Happily single and no threat to your man so why do you fear me?

[notrocketscience]

Reading another poster on the difficulties of a single woman mixing with men through mutual interests; rambling, sport, photography, studying, evening classes...
It got me wondering, and I've suffered from this most of my life as my interests do not include spas and shopping or TV soaps. I like men and have had serious relationships but I also like them as friends. I'm currently a very happy single mother and with no intention of starting another relationship. I'm not a cheater and will not encourage any taken man. Yet other women do see me as a threat and it hurts because I'm really not and it does impact on my very limited social life. Is being a single woman such a bad thing that everyone automatically thinks I must be hanging out for the first man to offer me a quick one? (And don't get me started on the number of mm friends of the Ex who thought exactly that).

I would see the rambling thread if I knew where it was

It was deleted Springydaffs for some fatuous claim to privacy. It was a shame because there was a lot of interesting material on there. Quite why the OPs posts (that weren't really that identifying) couldn't have been deleted or edited but leaving the rest of the thread is anyone's guess.

It was here:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2439065-Would-this-bother-you?

And the deletion message is

"This thread has been deleted at the OP's request. (We don't normally delete whole threads but we will do so when it is to protect a poster's privacy.)"

My DH was SAHD, I sometimes came home from work to a group of women from toddler group having coffee and cake at our house, it wasn't a problem as we had a relationship built on trust, it wasn't a problem when I had visits from motorbike mates who were mostly male.
Insecurities within a relationship leads to problems.

Effic Your honesty is refreshing and I don't know if I would have felt any different to you regards the ravishing young friend of your OH. (Mind you my Ex would not have bothered with the hot chocolate unless it was to pour it all over himself and have the naked supermodels lick it off...)

You raise an interesting dilemma, can a straight male/ female friendship be completely non sexual? I want to think so but is it true? I know a man who claims he has not slept with his wife for several years. She is a 2nd wife and believes he cheated on her. They sleep separately but appear to be great friends. She has a very close male friend (married), the two couples socialise, go on holiday ect but these two are inseparable and often go clubbing together on their own (having more energy than the OHs). Gossip has it they are more than friends. Their OHs have discussed it but don't think it is true. I suppose my "rambling" (sorry couldn't resist) point is no one is 100% sure.

You make me hold up my hand and admit something I'm ashamed of feeling. I'm not comfortable being friends with a lesbian female. How pathetic is that. Why on earth not? Prejudices run deep don't they. Oh dear....

Loathing - on the rambling thread, it was absolutely the wives saying 'no' but I think that was the context of the thread, if it was dadsnet and it had just been the other way round, with a husband as the op, I think equal amounts the husbands would be have been posting saying 'no.' With regards to the close friendship thing....if a married women had a close friendship with a single man, I think the 'threat' felt by 'most' husbands would be equally balanced percentage wise with 'most' wives.

I do think that is a separate issue to the insanity you and other have described eg not inviting single women to a party though! Or to other mixed group things.... But I guess its a logical extrapolation of my feeling of 'threat' that others take to what I would consider an extreme but them not?

Notrocket - I also want (these days since meeting partner, I have/need) to believe it is true that men & women can be close friends without physical intimacy being inevitable or at least considered? I don't know - my partner says yes absolutely (he would, wouldn't he!) and points to the fact that his female friend and he were I fact both single after his divorce (she isn't married) and so if they wanted to get together they could have then. He maintains he isn't sexually attracted to her and vice versa. Seems barking when she looks like bloody Greta Garbo though! If she was gay, I think I would have far less of a problem with it? How illogical is that? Especially as it is the emotional intimacy that I think bothers me the most? Or does it, if her being gay would make a difference. Bleh - it's a bloody minefield this !

Oh OP!
As a single woman I detest these threads for being so devisive.
All you really need to do is put married men in the 'friend zone'.
It's not that surprising or astonishing that the signals you give out effect the signals you get back from both men and women.

No.1 If a man persists in the face of 'no encouragement whatsoever' then he is a brazen slut and I wouldn't go there with yours.

No.2 If a woman distrusts me in the face of 'no encouragement whatsoever' then I suspect there are trust (probably with good reason, see No. 1)issues and I wouldn't go there with yours.

*divisive

I totally agree with you Cain!

My DH was SAHD, I sometimes came home from work to a group of women from toddler group having coffee and cake at our house, it wasn't a problem as we had a relationship built on trust, it wasn't a problem when I had visits from motorbike mates who were mostly male.
Insecurities within a relationship leads to problems.

Now this is a very interesting comparison. You didn't mind because there was a group of women but how would you have felt if he's struck up a close bond with one woman and they saw a great deal of one another when you were not present at all? And they had plenty of access to both your homes while both you and her partner were at work? And what is she didn't have a partner?

