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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Husband re-contacting OW - so hurt - very long, sorry

179 replies

Dancingtothemusicoftime · 21/07/2015 11:17

Hello, I've NC for this but am a long-time lurker and occasional poster, including about my DH's affair which took place four years ago while I was working temporarily overseas with my company. The support I received at the time was fantastic and assisted me in regaining my emotional sanity after truly despicable behaviour at the hands of H and OW.

The OW used every option to try and destroy me professionally and personally, including making malicious and unfounded complaints to my employer and the police (the latter resulted in her receiving a formal caution) and did the same to my H, after we made the decision to try and rebuild our marriage.

Because of my H's behaviour in the six months after I discovered their affair and before he properly ended it with her, the process of reconciliation has been very challenging and painful as I battled to get over the absolutely dreadful things he said to me about me and my numerous shortcomings in relation to the 'perfect' OW - these ranged across the whole gamut of my looks, my weight, my hair (she has glorious hair - mine is thin and has been a cause of much self-consciousness from a very early age), my lack of sportiness, my poor culinary ability (she has cooked professionally), plus my age - I am 12 years older than her. He now bitterly regrets his cruelty but is has left me with profound emotional scars and my self-confidence about my appearance which was never high anyway, has been decimated.

The situation was complicated by the fact that they worked in the same team as her and it was not until he sought a move of location to a different depot that he seemed able to put the relationship with her behind him and properly focus on us, although her making the numerous allegations she did repeatedly set us back. But he did everything to try and demonstrate his remorse and make clear his determination to seek my forgiveness - NC and blocking her, individual counselling for him and relationship counselling for us, changing the car in which she had given him a regular blow job before he dropped her back home after work, and getting rid of the furniture they had had sex on in our family home during my absence, the job move - which also involved a family house move right across the country (I was fine with this), plus repeatedly and unprompted, expressing his guilt and sorrow. On occasions he has cried about how much he hurt me and our 3 DC.

I have struggled to get over it all and was on antiDs for two years before weening myself off them. I have lived with the niggling fear that he has been going through the motions but reasoned that he could have left if he had really wanted to as she had told her DH she wanted to marry my H and her DH, although devastated, had made it clear to her - and me - that he had no wish to be the consolation prize and would agree to a divorce if my DH did leave me for her. However my H was adamant that it was me he wanted, not her, and said that he knew he had been in the grip of limerence during the affair and for some months after and that the cold turkey approach had been the only solution.

Things have been slowly improving between us but I admit that on occasion my hurt and humiliation can bubble up but I always apologise if I lose it and he responds by apologising too for having given me cause to react that way

  • I can honestly say that she was no longer of any great interest to me and I could even view the entire thing in a fairly objective, almost neutral, manner most (not all!) of the time.

However 4 weeks ago I was woken by a Skype call in the middle of the night. I thought it might be one of my colleagues currently working overseas but was horrified to see it was a missed call from the OW. I immediately woke my H with a 'why the fuck is xxxxxx skypeing me?' - to my devastation he immediately told me everything - showing me the emails between them and the whatsapp conversation. He had re-contacted her at the beginning of the year after we had a difficult Christmas following the sudden and totally unexpected death of his DM, and after being told by his company that the promotion he had long expected was now never going to happen. He said he felt I had been 'fairly supportive' about both events (very unfair particularly about his DM as I arranged the funeral from start to finish, sorted out the money, her small estate etc etc because he was in pieces and his 2 sisters were estranged from their mum) - but he knew that he would get 'more sympathy' from her as she has long made it clear via third parties that she still wants him. There was no resumption of their sexual relationship although in her messages she begged to have sex with him (he refuses in his replies, saying that he could not betray me or the children again in that way), but there is very much an emotional reconnection.

He ended it immediately that day - telephoned her husband to apologise - they had decided to reconcile for the sake of their young DC after my H made it clear after their first affair that he wanted to remain in our marriage. He also sent her an email apologising for getting her hopes up again for purely selfish and egocentric reasons. He swears that he had 'finally' grown up and truly realised how dreadful both the original affair and now this revisiting their emotional affair has been and what a 'complete fool' he has been. He said he had been self-pitying, pathetic and wanted the assurance that he could still have a beautiful woman risk everything in order to be with him. I have no doubt that the OW skyped me in order to provoke a reaction in both him and me but frankly I don't care about her motives.

