FIL is a paedophile

[Choccybaby]

No easy way to say this and I've being thinking of posting for a while. My FIL was convicted recently of looking at indecent pictures of children. We've had limited contact since (unsurprisingly).
MIL who is too nice still lives with him (we did offer she could live with us but she declined)
We now rarely see them and usually only MIL but I feel guilty - FIL probably had undiagnosed Aspergers, but I still can't forgive him for all the hassle he's caused ( meetings with social workers and police etc) and he seems to want to brush it under the carpet ...

How would you explain to a child who has a relationship with a grandparent that they weren't ever allowed to be on their own with them?

If - if - someone wanted contact to continue as long as it was always supervised, they could explain it the same way we have to our son. He obviously can't play at the house of the registered sex offender at the end of the road, though he is friends in class and out of class with their little daughter.

We've said at this point that we simply don't want him playing there. When he's older, we'll say that the police told us that he had done something in the past that meant he should not be around little boys. When he's much older we can tell the full story.

I think the best thing actually is to go over and over and over the NSPCC thing about PANTS. It teaches him how to look after themselves as well as us protecting him. We'd like to move but it's simply not feasible financially at this point. But if it was someone in the family with those urges, moving wouldn't help either :/

I don't think calling people with this tendency 'animals' helps at all either. I too would rather see an environment where people who are struggling can actually access genuine help.

meerka is talking a lot of sense

whatifIdid whilst it's true, for many women, wisdom and confidence come with age, this doesn't seem to be true for the MIL who is choosing the passive route of staying with her sex-offending husband over the more RE-active course of action required to have a relationship with her son and GC. So, I didn't make a leap. The MIL is doing nothing which is the easiest thing to do in the short term if you fear change.

My friend had this (minus the conviction, but when caught with the material her Stepfather admitted it). Her mother stayed by him. His own biol children had gone NC at varying ages, some with the suggestion he had molested their chilren, but never charged/convicted.

Mother wanted to completely sweep it under the carpet - said it was all a misunderstanding, and couldn't she and the kids just put on a smiling face for family occasions.... ahhh no.

Fortunately she lives in separate country, so occasional contact wasn't possible. Stepfather had poor health, and couldn't really be left, so Mother put a lot of pressure on my friend to visit her (and stay in their house!). Friend refused, saying she had to protect her children from him, not only the risk of abuse (she completely believes his biol children/grandchildren were abused), but also finding images, friends he keeps who might come over etc. Basically thinks "why would I take my young children into the house/presence of a know paed?"

Mother is very controlling and tries to buy presents for the children - some she sends and then expects them to reply with thankyous/phone calls. Others she tells them are still in her country, "for when they next visit". Friend finds it very stressful to go NC, Mother keeps contacting her and children, and running interference & ignoring it all is hard.

So no advice, but very hard when Mother stands by her man - friend struggles to cut her mother off, but given the choice she's made, what gives her the right to put her grandchildren in his path - in the path of danger?

Meera The all-important difference is that you're explaining why you are not allowing contact between your children and the man at the end of the street. Can't you see that it doesn't work in the OP's situation, when theoretically she would be fostering a supervised relationship?

If I told my DD that someone we had contact with 'had done something in the past that meant he should not be around little boys/girls' she would hear that as 'Mummy says that person is not allowed to be around children, therefore they are dangerous and I know we're not going to be around them because Mummy keeps me safe. And now I feel scared at the thought of being around them.' How else is she supposed to hear it?! How damaging for a child to be told something isn't safe about being with family members. Learning to feel safe with family is crucial for learning to trust and distinguishing between safe adults and not-safe adults.

I am NCC with my brother who abused both me and his own daughter.

When it all came out, my DS was 7 and I just told him that we were not seeing my brother anymore as he wasn't always very nice to children and I stuck to that until recently. DS is now 10 and knows it was sexual abuse.

When no one knew about the abuse, DS was never ever left alone with my brother.

My Mum and sisters feel sorry for my brother, as he has had 'such a hard time' !!! I don't, he is a nonce and will never come near me or my child again. As far as I am concerned, he is dead.

Never mind working towards going NC with your FIL - you should already be NC for the sake of your children. Just explain to your children that FIL is. To very nice with children and you wil not see him anymore. Invite MIl round to your house to see the children on her own.

it depends on how it's handled saturnvista and on the ages, I think. Not saying I'm right here, just saying how I think we would handle it; yeah, it is a very different situation in that the man down the street is not a member of the family.

