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porn and our future

460 replies

myluckystars · 09/07/2015 19:37

I have been married to dh for 4 years and we have a toddler. Before we got engaged I came home to my flat which we were sharing at the time to find him watching porn on the computer. He wasn't expecting me home for another few hours so was doing this in secret. I have strong feelings about porn and don't like it for a multitude of reasons. I was very upset at the time and told him if it happened again the relationship was over, he seemed very upset by my being upset and that was it (we had a very good sex life btw). We carried on together and got engaged, then married, I trusted him. When out baby was 6 months I caught him again and literally an hour before I caught him I had asked him if he ever did it and he looked me in eye and promised no but then I caught him practically straight after. I realised that probably all the times he had been up late at night while I was going to bed early to get up with baby, he had probably been watching porn and then getting up early and moaning about being tired. Anyway, I was furious and said if it happened again it would be divorce. So 3 years on so far so good although can I ever trust him again on it is my thought. We barely ever have sex because it has been a huge turn-off for me and I have trouble respecting him after him lying to my face.

Fast forward to now and there is a man at work who I have developed feelings for who I am sure feels the same. Nothing has ever happened and I have been very careful to not let my feelings slip out and I feel guilty because I am married. Part of me feels it is not a marriage anymore anyway and surely I deserve to be happy.

OP posts:
Jo4040 · 10/07/2015 20:01

Offered. Bang on.

Melonfool · 10/07/2015 21:04

If you've never got over him watching porn and lying to you then you have been living a lie for years - show the guy some respect and honesty and end the relationship.

What you do after that is up to you.

RagstheInvincible · 10/07/2015 21:57

Hang on. You told him, if I read your post correctly, that if you caught him using porn again it would mean divorce. This other guy is a total irrelevance. The real question is why aren't you divorcing him, not should you have an affair (whether emotional or physical) with this other chap.

nequidnimis · 10/07/2015 21:59

Because he hasn't done it again Rags. She threatened him with divorce three years ago and hasn't caught him watching it since.

dominogocatgo · 10/07/2015 22:02

But, Allyjay, a large proportion of porn features no women at all.

SolidGoldBrass · 10/07/2015 22:21

Plenty of people object to porn for a variety of reasons, some more valid than others. Plenty of people have hobbies and interests that a partner dislikes or is bored by.
However, if your partner has an interest that you dislike, but which is something a lot of people do and which is not, actually, illegal, you need to discuss your viewpoint with your partner rather than simply telling your partner to stop doing whatever it is and expect to be obeyed without question.

As with actual infidelity: if your partner breaches monogamy and you find out, you have two options: end the relationship or forgive the partner. Just because your partner has WAAAH WAAAAAH looked at porn or WAAAH WAAAAH WAAAAH had sex with someone else does not mean you are entitled to continue the relationship while subjecting your partner to constant punishment such as witholding sex, whining, guilt-tripping, constant scolding and put-downs. Living in a state of sustained contempt and bitterness is immensely unhealthy.

BarkLikeAMoose · 10/07/2015 22:26

As always with this subject, there is a large number of misunderstandings and misconceptions.

It's probably not true that all men watch porn. Most do though.

Most importantly, porn watching - and male sex drive generally - is not fundamentally rational. The idea that you can create a simple chain of cause and effect from TELLING him that porn is a deal breaker, to him AGREEING to stop in order to make you happy, to him NEVER looking at porn again through sheer force of WILL, is ridiculous. It doesn't work that way.

Sex, for men, is a direct, unconscious motivational force stronger that any other force we experience. Most men if the opportunities were available and there weren't balancing negative consequences, would shag pretty much anything that moves. Porn offers a way to effectively do that (as far as the brain is concerned) without consequences like having to manage a relationship with the other person, STDs, expense, or (as the user sees it) committing infidelity that could break up relationships and families.

When the OPs DH said he would never look at it again, he may well have meant it perfectly honestly. Or he may not. The problem is it's an environmental thing. While porn is so easily available in the environment, and the worst consequence of using it is having to keep it secret, male brains will gravitate to it, no matter what kinds of well meaning and earnest conversations happen at other times.

I don't know where that leaves women who see it as a dealbreaker. I can see it's very difficult. You could not have an internet connection in the house, but he'll still see it elsewhere.

Offred · 10/07/2015 22:35

oh FFS it saddens me that so many people still believe this actual rubbish about men and women's sex drives and porn etc.

SGB I agree and it's basically what I said on my first post.

Offred · 10/07/2015 22:42

Just honestly why bother living in a liberal society with attitudes like this to heterosexual relationships?

Men are not special they don't have inherently different sexualities and they don't get special rules about how they get to interact with the world because they have penises.

Plus it's not specifically damaging to women this stuff it also targets homosexual men who are 'other' than straight men just like women are 'other'. It is directly about the straight man's superiority over everyone else....

BarkLikeAMoose · 10/07/2015 22:55

Men are not special they don't have inherently different sexualities

Of course they do.

Sexuality is a hugely complex thing made up from the interaction of brain, genital organs, reproductive processes, hormone levels etc. When so many of those things are extremely different between men and women (in some cases mutually exclusive), how could the sexuality that results at the end of it all NOT be different?

and they don't get special rules about how they get to interact with the world because they have penises.

