Happily single and no threat to your man so why do you fear me?

[notrocketscience]

Reading another poster on the difficulties of a single woman mixing with men through mutual interests; rambling, sport, photography, studying, evening classes...
It got me wondering, and I've suffered from this most of my life as my interests do not include spas and shopping or TV soaps. I like men and have had serious relationships but I also like them as friends. I'm currently a very happy single mother and with no intention of starting another relationship. I'm not a cheater and will not encourage any taken man. Yet other women do see me as a threat and it hurts because I'm really not and it does impact on my very limited social life. Is being a single woman such a bad thing that everyone automatically thinks I must be hanging out for the first man to offer me a quick one? (And don't get me started on the number of mm friends of the Ex who thought exactly that).

Ok, maybe this will help. The number of friend I have who are part of a couple not including family. 2 (4 if you count their partners) number of single friends I have 12 or so.

Now I am in a relationship, less than a year, single for the previous 8, the number of couple friends is increasing. The OH and I live in different towns atm, we can't see each other as much. Many of these new friendships have formed just through me and the OH hasn't met them yet.

I don't think that is a coincidence because in the last 9 months my personality hasn't changed, neither have my hobbies. I am still out going, talkative, still wear the same clothes. The only change is I now have a plus one.

A few more examples in those 8 years of being treated badly just for daring to be happy and single.

• meeting up with an old friend who moved away from the town I now live in. He visited with his children. We met up to take both our children to the park. I gave him an open invite to come over for lunch the next day (lots of other people were coming). His wife kicked off and forbade him to visit for lunch because I was single.

-Being told I could not go to a gig by now SIL. I had bought tickets for the gig months ahead before the stag was even planned. It wasn't like I was going to crash the stag and do 'crazy single lady stuff'. This instance I told her to jog on and went anyway. It was a gig not a private party.

• The countless parties for kids I have not been invited to even though I have a child.

-The chap who wouldn't let his fiancée (my closest friend) out with single girls 'because they are a bad influence' Apparently my single status meant my knickers were permanently round my ankles and it was an incredibly contagious affliction

• The married friend I have who will not let her husband go to work events without her because she is suspicious of any woman. She has never left me alone with her him or let him drop me home If I have needed a lift.

I really wish I could say things have stayed the same since meeting the OH and If it had I would hold my hands up and go 'yep, clearly its my personality, fine. I can handle that' but the truth is it isn't me.

Hate to bring it up but blimey IsitMe you went to all that trouble to trash a poster. I'd have to say it IS you. arf.

I make sure all my friends are single now - or most. I have a few married/coupled friends and even a few married couples who are both my friends (rare). I can't count the number of husbands who don't like their wives being friends with me. Dispiriting. So I just don't bother. I want to have a good time and I cba with any aggro of any kind. Sadly, being single for a long time has made me uber independent - there are so few places I fit in as a single woman. We're quite niche!. Which is odd bcs I'm quite conformist in a way largely due to fear - I would've loved the conventional set-up but it wasn't to be, I had a go but it was a disaster. I hate to say that missing that chance often ends up with missing the boat entirely and I feel that keenly when I see couples who have managed the long haul. To be isolated from enjoying and sharing, as a visitor, the immense riches and comfort afforded to established couples (I don't mean just money, either) is difficult. I'm not included on the guest list with others to holiday homes as part of a house group eg.

That said I was part of the cast in fact leading lady in a production and when the producer threw a party and didn't invite me I called her and asked her why I hadn't been invited as I was one of the crew and we'd been working together for months: was it bcs I'm single? She spluttered a bit and made excuses lies and I went to the party to prove a point but you could hear the screech of social suicide above the music and it was the very end for me with them - both ways.

The pisser is their parties are AMAZING. As are their holiday homes .

Get your own holiday home I hear you say, invite all them cool couples and be a cool, single sexless host. Sadly, divorce has made my finances not particularly robust.

Throw your own party? Did that, they didn't come.

Sadly, being single for a long time has made me uber independent - there are so few places I fit in as a single woman. We're quite niche!. Which is odd bcs I'm quite conformist in a way largely due to fear

Springydaffs I hear ya! Me too. I get this totally.

I'm not included on the guest list with others to holiday homes as part of a house group

+1 to that.

That said I was part of the cast in fact leading lady in a production and when the producer threw a party and didn't invite me I called her and asked her why I hadn't been invited as I was one of the crew and we'd been working together for months: was it bcs I'm single? She spluttered a bit and made excuses lies and I went to the party to prove a point but you could hear the screech of social suicide above the music and it was the very end for me with them - both ways.

That is absolutely terrible. How awful. Good on you for calling her out. This thread is really depressing me. The Rambling Thread really depressed me.

I've had lots of experiences like this type of thing and it makes me realise that actually I'm not alone and if you are single past a certain age, your social scope is really limited. I can see why you would choose to strive to make all your friends single.