Of course SAHDs need company and innocent distraction just like SAHMs do and on the balance of probability it is most likely that the other SAHPs he is likely to meet will be women unless he deliberately goes out of his way to seek only SAHD friends.

We can all rationalise that there is not an automatic threat or a dodgy ulterior motive in a friendship like this and it will very much driven by having small children in common. BUT how many of of can honestly say hand on heart we wouldn't start to feel pangs of irritation, jealousy and insecurity if they spend a lot of time together in one another's homes on a one to one basis? Not many, I'm sure.

I have a slightly different perspective I guess, because DH has cheated with a much younger single woman before. I thought he did the running in this case, but his work colleagues tell me actually she was a divorcee who cheated on her exDH, who made a play for married men in the office and he was just one of many.

It may seem counter intuitive but I now have less problem with him being friends with single women than I did before. It's almost like I'm testing him to find an excuse for throwing him out. The amateur shrinks will have a field day with that one

OP, in response with your original mail I have no problem with single women around DH. I certainly don't fear them. I don't dislike them. If one is that desperate to take on a married man with two kids, a whole load of baggage ad an ex-wife who is very savvy about divorce law, well, their picnic. I suspect it wouldn't be a very relaxing one

I’m newly single and am careful a round my friend’s husbands, because it’s vital I keep my friends. I’m a bit paranoid because H left for OW and I can see the devastation it caused.

I could have written this 10 years ago. I’m now happily remarried but I’m still very careful around couples – I will always pursue a friendship with the woman in preference to the man. I don’t mean that I cold-shoulder the man, but there’s no way I’d be texting him or having 1-2-1 meet ups.

Skates it is not exhausting at all being me, though it must be exhausting being you when you go around targeting people for having an opinion.

I've never hit anyone for no reason. I don't stand for shit at the end of the day. I gave one example were I got into a fight with my ohs ex a situation in which you were not present and others who know me around there all commented on how she had been antagonising me all night and deserved it. They had also had issues with her.

You say I love drama yet funnily enough you and your tag team are the ones who keep picking on my posts so I think that says it all really. I certainly haven't picked on anyone on here for there opinions and quoted them looking to twist their words because i'm a nice person.

I was one of the first who had anything nice to say about notrocket when she first came on and people were having a go at her making out she's something she isn't. She's nice and so am I. And i'm pretty sure she doesn't care what a bunch of strangers think about her social life just as I don't either. We all have different lives and different views, deal with it or sod off because you're negative snipes are not achieving anything!

I have a similar situation to Effic. But it's also completely different!

My dh isn't a blokey bloke if you know what I mean? He's quite sensitive and sweet. Not what you'd call a manly man (not camp though, I know some straight men who are incredibly camp!) But more like a sweet, geeky man, who's more interested in star gazing than football or going to an art gallery than the pub. I guess, cultural (?) Is the word, but he's not pretentious!

My dh has a great female friend, who he's known since high school. She is incredibly successful in her work and has an exciting but stressful job. I know for a fact that she pursues married men - she's just ended a relationship with a man who left his wife for her (he was an abusive arse and both she and the ex-wife are much better off without the bastard) to date another married man. She is a messed up individual, who I wish would meet someone nice who respects and loves her, but unfortunately she needs serious counselling/psychotherapy before she does this. It's truly sad.

I do not however have any qualms about the friendship my dh and she share. Not because I'm such a big hearted person or because I'm a walk-over but because even before my dh and I first got together (we had known each other for a long long time as friends way before getting together) I asked him how he felt about her. His answer was "it would be gross, like sleeping with my sister or something!" - I expect she feels the same about him - for them, they're more like siblings. They have had ample opportunity to get together, and haven't. I trust them both. We're even talking about going on holiday together next year (with a newly single male friend and his dd as well).

I have asked dh about his other single female friends, and he's always said "we're friends, that's it. They don't see me like that, and I don't see them like that" - these are women he worked with years ago in a bar who he just had fun with. When I finally met them, I actually really liked both women an awful lot! I didn't feel threatened by them in the slightest.

I might have done if they'd flirted, but they didn't. I might have felt threatened if I didn't trust him implicitly.

I've spoken to him about cheating, and his stance is that he'd never do it as he saw first hand how his father's affairs affected his mother. So, I trust him completely.

Skates You are the only one coming across as confrontational and I do suggest that you stop trying to target me on here and other threats as in future I shall be reporting posts made to purely target me. Thanks.

This thread is so interesting.

I'm not included on the guest list with others to holiday homes as part of a house group

Springydaffs - this was absolutely my experience before I got married; it changed almost overnight.

What still really frustrates me about it (and on behalf of all other single women in my area of work) is that a lot of those sorts of invitations are in a professional context. It's a MASSIVE networking opportunity to build stronger social connections outside the work environment.