If it was a member of our family ... hmmm.

I suppose since we're talking about a situation here where the offender was directly in my family, I'd want and need to find out the situation as accurately as I could.

I don't know exactly what counts as 'indecent pictures' actually. If indecent pics consist of naked 15yo girls not doing much, that's one thing (they -are- still children so presumably a conviction could be based on that? I'd need to know, which I don't atm). If indecent pics consist of extreme hard core stuff or young children, that's different. I've got a feeling I could be flamed here, but to me there -is- a difference. I'd need to know what he was convicted exactly of because this area is so controversial that there is a great deal of misinformation and sometimes miscarriages of justice, both ways.

If it was the second sort of pictures, I'd want no further contact at all. That's the easy choice actually because the decision is clear cut.

If it was the first, it's oddly harder. Would going to a restaurant for a birthday be ok? Yeah, it probably would. Would it be okay to let the children go there alone? No.

I suppose in this sort of situation if there can be any positive way forward, the offender needs to acknowledge what they have done, not to sweep it under the carpet and to cooperate with the parents in order to have any role in the grandchildrens' life. If they are denying, minimizing or sweeping it under the carpet then it'd be time to step back completely. That would include not allowing birthday cards or email contact.

If contact was feasible, it wouldn't need discussing with the children at first, we'd just go to the meal (or whatever) and come home. If they started asking if they could go to granpa's, the answer would be no. No explanation when they are smaller. At around 9 - 10, if it was a member of our family I think I'd say No, you can't, I'll tell you why when you are older. At 15-16 I'd give them the truth.

I -think- that how the child would hear the explanation would depend on how old the child is.

The one thing that would immediately mean NC would be if Grandpa or Grandma started making comments like 'oh why don't you come over one afternoon or stay with us'. That would show me instantly that they could not be trusted because given the seriousness of the offense, you just can't start suggesting that unaccompanied children go there for an afternoon!

So it's a long and complex answer sorry, but yes, the guy at the end of the road really is a different situation from it being in the family.

I would instantly go no contact and, due to MIL choosing to stay with him, she would not be permitted unsupervised access to my kids due to the fact I couldnt trust her judgement.

I would no longer enter their home. I would no longet mention FIL or entertain any conversations about him.

It must be a lot to take in. It must be a sickening shock. But you need to (1) protect your children and (2) actively demonstrate that you see paedophillia as wrong.

goddessofsmallthings Thanks for the explanation! All good.

nor that viewing such images even means a person is a paedophile in the true sense of the word

RochelleGoyle Working with sex offenders, you should know that it doesn't actually matter what the images looked like...whether they were naked children standing, children being sexually touched/assaulted/raped/tortured they are ALL indecent images of child sexual abuse.

All the children in those photos/videos will have been groomed away from the safety of their parents, or even exposed BY their parents, perhaps kidnapped, or taught to trust their abusers (babysitters, teachers etc) all of them would have been hurt emotionally, mentally AND physically at some point. Probably hit or starved if they don't do what they are being forced to do. Damaged beyond repair in many cases. Perhaps killed in some cases.

Yes, there is a scale for images & the severity, I believe, but they are still indecent images portraying a child/ren in a sexualised situation & viewing them makes that person a paedophile in the true sense of the word because they are looking at sexualised images of a child, ergo, they are attracted to those images & children in them. So stop with the "not a paedophile" please.

Paedophile - a person who is sexually attracted to children.

How would you explain to a child who has a relationship with a grandparent that they weren't ever allowed to be on their own with them? Arguably much more damaging than no contact at all. I also wouldn't like trying to explain my decision to continue contact when they are adults.

My girls don't see my mum. Never have. DD, almost a teen, now knows exactly why & younger dd is told that she isn't a nice person & I worry that she will hurt her feelings & make her very sad. As I did with dd1. As she gets older, she will be told as dd1 was, exactly how my mother has the power to hurt her, and how she hurt me.

You definitely CAN explain to a child why they can't see someone anymore. You don't have to use graphic detail & it can be done age appropriately.

I can understand feeling sorry for your FIL and the whole situation, at the same time of course the priority is to keep your children safe.

But how would any of us feel if our grown up DS turned out to be a peadophile? Would we immediately become no contact with our own child?

This happened to a friend of mine, her DS was sent to prison, society (understandly) disowned him - should she too have disowned him?