What I find upseting is that women are so blinkered about it. One poster insert another word of your choice on the rambling thread posted something like "tough if you are single. I don't care. I wouldn't let my husband do xyz and if single women lose out, so what?" All I could think was well good luck to you when you get divorced or are cheated on as is inevitable if you treat your husband like that or are widowed - and you would welcome the sort of social support and integration that is so lacking in couple society for single women.

My life is great most of the time - but a lot of that is that I can afford to entertain myself, do what I want and have the time, health and money to seek out companions. I can see that the long term future as an aging single woman - with reducing financial capacity, health and access to wider net of people - is pretty dire.

betty and springy Why anyone would exclude two interesting, charming and clearly capable women is a mystery and a damn shame. I'd like to say defiantly it was "their loss" except it isn't is it. You're the ones left out.

Maybe, if this thread makes just one person think a little about that single woman standing over there and perhaps cut her a little slack, the world might start to be a tiny bit better for all of us, married or not.

^ include self in that post. How dare people treat you this way!

I'd like to say defiantly it was "their loss" except it isn't is it. You're the ones left out

Ain't that the truth? Thanks notrocket.

Sorry -that sounded sarcastic. They were two separate comments - 1) thanks for your supportive post and 2) ain't that the truth about your observation that we are left out and it isn't actually their loss. It's ours.

if this thread makes just one person think a little about that single woman standing over there

Unfortunately, the single woman isn't standing over there because she wasn't fucking invited in the first place.

ha ha! yes, that's true. She wasn't even invited. She's not at the bar eyeing up 'your man'. she's at home, maybe looking at the event on fb

This thread has been fascinating. I think I've been guilty of quite a few of these behaviours over the years - at 18 I was certainly trying too hard to be the cool girl, but unfortunately didn't have the self-awareness to even realise it and genuinely believed that I liked men better than women. Then I got married and ended up excluding single people - not purposely but again because of a lack of self awareness.

I then went through some life-changing experiences over a number of years that were very hard at times but were ultimately the making of me and taught me some valuable lessons through self-reflection. During that time i have been the single woman.

I am now in the position of being in a stable LTR with a man who is as happy for me to have male friends as I am for him to have female friends (i.e. it's not an issue) and we both have single friends of both genders who we regularly see and invite round. I quite often leave my best friend (single female) in the company of DP while I'm busy.

This thread has got me thinking too. There are obviously millions of single people but we're not as easily connected as married people. Even though I think, we're only slightly in the minority we're kind of made to feel as though we're a tiny minority. I think it's because couples have power. One woman invites one other woman to dinner and they bring their husbands, and it's an 'event'. It really is just doubling your power, your presence. Two for the price of one.

I think I'm going to try and do OLD within the next year, just to make single male friends. If that is possible. I know OLD brings out the worst in men. But I will work on my profile to make me as UNappealing as possible to men just after a shag.

Why are single men never perceived to be a threat!? Is it because women do the inviting? Women do the planning? Women organise the social events and they've no objection to the presence of an extra man in their midst.

I'm independent, financially, practically, but sometimes, occasionally I feel lonely, and baffled as to how I ended up institutionally single.

she's at home, maybe looking at the event on fb

Excuse me?? She so is NOT.

self change your nn do , it really ain't so bad at ALL. Yes it's been a tough road but, hey, I'm there. You cut your cloth.

I have the greatest time - genuinely - and I'm quite poor. I have such a good time I keep quiet about it bcs I know others would be jealous I can do wtf I like. That was challenging at first, it's taken me a while to grow into luxuriant freedom, but I now enjoy myself so much I could be sick sometimes.

I guard my freedom re I don't ogle at the riches I don't have - why would I? I'm not being brave here, either - this is genuine and hard won. I may have - still do - hanker after convention sometimes but very few achieve the dream, anyway. I didn't get it and that's that.

I tell you, we have it good if we look at it the right way.

I worked at a dead cool place once and there was this impossibly cool central clique. All us non-cliques dripped about feeling Left Out. Sometimes one of us would get an invite to a sickening cool clique event, delivered with absurd pomp to which we curtsied with craven gratitude but it was clear we were being thrown crumbs to keep us firmly outside.

Eventually, one of us (coy) decided to buck the trend and set up some non-clique events. We took off! The clique was astonished we weren't desperate to be 'in' [we were] and we could have a good time all by our uncool own. It popped the whole silliness. We were young...

Why are single men never perceived to be a threat!? Is it because women do the inviting? Women do the planning?

I think that this is basically why. The single man is no threat to the woman - in fact it is to her advantage to get her husband's single guy friends on side so they don't lead him astray in atagnosism to her. Plus a little bit of flirting makes her feel good and attractive, is safe because of her DH and is a way of maybe reminding him that his buddies fancy her too.

He is no threat to her and often an advantage.

*Antagonism.

