many of the friends he lost were women. Perhaps they no longer felt 'safe' with a single guy? who knows but It seems it does happen the other way around too.

Thank you Cain but to be fair the credit for the fascinating and revealing discussion that's evolved on here is due mostly to the posters above ^ (and previous pages).

And like shovetheholly I reckon they'd be great to have as friends in RL.

Hand clap ladies and take a bow...

Notrocketscience DrMorbius That is appalling behaviour from your wife's "friends". Not only was she missing you but then to be excluded as well. Horrible. How did you feel about this? Did you believe her? Did you have any suggestions?

I obviously felt bad for her, especially as early on, she had two young children to look after. So it was work, kids, work. A little R and R would have been a welcome relief.

as it doesn't seem to happen to single males interesting isn't it - single males seem to need looking after, single women best avoided because of their predatory nature

This happened to me recently even though we are now 50. DW went on holiday with her sisters for a week. I got invited to join people for dinner on 4 nights. Two ironies to this are; when I am home, I do all the cooking. So I am hardly helpless and need looking after. The second is; I still work away one week per month and when I am away no one asks My DW around for dinner and I thought it was my winning charm .

We go in our local pub (hence people knowing DW was on holiday and then getting dinner invites), we have gone in for years. Through this time some couples have split etc. It's funny because if male part of the split couple turns up (alone) nobody bats an eyelid. If the female part of the split turns up, the reaction (mainly from women) is different.