porn and our future

[myluckystars]

I have been married to dh for 4 years and we have a toddler. Before we got engaged I came home to my flat which we were sharing at the time to find him watching porn on the computer. He wasn't expecting me home for another few hours so was doing this in secret. I have strong feelings about porn and don't like it for a multitude of reasons. I was very upset at the time and told him if it happened again the relationship was over, he seemed very upset by my being upset and that was it (we had a very good sex life btw). We carried on together and got engaged, then married, I trusted him. When out baby was 6 months I caught him again and literally an hour before I caught him I had asked him if he ever did it and he looked me in eye and promised no but then I caught him practically straight after. I realised that probably all the times he had been up late at night while I was going to bed early to get up with baby, he had probably been watching porn and then getting up early and moaning about being tired. Anyway, I was furious and said if it happened again it would be divorce. So 3 years on so far so good although can I ever trust him again on it is my thought. We barely ever have sex because it has been a huge turn-off for me and I have trouble respecting him after him lying to my face.

Fast forward to now and there is a man at work who I have developed feelings for who I am sure feels the same. Nothing has ever happened and I have been very careful to not let my feelings slip out and I feel guilty because I am married. Part of me feels it is not a marriage anymore anyway and surely I deserve to be happy.

The myth of women having a lower sex 'drive' is again more nonsense.

I didn't actually say that.

I think it's more a question of the drive having different qualities, and responding differently to the environment. In particular, male sex drive seems to be far more promiscuous.

Offred, I asked you what your thoughts are on erotic literature are. Are you saying that it also demeans, objectifies and dismisses women?

Feel free Pushing.

Because you, from you subjective position, can only really speak about how you feel and you can never be fully self-aware.

Sure. But you could say the same thing about a rape victim or a mother and say that she can only describe her own experience, and it doesn't give her any more insight into the lives and psychology of women in general than I have.

I don't know that may even be your position. In which case fair enough, at least it would be consistent.

You are confusing biological differences with differences in sexuality.

No, I'm saying that you can't possibly completely divorce sexuality from biology. So if you have two very different types of biology, the sexuality emerging from or associated with them will likely be different. You seem determined to refuse to address this point and instead keep rephrasing it as something different from what I'm actually saying. I'm sorry I don't know how to make it any clearer.

But it's not even just a question of biology. We can see the general sexual differences between men and women just from observing their behaviour, which diverges from each other in so many ways. (Hence this thread, and 56,000 others on the same subject).

No, I'm saying what I said which is that I object to things which objectify women. If erotic literature is of the kind that perpetuates abusive stereotypes then yes. There is quite a lot in the erotic literature industry that does but it does not directly buy and sell real women's sexual experiences so it is different. Why are you so interested?

I'm not refusing to address that point. I'm saying when you stated your opinions as facts earlier they are not backed up by credible scientific research. You are the one making the point that men and women have different sexuality and I do not have to disprove your opinion. You need to offer some evidence to actually support it.

Does anyone know when the OP last replied? Or is this just another thread about porn?

There is absolutely no question that your views are commonly expressed ones but that does not make those views correct. Ever thought that gender inequality is a known thing and just possibly could have rather a large influence on people's views.

Men have spent centuries trying to dictate and control women's sexuality and you clearly as an individual feel more than comfortable doing that yourself on this thread... Based on your experience...

It would be just as unreasonable for a rape victim to start saying their experience meant xyz for other people.

Erotic literature is a broad brush encompassing lots of sub genres. It's like asking someone how do you feel about 'modern literary fiction'; well, most people would answer that with: it depends. You're asking Offred about her views on erotic literature because you're trying to suggest her views on porn render her sterile of external sexual stimulus. I think you need to rethink your ideas on those who object to porn. We're not the women you think we are. I love role play & bdsm personally. Sitting in your pyjamas, eating chips, passively watching a screen where people fuck for pay doesn't make you more evolved or sexual. You're a consumer. We object to porn for valid reasons & a childhood tease of 'ooh, you're frigid' won't make us waver one bit.