But despite all that he has now done I feel dead inside. I can not comprehend that he resumed an affair with a woman who had done so much very real damage to both of us! Nor that he wilfully set aside all the shit and hard work we have endured individually and as a couple to really start to rebuild our marriage. I have told him that if he truly loves her I will not stand in their way but he has begged for forgiveness and is adamant that it was a lapse driven by external factors. But when I ask him how long it would have continued had the OW not contacted me, he just says that it would have 'fizzled out' because he had realised that he had 're-opened Pandora's Box' and was 'desperate' to close it again but feared that if he did so too abruptly then based on her past actions, she would wreak havoc again. Certainly the exchanges I have seen between them are unbalanced in the sense that she repeatedly begs for more, to plan for a future together, for sex, while his are very non-committal and almost like an exchange with a close friend rather than a lover. And he does mostly talk about his distress over the death of his DM and how frustrated he is professionally. Unlike their last relationship he writes nothing derogatory about me but does talk about his pride in my professional achievements. But even the latter disgusts me as how DARE he discuss me in any way with her!

I still love him but at the moment I despise him. He did what he knew I feared most in terms of our relationship. He has changed since this latest revelation and seems genuinely committed to gaining my forgiveness. But where will I ever find peace of mind now? Will the next life crisis see him running back to her?? He says not and that he has finally 'woken up'.

I am so very sorry for the length of this but if there is anyone out there who has experienced a similar scenario I would love to hear what the outcome was. Please don't flame me wise mumsnetters for having believed him when he said it was over for good the first time around..

OP posts:
DonkeysDontRideBicycles · 21/07/2015 19:10

I don't think that you were a fool to hope he had come to his senses but this must now be the end. He kicked you in the teeth twice. And whining about how it's been about your hurt the past four years? Unbelievable.

bigbumbrunette · 21/07/2015 19:53

I just wanted to join in with support for you. I've been through similar with a crazy, stalking other woman and, together with DH's initial denial, I thought I was going mad. I always thought I'd LTB in this situation but we are trying to work through things. He's been for individual counselling and we're about to start couples counselling. I do believe we can move forward with things and I love him. BUT he'd absolutely never get another chance. He says he knows how disrespectful and appalling he's been to me. If he was to do it again he'd be saying that to treat me like that again is ok. No way.
You sound like an incredibly strong woman. You can do this. Start YOUR life as you deserve it.

Effic · 21/07/2015 20:08

Dancing - He's a narcissist or something very like one. Everything is all about him. He wanted the attentions of a allegedly prettier younger woman so he got one because he can. But he doesn't really want her, he wants his surrogate mother, which I am afraid you are. You are his cheerleader, the one who looks after him and allows him to do whatever he wants. When he got caught, it was still all about him and he played the fallen hero so well. (Oh poor conflicted me but look what a good husband I am - i stayed with my 'plain' wife). Only that all got a bit boring and dull so he went back after the OW again to 'prove he could get her to drop everything' (Jesus - what a shit!) and she came running. So that gave him the kick this rather sick man needs. But he doesn't really want her (See above) he now wants to see if he's so amazing, so desirable etc that he can convince you for a second time to stay with him. Because then he really has achieved the dream hasn't he - two women willing to give up everything - there self respect & there dignity - for him.
Please please get out because goodness only knows what his next act will be if he pulls off act 2.

Effic · 21/07/2015 20:10

Their not there x 2 - grr!

MamaMotherMummy · 21/07/2015 20:30

You deserve someone who is in love with and devoted to you.

If it were me, I'd be gone. An affair might be forgivable, but comparing you to another woman and putting you down is not. I'm assuming you've never compared him to another man unfavourably or put him down in the same way?

I feel sorry about his childhood but it is not something you can fix for him.

MagicalMrsMistoffelees · 21/07/2015 20:36

Even though you've been half expecting this for four years, now it's happened the hurt must be unbearable. I'm so sorry he's been such a shit.

Although it seems so scary, if you leave him it WILL be ok. And you will realise that you are happier because you're finally free of the constant anticipation that it'll happen again.

You'll also be free of someone who has been so cruel about you; who betrayed you for a second time despite all the pain he knows it caused first time around. And then he twists the truth, shifts blame, makes excuses. What kind of a pathetic excuse for a human being is he? And why would you want him now - could you ever respect or trust him again after this?

If he ends up with her I guarantee it'll last five minutes. They are a pair of narcissistic fantasists who will not survive together in the real world. You will be over it by then and will have the last laugh. Good luck and be kind to yourself.

jenenberry · 21/07/2015 20:36

I've just realized that you support him financially! Shock

OP, you do realize that you hold ALL the cards and could, potentially, call all the shots.
You have the upper hand in all this (even though he is manipulating you into believing that you are 'lacking')

But it's all Bullshit.
He is NOTHING without you!