It's not a question of "special rules". It's that seeing interaction in the world as a simple question of people following clearly agreed and articulated rules is unrealistic - for everyone, not just men, and in many different spheres, not just sex.

Actually the worst "rule infringement" that seems to have happened here is that when the OP unilaterally ordered her husband not to do something, he said OK but then went and did it anyway. We don't know much about why that was. I wonder how many married people manage to maintain a 100% rate in doing everything their partner wants them to do until death parts them.

Offred · 10/07/2015 23:03

Well now you've explained it I totally agree(!)

Where are you getting this stuff from. I am completely aware that lots of people believe in this crap but there is little to no actual credible scientific foundation for it - it just suits a patriarchal culture... That's all...

Offred · 10/07/2015 23:07

I mean look at what you are saying; all the complexities (and more that you haven't listed; culture, socialisation etc) which vary between individuals mean human sexuality has great variances between individuals. All the 'gender specific' stuff about 'mutual exclusivity' is simply not true and there are way more differences between women and other women that women and men...

BarkLikeAMoose · 10/07/2015 23:20

I think you misunderstood me. By mutual exclusivity, I was referring to physical factors: the fact that men have penises and testicles and women don't; that women have vaginas and uteruses they can grow a baby in, and men don't, the fact that women can breast feed and men can't, etc. etc.

Sex as a psychological phenomenon is not some abstract Platonic "form" that floats around separate from and untouched by the physical stuff of the world. It's something that grows out of the interaction of a whole bunch of physical factors.

If the factors contributing to it are different - WIDELY different and in many cases mutually exclusive - then obviously the end result of all those factors adding up together will be different.

WhySoAngry · 10/07/2015 23:25

BarkLikeAMoose - let me appreciate the eloquent, articulate, intelligent way you explain the reality of the situation.

Offred - you can put your fingers in your ears and go 'na na na' all you like - it doesn't stop what BarkLikeAMoose says being true

BarkLikeAMoose · 10/07/2015 23:31

But really Offred, all I'm telling you is what it feels like as a man - both my subjective experience, and how my conversations with other men and my view of the culture I see around me make sense in terms of that extensive experience. It's not a question of "beliefs".

I'm curious that you feel entitled to write that off so confidently. I would never presume to tell women that I understand their experience better than they do when it comes to things like childbirth or rape. I understand that it's one thing to theorise, and another thing altogether to respect the fact of gender-specific (or anything-specific) experience.

It's not like anything I wrote, or the OP's story, is particularly radical or unusual. I'm telling you here that the worldview by which many women form their understanding of men and male sexuality (which largely seems to consist of ASSUMING that it's the same as it is for women, and then refusing to acknowledge men's own claims, or cultural evidence, to the contrary) is largely inaccurate and misleading. We are not the way you think we are.

You can do with that information what you will.

Salene · 10/07/2015 23:34

Men watch porn what is the big deal..?? Get over it. Oh and cheating well that is the lowest of the low...

Offred · 10/07/2015 23:40

Because you, from you subjective position, can only really speak about how you feel and you can never be fully self-aware.

I've read the research that supposedly backs up the gender differences in male/female sexuality and it is not credible. It is not considered credible science like the study that found structural differences in brains with 6 participants in the study!!!

You are confusing biological differences with differences in sexuality.

PushingThru · 10/07/2015 23:44

Sex isn't a force for men that differs from women; it just isn't true. I've been in relationships with men & women & their maleness or femaleness is irrelevant to promise keeping. Pure nonsense.

Offred · 10/07/2015 23:45

I've not said men's sexuality "is" anything on this thread. That is something you are helping yourself to, assuming you=male and women=different. I find it astonishing that you, whilst making pronouncements of your opinions about female sexuality being different to yours would attempt to lecture me about 'thinking about men's sexuality'.

It is not an issue about sexuality anyway. It's an issue about behavioural choices. If you like porn you need to be with a woman who likes porn or has no strong feelings. You don't get to impose your view on her just because you have some kind of weird internal narrative that says she is wrong.

That's the same reason my first post to the op said she should have discussed it with him at the start and not issued a demand.

PushingThru · 10/07/2015 23:49

The myth of women having a lower sex 'drive' is again more nonsense. It's not my experience.

DioneTheDiabolist · 10/07/2015 23:51

OP, your DH's porn use is not a "deal breaker", it's an excuse. The question is for what? For you to leave him or for you to have an affair?

PushingThru · 10/07/2015 23:53

Wanting to read another chapter of your novel because a bit of brief, lazy PIV is all a bit of a frustration doesn't equate to women having a lower sex drive. Women love sex.

DioneTheDiabolist · 10/07/2015 23:54

Offred, you object to porn because it objectifies women, you object to anime, because it objectifies women, how do you feel about erotic literature?

Offred · 10/07/2015 23:56

Yes, I object to things that objectify women and demean and dismiss them... Don't you?

PushingThru · 10/07/2015 23:58

May I respond to the erotic literature point?

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