Offred, I think you're being very tolerant x

Women who object to porn are not bitter, messed up, prudes, unrealistic, jealous, traditional or anything else you might want to chuck this way btw. Shock horror there are men who object to porn too.

Offred, I am asking because I'm unsure as to whether you object to women being objectified or if you object to men wanking over facsimiles of sex, be they porn, animation or written.

So why didn't it clear it up when I stated I object to women being objectified? If I had mean't I object to wanking that is what I would have said... HTH

Women who object to porn are not bitter, messed up, prudes, unrealistic, jealous, traditional or anything else you might want to chuck this way btw. Shock horror there are men who object to porn too.

Don't know if that's directed at me but if so it's bizarre, considering I never said or suggested anything of the sort (except perhaps, in a sense, "unrealistic").

I object to women being objectified and I think it is utterly grim for people to wank over women being objectified, particularly if it is men doing it because of the long history of gender inequality and oppression of female sexuality... I think it's an absolutely massively twattish thing to do.

Men have spent centuries trying to dictate and control women's sexuality and you clearly as an individual feel more than comfortable doing that yourself on this thread... Based on your experience...

And how the fuck have I done that? This is ridiculous, you seem to want to just make things up and ascribe them to me.

It wasn't particularly aimed at you personally, just generally where these threads go...

Women should defer to a man's view about women's sexuality and if they don't they are [insert diminishing term here]

When you mansplained about "men's sexuality" that was exactly what you did.

Another thing: in most depictions of mainstream porn, women are a sum total of orifices: mouth, arse, cunt. The terror & the elephant in the room is men who watch porn like this. Why do they?

You know the man sexuality that is how men feel/behave and not how women feel/behave and how it is all explained by biological differences which can't be helped...

Because IMO they have not been brought up to recognise it as a damaging unacceptable and unattractive thing to do. Because most of society tells them it is "men's sexuality" to view women like this. Kind of connected to homophobia too in many ways I think.

I'm not refusing to address that point. I'm saying when you stated your opinions as facts earlier they are not backed up by credible scientific research. You are the one making the point that men and women have different sexuality and I do not have to disprove your opinion. You need to offer some evidence to actually support it.

I didn't mention "credible scientific research" because this is an informal internet discussion forum, not a peer reviewed journal. Statements like this always get trotted out to suddenly require a higher level of justification from opinions that people don't like.

But FWIW, you don't need a phd in gender studies to observe:

• The higher number of men than women who use porn, and greater frequency with which they use it.

• The far higher number of men than women who go to prostitutes.

• The fact that men are far more comfortable about casual sex with new and multiple partners. The fact that casual sex hookup rituals in clubs etc. invariably involve men chasing women and women having the power to say yes or no, more often then the reverse.

• The fact that swingers' clubs routinely have rules against single men attending, but welcome single women, because otherwise they would be inundated by a massive imbalance of the sexes.

Most kids fiddle with their bits cos it feels nice, as humans mature our psychology (as well as our biology) influences what we do and don't find attractive and sexually stimulating. Most people learn sexual norms like heterosexuality, paedophilia being wrong, touching people in sexual places without consent being wrong, sexual relationships with family being wrong, porn being ok/desirable etc from socialisation and often at very young ages. A lot of men when they realise what porn actually means start feeling disgusted by it.

'Why does he do that?' Lundy could've written it on a post it note.

If you are going to state your personal view as though it is a fact I think you do need to justify it actually.

What form of external stimuli do you think is acceptable as masturbation aid Offred?

It is not my intention to get at you, it's just that I have read this thread today and you said some things that I find interesting.

I am not a consumer of porn and nor is my DP. I do not have a pro porn agenda and am somewhat saddened that future generations will not have the freedom(?) I feel I had to develop my own sexual preferences before having imitations of other people's fantasies shoved in my face. IYSWIM