I don't know the 'right' answer but perhaps it's something we should all think about.

Also, to reassure the OP, it is not the case that all offenders who view indecent images would necessarily progress to contact offences 'if given the chance', nor that viewing such images even means a person is a paedophile in the true sense of the word.

If a person viewing these images is not a paedophile in the true sense of the word, then presumably they are not sexually attracted to children. They are not viewing these images because of a compulsion, they are making a conscious decision to do so. Why would you do that? To satisfy a morbid curiosity? Because you can?

That makes them worse than a 'true paedophile' in my opinion. They don't feel an urge to do this but they do it anyway.

If my son were a paedophile, yes I would go No Contact with him. I could not bring myself to have contact with someone who I knew was sexually attracted to children. Irrespective of whether theyve acted on it.

I know someone who found out their son was a sex offender. He raped his teenage daughter & her friend.

He went NC & it breaks his heart. He loves his son, but he truly hates the man who did what he did.

He has heard from him a couple of times, it's mainly to tell his dad that he is ok. And his dad welcomes this, but I think it makes is harder in the long run, as his dad has to learn to live with it all, all over again.

shipshape some men seems to simply be wired that way. Other people will dispute that, but I think myself that's what it comes down to.

But someone who works with sex offenders said on here once that some men do it because it's the final taboo. The one act of rebellion that will shock everyone; the last breaking of boundaries and rules. Apparently that lead singer of Lost Prophets was like that :/

differentnameforthis If you had read my post properly you would see that nowhere did I say that the man in question is not a paedophile. I did say that he isn't automatically one. This was in response to the level of sensationalist and scare mongering statements that were being flung around. At no point did I deny the harm caused or potential for further harm, nor did I deny the abusive nature of the images. I chose my words carefully and will continue to do so.

Hello Choccy
Sometimes people feel guilty because they think they 'should' forgive someone (I don't believe you have to); sometimes they are angry, but on the surface feel sorry - or, alternatively, feel sad and sorry and need to get angry. Sounds like talking could help, as you have finally started doing here. I've experience of being watched sexually by my father when I was growing up - and now, so many years later as a therapist, experience of working with paedophile behaviour. You'd be surprised (or not, now) what goes on in some people's minds about how they think about children, what they believe about loving children, etc, etc. Sometimes it sounds like rational thinking - and sometimes it really is not. Why not find someone to talk with in private, or an organisation, or something. When something happened in my family some years ago, I suddenly felt as if I was living in a TV soap-opera - like I was no longer watching something remotely (like TV), but that it was actually in MY family. That might sound narcissistic, but it was what I felt at the time - and there is huge shame around that. Do talk to someone. Kindest regards, H.

Are people fucking serious on this thread linking ASD with paedophilia?!?!

Bloody hell antiquity, calm down. It was mentioned once in the OP and any post that has addressed it has poo poo'd any link. So no, 'people' are not linking ASD to paedophilia.

differentnameforthis You misunderstood my post. Explaining to a child that they cannot see someone at all is not the same as explaining they cannot be alone with/trust a family member with whom they're forming a relationship (of sorts).

I think that for children, NC is easier to understand.

I had a relative my parents were always wary of, was not supposed to be alone with him, they didn't like me talking to him. It was a massive family skeleton (none of my siblings knew why either) and we were given some sort of silly explanation that didn't really make sense. He continued to attend large family events etc and it was a fucking horrible situation as a child to know I'd get in trouble for talking to him, yet he'd try and talk to me and I thought I'd get in trouble for being rude if I didn't talk back. Also, having no idea of the reason, for many years I wondered if my parents were just over reacting to something, or had a personal reason/feud they were dragging us into. The relative was always very nice to me and had been very kind (in a normal way) when I was very small and before this situation started.

It was plain awkward all round and it would have been easier just to not have seen him again than try to walk the tightrope of being polite and saying hello, but not talking to him too much.

It was a mystery that has confused all us kids for years and years.

I found out recently (we are talking 40 odd years later) what it was all about. It was something sexual but not what I would consider at the dangerous end of the scale, more creepy than anything. I can understand my parents attitude. It still would have been a lot easier and less confusing for us if they'd gone NC.

RochelleGoyle Not carefully enough...how the hell can he not automatically be sexually attracted to children (definition of paedophile), when looking at images of child sexual abuse?

He is/was getting sexual kicks from looking at these images, therefore he is a paedophile.

No where did I say it did