Wake up and smell the coffee and I mean that nicely

jenenberry · 21/07/2015 20:38

And make sure you (quietly) carry on sorting things out with the Solicitor.
At the moment you hold most of the cards in this relationship.
Don't let him (and OW) take them away from you.
Time to toughen up and protect your own (and your children's) interests.

Good Luck.

Offred · 21/07/2015 20:55

I very much doubt this is about her or you or your respective attributes. It's entirely about your H. I utterly agree with annarose who said he needs worship and nothing will be good enough.

I'd further add that I seriously doubt that he has ever or ever will love you or anyone else as from your posts I believe he is likely to be hugely insecure and therefore feels this entitlement to worship of himself by other people.

The affair has satisfied this drive in him in two important ways; 1. He gets superficial worship from OW which he can intensify through a cycle of giving attention and removing it leaving her desperate for him and 2. The affair with OW serves to reduce your self worth and manoeuvre you into worshipping him and accepting blame in order to 'fix' things.

I think your life with him will always only be filled with periodical misery and subsequent attempts at recovery because quite simply he feels he is the most important person in the world and he is not actually capable of loving or respecting women - they are not people to him IMO, just tools to massage his ego with.

Dowser · 21/07/2015 21:11

My pathetic piece of doo doo,when he realised the shit had hit the fan bleated to me ...but you're much cleverer than I am.

Yes, I am and once my back is against the wall I come out fighting.

I could have done all sorts to discredit him but thankfully my pride and dignity restrained me ...just!

You will too OP. he's hurt and humiliated you enough like mine did to me but I came out on top and you will too.

Just wait till it comes crashing around his ears and the realisation dawns on him...that he killed the goose that lays the golden eggs.

I went on to have a much happier life once I was free of his shackles. I travelled . I took up some sporting activities. I went out nearly every night. I had a ball and then I met my lovely man when aged 56 and life has been even more of a blast.

It's all out there OP. just at the end of your fingertips. Reach out and grab it with both hands!

Dancingtothemusicoftime · 21/07/2015 21:17

jenenberry, yes I do support him and the DC with my salary; his is OK but unless he moves jobs he has probably peaked hie earning potential. I don't hold all the cards but he has many times over the years said that I have been the making of him but I think effic has nailed it, I have become his surrogate mum. magical you have encapsulated it all in that one sentence- yes, half-expected but the reality is agonising.

For those who ask where my anger is, well I think I am too broken and humiliated to feel anything but 'meh' at the moment. I have shouted and screamed but ended up feeling diminished by it and I sense that I don't want him to feel my desperation any more. Done with that as it gives him an excuse to play the victim again ( 'you are criminalising me again by reacting in this way').

Years ago his late DM said to me, "you do realise that [H] will always kill by death through a thousand cuts rather than appear to be the bad guy". That comment wasn't in relation to any kind of infidelity but I have thought of it quite often since. He is terrified of anyone thinking less of him and is still furious that I confided in my DM and DF plus a couple of close girlfriends last time. He is livid that I told the OW's line manager this time around who, by pure coincidence, is a close friend of mine through a shared interest (and now shared God-children). She has been enormously supportive and can't hide her disgust with H although of course -and quite rightly - she has had to remain completely professional at work with the OW.

I will keep talking to the solicitor who helpfully is a friend so is giving me advice for free at present but I know that will change once I go down any formal route. I just need time to process all this and time to learn to look in the mirror again and not loathe what I see there. I suspect the DC will want to live with him as he has always been fun daddy whilst I am tired and stressed mummy. They do love me, that I know, but very much blamed me for his affair as he made sure that my flaws were writ large to them. They have all said, repeatedly, that they are so happy that we have reconciled Sad.

Got a message from him tonight - he is missing me and he and the DC can't wait for me to return home from this work trip. No wonder my head is all over the place.

Thank you again for your kindness; I have sobbed my way through the astonishing and amazingly insightful comments. So many of you seem to know and understand him so well.

OP posts:
Dowser · 21/07/2015 21:35

There's not a lot of difference between cheaters .

Once a cheater always a cheater.

I had to laugh at your comment re him getting upset at you confiding in a support network.

I rang women I had become friendly with through his friendship with their husbands who had also been cheated on. They must have told him. That really exasperated him ha! Ha!

" will you stop ringing my mates wives? It said.

Err no! You've opened a door into a new world for me so I'm ringing for help , support and advice on a good solicitor and offer my support to them. I didnt say the last sentence . No! Was good enough

Once I got over the hurt, boy did I have some fun with him.

I ended up with the much happier life.