I used to really resent the fact I was deprived of these opportunities - which in a male dominated area of work especially matter to women. Although now "I'm alright Jack!", I still feel it for the few other single women I know trying to forge ahead. I now how much I resented it and if I'm really honest, felt and still feel quite bitter about.

It's really galling seeing people less fun and less good at their job than you that you swan off to some chateau in the south of france with major work contacts - getting the invite simply because they are married or have a long term partner. The same thing also applies to big dinner parties.

The single guys got invited too btw.

I didn't say you made any threats though you and others have been nit-picking at my posts at least it feels that way and certainly feels as though you have an issue with me of some kind for a reason that isn't apparent to me.

I don't know how you have come to the conclusion that I have been involved with so many conflicts please do tell me what your idea of many conflicts is and what you mean by this. Other people have mentioned having issues with feeling uncomfortable around some women and I don't see them being targeted for stating their experiences.

I stated a time I got into a fight yes, I found it perfectly acceptable as she was antagonising me and in my face. I don't tolerate others in my personal space pushing my buttons.

I stated a time were I walked away because someone made a nasty comment so I don't see how waking away is confrontational and I stated a time that I was in school and a girl spat at me and was bullying my friends so we got into a fight. That is me and i'm proud that I stood up to her and so was everyone else that had been a victim of her abuse.

If you would happily walk away from those who in your space or who bully then good on you but please don't speak for everyone else when you say that my reactions were uncalled for because not everyone has the same views as you, some yes but not all.

I'm not usually one for reporting things however I do feel upset and singled out by a few posters. Whether anything gets done about it is by the by really. Do you think i'm also being confrontational by reporting cyber bullying or should I put up with it?

Nobody else here would stand for constantly having their posts made out to be unwelcome and whilst I appreciate that you don't agree with some of my posts I would rather you let me have my say and if you disagree then that's fine but please don't continue to quote everything I say as it does come across then as bullying.

And still on this topic can you tell how much it still is like a thorn in my side I had periodic attacks of low self-confidence/personal doubt about this stuff.

I would have mental conversations with myself like this about never being invited on these holiday/mini-breaks in the palatial holiday homes/country houses:

• Is it me? Don't they/he/she like me? Am I boring? Did I do something rude/embarrassing one time when drunk that I don't remember? Do I just not fit in?
• No. It can't be that can it. I'm not boring. And I always get on well with [Mr X/Mrs Y/Mr X's wife].
• Or do I?
• How come the new boy Mr Z has been invited? Isn't he single? Maybe he's in line for promotion?
• They must all hate me. They love Mr Z though.
• Don't be stupid. You are a nice charming person and good at your job.
• But you never get invited. Maybe Mrs X thinks you will seduce Mr X and are a scarlet woman.
• Everyone hates me. I know they do.

BOOM! HEAD EXPLODES!

Yes, Cheersmedea and springydaffs. I find that a husband any husband would open doors for me. I'd be included in things where people might over over my name (metaphorically). A husband would just change the hover to a click.

It's all very well for married posters (and luckily I'm really heartened to see that the majority of married posters GET it, they don't think it's all in our heads, are all our own fault, or all of our own making, it seems like the vast majority get it. Even if they're not going to move heaven and earth to change things. Why would they? I get that too. But unfortunately it is still 'our loss'.

Although maybe maybe it's going to change? As my children get older I might find more freedom. My children aren't babies but they're not yet old enough for me to go off and leave them.

Ha! Maybe I'm getting an inkling into why and how Male Escorts get work...

Not going there though!

Ha yes. To be convincing, I would like to interview some ordinary candidates. No model types. I'd like them to be clean and I'd like them to be able to string a sentence together and not take themselves too seriously. I wouldn't want them to throw in sex at the end of the evening but if they could throw in gardening, I'd pay extra

Cheersmedea! oh me too!

Am I boring?!

No, I really don't think so! I'm good humoured, aware, funny, a good listener. People seem to enjoy my company when I'm with them! I don't have the problem my x used to have, that people would disappear to the toilet when they were talking to him and not reappear.

Nope. We could analyse it all day and it boils down to this I think. We can come out to play during the week and people are glad we've come along, what with us being such good company n all, but at the weekend, when the husbands come out, it's like squares pegs in round holes or summit.

Don't analyse it any more.

It's like that film with that woman out of Will and Grace in. The Wedding Date? or something like that?

When I was single, if I could have found a nice gentleman who would accompany me to stuff as a faux bf, I would have been delighted.

I think the Victorians used to call it "a walker".

The married ladies are missing out on some extra income here.

Hire out your OH as an escort to a single purely for the event (and maybe a spot of gardening or shelf putting up) and come home afterwards to his loving wife. only if you trust him not to confuse business with pleasure

2 satisfied women. What more could a man want?