I never had any problem being around men when I was married, however when my DH died it all changed, I toyed with the idea of a teeshirt that said, widowed not desperate, I'd managed to avoid a sexual relationship with these blokes for many years, but suddenly I was not to be trusted, I made new friends.

however when my DH died it all changed, I toyed with the idea of a teeshirt that said, widowed not desperate, I'd managed to avoid a sexual relationship with these blokes for many years, but suddenly I was not to be trusted, I made new friends.

Sorry to hear that FrankTurner. I hope whoever wrote that bitchy comment on the rambling thread about not caring about how single women lost out reads this!

This bears out everything that a lot of people have been saying and crystalises it so perfectly - with a H and after a H.

Springydaffs, I have a good life too tbh. I've no violin out. I'm independent and I have a few really good friends, but i often do see things on fb, I know all the people, but I wasn't invited!

We do have it good though. Occasionally I'm lonely but not even half as often as I used to think 'omg, if only I had a place of my own' when I was with my x.

selfloathing yes...... :-/ in a nutshell.

hi notrocket
.
It's a fascinating topic you've raised - I read the camping /rambling thread too and you are right - unlike the majority on this thread who apparently have no problem with their partners being close friends with a single woman - the overwhelming consensus was that they wouldn't 'allow' it.

My only disagreement (? Wrong word?) addition would be though that I don't think this is an issue for women with their husband only. In my experience (sorry to disagree with loathing et al.) I think that both genders are equally uneasy with this issue. A pp put a list of questions up asking couples to think about you last did things certain events including single females but I think that it is equally valid and truthful to swap the hypothetical single woman in those scenarios for men and I suspect the answers would be similar.

As for me, I don't know why it is like it is but I think anyone trying to pretend this issue of can a man & woman ever be really close friends and it not affect their relationship with their partners (single or not?) is an interesting one and one I have no answer for. (The other examples on here - not inviting someone to a party or 'letting their partners out for a night out with single people are just barking mad and controlling loonies IMO) But your original thread was about single women developing friendships with married men.

Why/ how do I choose my female friends? Because I like them, enjoy their company, probably have the same or similar values to them even if we are dissimilar in other more superficial personality traits. What makes them close friends? Probably shared experiences, trust and a bond that grows into a type of intimacy. What stops that intimacy being expressed physically? I'm not a lesbian and am not physically attracted to women. is that the difference? That in developing a close friendship between a women and a man, there is a certain intimacy that develops that's feels like 'cheating'? There are always lots of threads on here about emotional affairs - I'm never quite sure what this term means but is that the fear?

Trust gets mentioned a lot but speaking purely for myself, I am a strong independent woman with a great job, fab group of friends and a partner who I would happily throw into a brothel of naked supermodels and know absolutely that he'd flap about finding them some comfy clothes to wear, make them a hot chocolate and have a good natter with them all about whatever! he often goes out in mixed groups or on holidays / weekends away with mixed groups or 'with the boys' and I don't have a seconds doubt BUT BUT he has a close female friend from before we met. She has known him longer, supported him through his shitty divorce & the death of his mother and she's Younger than me & prettier than me and I HATE that they are friends and HATE every moment that he spends with her. I hide it because I know how I feel is wrong but it is how I feel and I can't explain it. I feel the 'threat'
Sorry very long and rambling (no pun intended!) but just wanted to put my thoughts to you rocket x

In my experience (sorry to disagree with loathing et al.) I think that both genders are equally uneasy with this issue.

Even if that is right, and I don't agree, I still think that the motivating force is the wife's attitude. ie. the H says "I won't do xyz [fill in as appropriate - ask my new female cycling buddy if she wants to go on a long training ride at the weekend/encourage single female colleague to come round for dinner/go camping or rambling with women and so on] because he knows his wife will disapprove and/or "won't allow it" (see the rambling thread numerous comments).

I would see the rambling thread if I knew where it was

Thanks self, I had sympathy shag offers, but I was widowed, not desperate, I lost my husband, NOT my morals.
I'm still a threat to some people, sad but true. I really don't want someone else's husband.

Thank you for posting this Effic I think this is a very brave thing to admit and really helpful in the context of this discussion. It shows that women do feel like this and the single women complaining of this kind of experience aren't all bat-shit crazy weirdos who have completely invented that some women feel they are a threat.

She has known him longer, supported him through his shitty divorce & the death of his mother and she's Younger than me & prettier than me and I HATE that they are friends and HATE every moment that he spends with her. I hide it because I know how I feel is wrong but it is how I feel and I can't explain it. I feel the 'threat

I agree, it's the wives who are the driving forces.

Also, I think it's two different things to feel a kind of jealousy for an attractive younger woman your partner was close to/is close to still , and just random single women who are merely acquaintances, and nothing to your partner at all!

I didn't read the camping thread. Were there loads of married women saying 'don't trust the single women'. I think I'm glad I didn't read it!