He ended up shackled to a women he didn't love ( he told our son that) who had a stroppy layabout teenager when ours were grown up and sadly estranged from the beloved daughter he adored and our grandchildren.

Was it worth it?
Hmmmm my son and DIL don't think so!

Dancingtothemusicoftime · 21/07/2015 21:37

Offred your post made my (thinSmile) hair stand on end particularly the comments about his use of both the OW and me to support his ego. He would argue of course that he has been faithful for years before all this and he admires strong women like me, like our DDs, like his DM.

But I think he is a damaged man and, sadly, has displayed many of his F's traits - the very short fuse, the intolerance of other people, the aggressive driving and willingness to smash things up when in a rage . He does, despite all this, have redeeming features - he is usually very kind, works hard, adores our DC, does more than his fair share around the house and has enabled my career, which frequently involves extensive travel, with pride rather than complaints.

He has been a pathetic and self-serving twunt but I do still love him. I don't like him very much any more though. Above all I feel sorry for him, that he couldn't be the man he always aspired to be. He despised his F's infidelities but is now playing out the same scenarios. I think he hates himself above all, but wraps the self-loathing in a carapace of vanity and egotism. I don't think he knows what he wants any more - an adoring wife, three beautiful DC and a lovely lifestyle have left him wanting something different, someone different. Perhaps I just have to accept that the relationship has run its course for him and he too wants a different future.

OP posts:
Dilema76 · 21/07/2015 22:07

You love him through habit more than anything else. You have actually forgotten what real love and respect is.

TRexingInAsda · 21/07/2015 22:21

I don't think he does want a different future entirely - he's had plenty of opportunity to leave if he wanted to. He doesn't want to, he wants the successful, clever wife, and the lovely lifestyle that pays for, and the children. He just wants someone to shag on the side as well, as an ego boost. He's a complete git and you deserve so much better than to be treated this way.

EnriqueTheRingBearingLizard · 21/07/2015 22:50

I read the start of this thread earlier today and am not so much marking place as putting a marker of respect and affection for you OP so that you know again that other people, strangers, see great worth in you and wish you well.

Am too tired to catch up tonight, but thought it important to put those thoughts on here for you to see.

Effic · 21/07/2015 23:02

Children do not get to 'choose' - it's not a popularity contest! Adults do the deciding regarding contact and the worst it will be, will be 50/50 unless there is some reason you think the courts would find otherwise? Your problem will be palimony I guess unless the new woman wants to start paying his bills. Anyway, I very much doubt that someone so attention seeking and narcissistic will want to look after children long term once the "look at me being a fanatastic father" bit has worn off. Raising children requires one to give of oneself with no expectation of reward or recognition not likely from what you've told of him so far.
Get solicitors advice and batten down the hatches because he will get v v nasty. Not only are you his bankroll to a easy life but you will be ripping away his fantasy of "poor conflicted but loyal and rather tragic little me" thing he's got going on. But there is only one winner long term and that's you x and please don't think we are all so wise - it's easy to see stuff from the outside looking in - we all struggle when it's our own stuff we are trying to make sense of!

springydaffs · 21/07/2015 23:04

Very worried about what he's done to the kids

You seem to accept it - why? It's all about him and has always been about him. People like this don't love anyone - that includes the kids; they use people as a feather in their cap. A good father doesn't turn his children against their mother.

I'd also be interested to hear what your faults supposedly are. The ones writ large; the ones he used to convince the kids you deserved his cruel infidelity. Can you see how damaging that is for them? Can you see that not only does his behaviour mirror his father's but he has trained his own children to follow suit Sad

franklyidontgiveadamscarlet · 21/07/2015 23:05

Dancingtothemusicoftime I think you are stunned that it has happen again and you are fearful of taking the next step and are caught in a stranglehold of his drama. Yes you hold the cards but until you take a step back and really see the situation for what it is you will remain a victim.
The Fact that he sends little messages to you full of missing your love and children is to keep you there.
You are the bank and you seem to do more care with his children than him.
What gets me is this man told his own children they were all riding into the sunset together where all our dreams will come true.

Your children have been damaged in this, they have not grown up yet and have relationships of there own to understand their own moral compass.
You are the adult and whether they live with you or him I hope you move on with your life.
You have done all you can here.

To me its like the boat sunk awhile ago and now you have been given a life jacket.
Do you want to sink or swim for your own life
Dancingtothemusicoftime you have only one life and being happy.
Children will grow up and leave anyway.

Inertia · 21/07/2015 23:39

Delightful though I'm sure your children are, I'd bet on him not wanting to actually have full time residency of the children when the time comes. They'd get in the way of his plans with OW.

