Happily single and no threat to your man so why do you fear me?

[notrocketscience]

Reading another poster on the difficulties of a single woman mixing with men through mutual interests; rambling, sport, photography, studying, evening classes...
It got me wondering, and I've suffered from this most of my life as my interests do not include spas and shopping or TV soaps. I like men and have had serious relationships but I also like them as friends. I'm currently a very happy single mother and with no intention of starting another relationship. I'm not a cheater and will not encourage any taken man. Yet other women do see me as a threat and it hurts because I'm really not and it does impact on my very limited social life. Is being a single woman such a bad thing that everyone automatically thinks I must be hanging out for the first man to offer me a quick one? (And don't get me started on the number of mm friends of the Ex who thought exactly that).

Yeah, us old crocks

grandmaster That's what we were saying only not quite so bluntly. Under 35 it is more accepted but over that age something shifts. Maybe it's that old Victorian shame lingering on.
It would be pleasing to think your generation will change this but somehow I doubt it. Like I said earlier, you can't solve a problem you are not aware of.

I have very few under 35 friends without children. I have very few under 25 friends without children thinking about it. Single parents heavily outnumber married couples. I know about 20% married couples , 40% cohabiting parents, 40% single parents.

I am over 40 and I see no shame in women of any age being single. I honestly think a lot of the views on here about shame, disgrace, fear of not being able to hold onto a man are not those held by society, but perceived views.

fireblade I did separate from my DH when (oh the irony) he had an affair with a singe women. I didn't feel shame, disgrace, or fear just incredible sadness at the way things had ended. Married friends were very supportive and inclusive. I obviously live in a nice community.

Have any of the single women on here considered that married ones may at some level envy them? Single women live longer than married ones for example. There is a reason for that. I'm not being patronising, it is a reality. When I was separated I started to really come out of myself and enjoy life again. That isn't an uncommon reaction.

Springy people stay in abusive marriages for very complex reasons. Divorce is common place and does not have the stigma it once did. Fear is a big one. Fear of what their DH will do if they try to leave, fear of having to manage on their own after years of financial or emotional dependence. Love is also a factor. Sometimes women accept abuse because they love the man and hope he will change. It's very complicated and I am not an expert in this field but many more qualified people on here could discuss this at length.

worse You make valid and interesting points. I wholeheartedly agree with your observation of enjoying life again after separation.

I just throw one thing out at you; Surely all views held by society are perceived views? As individuals I would argue we filter everything through our perceptions and these are shaped by our experiences.

Therefore if a percentage of the population are experiencing a similar thing how can the other percentage claim this is not a view held by society? Because it is outside our individual experience does not mean a view held by others is false.

I'll give an example, I've never experienced racism but I believe it exists.

(I need a coffee for all this brain work! May I just say I'm loving all these posts and the challenges you are making, so thank you).

grandmaster But the point is we are talking about the over 35 age group. No one has commented about any exclusions felt by singletons in the generations below this age.

This exclusion we are discussing is also not about single mums but all women regardless of having children or not. It's great that clearly there seems to be no problem in your social circle and long may it continue but it does not appear true for us older ones. Perhaps it is because the days of clubbing and drinking no longer appeal so much (if they ever did?).

I hope you don't feel I am disrespecting your opinions in any way.

What about my parents/gps generation. My nan in law has been single since her 30s. She had my husbands mum on a one night stand and she has more friends than anyone, and is now in her 80s.

I definitely don't see why in your 40s with 3 children means you can't meet a new partner. That is absolutely baffling lots of people get remarried or live with others with children from previous relationships. This post genuinely sounds like it is from the 40s.

I don't think the martial status is relevant at all.
The woman who targeted my sister's DH was married at the time. (And targeted is the correct word, he was not the only one, it was very blatant and her DH has single female friends whom my sis has no issue with.

Yes lots of people re-marry in their 40s and beyond but we are talking about the happy to remain single woman who just wants to be included and not to be seen as predatory by others.

Some of us genuinely don't want a partner anymore and the very fact I am having to say this does indicate a widespread belief that "a single woman must be in want of a man". Or, as another poster found, she is assumed to be a lesbian.

Plenty of women are single as I said. My nan in law is out every day as she is single, whereas my nan on the other side is lonely as her dh died and she doesn't get out there in same way. It is attitude and confidence levels not marital status

I found when I was first separated I was allowed a grieving time for a few months before people I knew mentioned the OLD sites and any man they might know who was single.

To my horror, a good friend took it upon herself to set up a profile for me on Match.com. I was both outraged and hurt and felt incredibly insecure. To cap it all, she is not particularly happy within her marriage so why did she feel the need to push me back into a partnership. On some level she must feel "sorry" for me or I make it awkward for her social gatherings.

It was probably misplaced help. I think the way you are thinking is really holding you back, as I said marriage is not even popular these days.

Grand It sounds as though your Nan in law has been single since her 30s but has forged ahead and made a good life for herself. She sounds feisty and fun.

Your Nan, on the other hand, is a widow and finds herself lonely and without a social circle. Have you spoken to her about her feelings and why she does not feel like mixing? You mention confidence. It could be she is experiencing exactly what previous posters have talked about.

Everyone thinks she is autistic as we have a lot of it in our family. I don't think she is that bothered about mixing. The neighbours invite her to parties and gatherings all the time. It isn't really her thing she likes staying in and pursuing her interests. The opportunities are definitely there but not everyone is into that kind of thing.

I am an expert in that field, worse. 20 years standing.

You do indeed live in a lovely community. It is not the norm.

Grand, by 'married' I think we are referring to couples, married or not.

