Who gets the snip?

[feministwithtitsin]

Hi ladies (and gents)

Me and my DH have just had our 2 DC. We are both still relatively young (I am 30, DH is 29). We have both decided that 2 children is enough for us, our family is complete. I want to retrain and focus on my career in a year or so, and, although my DH probably would like more children, we have decided that 2 is enough as we would be better financially, and I would keep my sanity!

I have had 2 caesareans, the first was a nightmare as I had an infection and the recovery time was a nightmare (5 days in hospital, alot of pain etc) the second was textbook.

As we are both young, neither of us would be looking to get the snip for at least another 5 years, just to be 100% sure, as by that time out fertility would have dropped and I think it would be too disruptive to my career, and life in general, to be having a newborn after that.

So for the next 5 years, I will be on some kind of hormone contraceptive, as condoms are too much of a pain.

The question is who should get the snip? I think my DH should as I have had 2 caseareans already and the op itself is easier, he thinks I should because the risks of vascetomies scare him (long term ball pain etc)

So, mumsnet jury! What is your verdict

Offred- that's not my experience at all. Maybe yours. I am not sure how you can generalise.

I'm talking mainly about this thread where many women were shocked at the idea a man could be expected to consider vasectomy (including risks) as part of a couple and believed the woman should just take on the burden herself because it's a woman's problem. It does reflect general views I have experienced though in RL.

I've found on this thread, others and in real life, the stance of 'I've done my bit it's his turn' and 'he's so selfish if he won't'.
That attitude (to me) does feel like it's minimising the risk or suggesting the risks are unimportant.

Yeah, but that's not what anyone has said. They've been talking about what they feel their partners should consider not what they feel they should do.

I mean you've never heard that common belief that women who don't take contraception are 'forcing' men into becoming fathers?

People HAVE said that. And they do say it. All the time. (I know this because I used to say it!)

No to a vasectomy because of risk of pain? Because last time I checked childbirth was pretty painful (and I opted for more drugs than Russell Brand at Glastonbury).Why should the pain by default fall to me?

I did know a fella who refused to countenance a vasectomy and I always thought he was a twat. Then DH had his go wrong, and I thought, actually that fella is quite a sensible twat really, with his gonads intact.

I think all people are asking for on this thread is that there is some balance. Directly saying I refuse to consider it because of the risk that I may have pain is not great, taking the risk of pain, health problems and loss of sexual function into account as well as the effects on your partner is not something that society should expect to only apply to women is the point.

Cos it's also kind of common for men to express that they feel unhappy that their partner's sex drive has dropped after birth/on hormones but that this is their partner's issue and not a shared result of their contraceptive/family planning choices. There is a lot of pressure on women to be both sexually available on demand and pregnant/not pregnant on demand. Getting pregnant, not getting pregnant, not wanting sex etc always seems to be a fault of the woman.

And if a man suffers problems with vasectomy much fewer people will see that as blameworthy or a reason to disrespect them than if a woman suffers problems with contraception/childbirth.

Well of course as a feminist I hear what you are saying about the burden being placed more fairly.

A male pill would be great, a male coil(?) or something - excellent.

However, the vasectomy is surgery- not a simple 'snip'- and it's poorly carried out in this country. It might well be the 'fair' thing to do but it is not a trivial thing to do.

I don't have the right to ask another individual to undertake surgery which will irreversibly impact on his fertility.

Yes childbirth is painful and can damage women. But this is not a tit for tat scenario.

I really don't know what sort of men some of you are married to. Pressuring for sex, not taking responsibility etc. Etc.

Most men I know have had the snip. Quite a few have had problems but none as bad as mine. I don't know any fellas that have refused.

If we had been told about the health issues and permanent pain we wouldn't have done it though. Think how you would feel if that happened to your partner.

The medical risks of all procedures and drugs should be clearly explained, no arguments there.

I despair at some of the relationships described by mumsnetters. I can't imagine being in a relationship where there was any 'pressurising' going on in either direction. My DH and I have a normal (ie NOT perfect) relationship but even so we make decisions based on what's best for us as a couple. For us it made a lot more sense for me to get sterilised.

I know these things aren't always apparent and I know that people and relationships can change but I wouldn't have kids with a man if he was the type to pressurise me into getting sterilised

No, it's not tit for tat. It's not about asking someone else to have a surgery. It's about expecting that in a heterosexual relationship both partners consider each other as well as themselves. If no-one is comfortable with sterilisation then no-one gets sterilised but that means another decision has to be made about how to deal with joint contraception. A significant number of young men feel it is unfair to be asked/expected to wear a condom because it 'ruins sex' for them, many women who also share this view that it's an unfair thing to ask, it's a sad fact, a number of the men then blame women they sleep with for 'getting pregnant'. There are threads on here fairly frequently about couples who didn't want more DC and didn't want sterilisation where there have been accidental pregnancies that that man thinks are the woman's fault. I'm not in such a relationship but I'm not blind to what's going on around me.

A lot of those threads end up with the op being berated for not 'getting tied' or tricking her partner into a pg she must have secretly wanted.

On mumsnet?

No I've seen 'he should have got the snip' but not 'she should have got her tubes tied'

I suppose it's all shorthand for 'they should have come to a satisfactory and agreeable compromise' or used condoms.

Yes on MN.

With a good healthy dose of not having a termination would be forcing him into a baby.

Meh, the op writes I think my DH should as I have had 2 caseareans already and the op itself is easier, he thinks I should because the risks of vascetomies scare him (long term ball pain etc)

There's nothing here to suggest that if she got pregnant accidentally he would berate or blame her. I may have missed his stance on condoms. I think his point of view is perfectly valid.

No, not in the actual first post but the thread developed towards a more general discussion of attitudes towards contraception and family planning.

Well we need to counter that attitude.

Insisting that the snip is a walk in the park, any man who doesn't want a baby should have surgery, it's their turn, etc, etc, is not the way to do that.

Yeah, except I don't think anyone did say that. Some male posters jumped on the suggestion that something being risky doesn't mean it should be taken off the table for consideration was saying men are being told there are no risks and pressured to do it.

There's risks in all contraception.

You have been talking about what happens in a lot of threads/general attitudes- so can I!