In fact, given the threats, harassment and police involvement, is there any kind of non-molestation order in place that would protect your children from contact with OW?

On a side note, your description of the OW has given me an idea of what she's like. Luxuriant bouffant hair, sporty, has cooked professionally- just makes me think of a slightly more feminine Gordon Ramsay. You, on the other hand, are an inspirational, international, high-powered, influential jetsetter who is too dignified to be dealing with crap like this. It isn't up to your H to decide how you should feel, or whether he picks you or OW- you get to call the shots.

honeyroar · 21/07/2015 23:40

Could you remind me how old the children are? I thought they were mid to late teens, perhaps I read it wrongly?

Children over 12 can choose who they live with. My SIL's son chose to live with his dad but soon changed his mind once the rose coloured specs fell off and he saw his dad for the first time without his mother's covering up for his behaviour/faults. I suspect that this would happen here too..

BrowersBlues · 22/07/2015 00:03

OP you can and you will work this out. You are a smart woman who has been badly treated by someone who you trusted. It is only normal that you feel completed devastated. I promise you that you will get over this. You have a great future ahead of you and you do not need to be treated so badly.

I winced when I read that you look at yourself in the mirror with loathing. Stop doing that now! Look in the mirror and see a wonderful mother, a strong, beautiful, kind hearted and highly capable woman. That is the real you. You have been knocked by two people who cannot even be compared to you.

Hold your head up and be absolutely certain that you can stick up for yourself. You will gain so much from living your life on your own terms. I am excited for your future myself. Lots of love to you as I know you are very hurt. You will emerge from this stronger than ever and will be a great example to your children. Try to get some sleep tonight x

Dancingtothemusicoftime · 22/07/2015 07:03

Yes I think he has used the children against me at times and as a weapon - he told them that the OW was a better cook, would be a 'fun mummy', would make daddy much happier than mummy has. Even before the affair he would very rarely back me if they were playing up, choosing instead to take their side and thus undermining me. He told OW he desperately wished he had had his children with her rather than me. Nothing he said to me at the time hurt me more than that comment.

In answer to questions, they are 12, 15 and 17; the younger two have been particularly badly affected by the OWs behaviour in the past as she put her own DC in the same sport and dance classes as them as a route to contact with DH and to stalk me. She also regularly tried to engage now 15 yr old but at the time 11 year old in conversation about my H. My smart, sassy daughter knew exactly what was going on and on one occasion at the club told OW very loudly and in public to stop chasing after her father. I was devastated about this when I found out as to have her dragged into the horrible drama by OW was and is unforgivable. Police are aware of all of this. Non-molestation order is an interesting thought and not one that had occurred to me so far but is something I will discuss with my solicitor. It would of course forever damage any hope I would have about co-parenting in a civilised fashion with my H if he were to end up with OW.

I am so tired. I have no energy for anything or anyone. I am having to work really hard to remain professional. The day after the Skype call I had to present to our CEO in front of a small but highly critical team. I don't know how I did it and actually can remember little of what I said. But I was so furious with H that I was once more back in this shit position of barely being able to function. Since then I have gone through the motions at work and I know I am not performing how I should to the extent that I heard a junior member of the team commenting recently that Dancing seems distracted at present. I haven't been to HR as I had to have some months off with trauma after the first affair and I simply can't bear to publicly own up to my humiliation again.

Thank you for your thoughts and wisdom.

OP posts:
PreemptiveSalvageEngineer · 22/07/2015 07:03

They do love me, that I know, but very much blamed me for his affair as he made sure that my flaws were writ large to them.

WTAF?!? He's shared with them his thoughts on your alleged thin hair and how you can't cook as well as batshit-crazy stalky woman? I was livid when I just thought he was blaming you in his own head and discussions with you for your alleged failings as kibble-supplier, but that he's actually roping his daughters into this?!? This goes beyond.

Sorry, I'm about to froth at the mouth a little with you now, but I just don't get how you're not angry about this! He's showing them, by his very existence in their lives, and by YOU allowing it, that some day it's OK for a man to leave them when they're not perfect enough, when their hair gets thin, if they don't cook well enough. All YOU are is clever and capable and supportive of those you love, and that's not good enough.

Proto-women (girls) have enough problems with self-esteem. I can't believe you're helping this guy emotionally wreck your children.

Rant over.

Lacoba66 · 22/07/2015 07:20

OP, your sad excuse of a husband most certainly does not 'like' strong women! I think he says you as a threat (because of his inadequacies) and has therefore (as others have already pointed out) searched out someone else to massage his immature ego.

If you are able to stop listening to his hollow words and see him for his actions, then that may help you. Flowers