Yeah so 60/40 hardly that much of a difference

I don't live by my nan we live 400 miles apart

You'd think eh grand

There is a HUGE difference. Not in your community, obvs; but generally YES.

I don't agree that marriage is rare these days grand. I'm 28 and I know tons of people my age who have got married this year. I know lots of others who are engaged. I think it very much depends on where you live. Somewhere like London it is probably a lot less common but I'm constantly being bombarded with wedding photos on Facebook. Being long term single at my age is very much an anomaly where I am. Which is rather depressing as I'm hardly old.

I'm not really qualified to talk about this either but from my own experiences leaving an abusive relationship is very hard, and I didn't even live with the guy. I can't imagine how hard it must be if you have children and/or are married. In my case, I didn't even recognise it as abuse. I still find it very hard to recognise it as abuse and I'm not convinced it was. But he was certainly very manipulative and could be controlling. When I first left him, he threatened suicide amongst other things (violence against a male friend of mine being one if I didn't do something sexually to him that I originally said no to). He was very good at making me apologise for everything. It wasn't a fear of being single that kept me with him but I worried that I couldn't cope emotionally without him. We were very co-dependent and he could be very sweet, charming, always professed his undying love for me etc.

The terrible thing is, and sadly I don't think this is that unusual, but my own family pressured me to stay with him. I have heard similar from women in abusive relationships. Because they don't see the side of him that we know. My sister kept saying "but he's so nice to you." They made excuses for his behaviour. My own mother very kindly said to me I'm not the kind of person who attracts lots of men so it would be a long time before I met anyone else so I'd be better off staying with him. She hates me being single, is desperate for me to be coupled up. I know she just wants me to be happy and because her marriage makes her happy, it must be the same for everybody else. Apparently me being single will make my life worse than staying with a man who is potentially violent (not to me, but to others). I found that very insulting. I've forgiven her for it and she has acknowledged since then that our relationship was unhealthy so I think she had her rose tinted "he's so lovely and wonderful" glasses on when she said that. And I have got the "you're pretty and nice, why haven't you got a boyfriend" comments. People can't fathom that I might just not want one.

I do not know why some people do that pandora. I have a friend that we are begging to see the light as her partner is very controlling. She makes excuses for him all the time. You are making the right choice, single is definitely preferable.

Notrocketscience, I think as you are going in to situations with this mindset then your experiences are confirming your beliefs. Whether married, cohabiting or single not everyone is going to be a friend you see all the time, and it is trial and error.

The more you get out there with a positive attitude the more opportunities you will meet like minded individuals.

Cheers maybe the guy with the chateau was better friends with the man who'd worked with him for 5 minutes than he was with you. Maybe he just didn't want to spend time on holiday with you?

I think it's telling that those of you who think that married women see you as a threat are quick to stereotype other women as bitchy, gossips and only enjoying activities such as spas, shopping and watching soaps. You don't seem to like women very much. Maybe that comes across.

If you're unable to have deep and meaningful conversations with your female friends then they're not your friends. Simple. It's nothing to do with the fact that they're women.

It's evidence that makes me, and many on this thread, recognise these patterns. We're not going into it expecting it, we've discovered it to be the case, over and over - sometimes years later the realisation dawns; or, in the case of the people who didn't turn up to my party, decades later. Also the sudden cessation of mutual childcare - which I put down to allsorts, for years not being able to fathom why it had happened.

It still surprises me. I still don't see it coming and each time I find it confusing as I don't expect it. Why would I? It makes no sense.

I feel rather pissed off that people seem to be posting who haven't experienced this firsthand but assume they're knowledgeable because of what they've seen. eg you don't ask a white person if an area/town is racist, you ask a black/non-white person. Yous who are insisting singles are not marginalised, ask your single friends how it is for them, not how you think it is for them. yy some of you may get the answer you're expecting (eg grand) but this is unusual. It is not the norm.

The spas etc stuff has been covered, Aggie: op has acknowledged she expressed herself clumsily. But I'll stick my neck out here and say my experiences were that spas were a right of passage at the time I experienced conclusive and clear marginalisation from women groups. It's true I don't like spas - can't think of anything worse tbf - etc but my experiences of trying to get in with women in my social group were entirely frustrated - sometimes because I didn't have the money to go to like spas but mostly because they couldn't figure out who I was, what I stood for, because I didn't have a partner. They couldn't relate to me, in short. Their response to me was very clear that they considered me - what I did, and didn't, stand for - a threat. Possibly a passive threat ie they didn't know why I was suddenly 'out', were not self-aware enough to acknowledge they treated me differently. I can say that in hindsight but at the time I couldn't work out what was going on - of course I took it that I just wasn't likeable and agonised about what about me wasn't likeable; what was I getting wrong? I had been popular and well-liked when I was in a couple but it took me a long time to see that, to see that things changed dramatically when I became single. BECAUSE I became single, more to the point: I was suddenly out, suddenly non-U.

Anxious Aggie

Cheers maybe the guy with the chateau was better friends with the man who'd worked with him for 5 minutes than he was with you. Maybe he just didn't want to spend time on holiday with you?

So why was I been invited after I got married? He didn't know my DH and had never met him - it wasn't a "the DH is the invited person and you are the add on situation". It was like it was now acceptable to ask me because I was married.

He wasn't "friends" with the guy who worked with him for 5 minutes. This guy did a one off project with him and wasn't even working in the same place. This man was single. Ok to ask a single man.

The "maybe he just didn't want to spend time with you" was exactly what I thought and caused me a lot of self-esteem angst -as I said above - but it turned out to be nothing like that. I resent the fact I was doubting myself about this - when it was just single woman prejudice in the end.