Husband's affair - Tom is moving on

[tomatoplantproject]

I took a break from mumsnet for a little while. It has been an eventful little while. Mumsnet keeps breaking and I'm sorry but I can't link my previous threads.

My husband had an affair with an Italian, I found out over 2 months ago. I kicked him out and since then have been trying to rebuild my life whilst keeping things stable for my little girl. I have an amazing family and friends who have been looking out for me.

We have had various discussions since I found out and have been seeing a Relate counsellor. Various posters have been warning me to be wary given how he has been behaving.

He was due to go to Spain last week on his own for a holiday - he cancelled at the very last minute after I asked him not to go and has been spending time with dd and I. Things were starting to thaw between us and we were building at least a friendship.

I had a job interview this evening and he did dd's bedtime routine for me. When I came home he sat me down and told me he was going to be honest with me. He has been in touch with the Italian Job since I found out, and they were due to go to Spain to see if they had a long term future. He pulled out on the Sunday after I asked him not to go.

I won't ever trust him ever again, and he hasn't put me first or respected my wishes that he is not in touch with her. So I am done. Once and for all. I can now move on.

You were all right. I just wasn't ready to believe you.

It is good that you are terrified that she will get pregnant - it means you have pre-empted it and will not be in utter shock when/if it happens.

Assume that it will happen - assume the worst. "Prepare for the Worst and Hope for the Best"

Other MNers who have walked this path will share the other shockers likely to come your way.....

But you are strong and good - your DD and all of your F&F (and his F&F) - see this and know this....your DD has a splendid moral compass to learn from.

Take strength from this.

Tom, you wont lose your DD. Your husband (and whoever he ends up with in future) may borrow her every weekend for a wee while but you will never lose her. I loved my mum all the more because of how hard she tried for me and my sister after her marriage broke down and your wee girl will as well.

As for DD learning about morals - these things have a way of working out and what she learns will be from you, her role model. People will say she's her mothers child - and she will be because the person you are will be the making of her.

Your husband having another child regardless of who it is he's with - there really is nothing anyone can say to make you feel better about the possibility and Im so sorry you're having to live this particular heartbreak. But like blood says, I think if the worst ever happened you'd be able to live it and get through it. It would still hurt but I think you'd know yourself well enough by then to be able to say - I'll get over this, Im going to be ok. And you would. You really would.

xxxxx

Miraculously dd has just rolled over after 1 story (and 10 let it goes) so I've now read properly.

Sansoora - I think you're amazing. Why anyone wouldn't want you in their team and you having their back is utterly beyond me.

I'm feeling 100 times better this evening than I have been. SHL is first day back from hols so papers in the post tomorrow and next wednesday we have a financial tactics meeting. Having a proper decision and taking action feels good - I knew it wasn't right to take him back but felt paralysed, and at least now the decision is so firmly a no-brainer I just have to get through.

I don't care if they stay together. She's just a deluded tramp and has done so much damage its hardly as if she is an innocent party who needs protecting. My motivation would be to upset him sufficiently that he stays away from me, and once we get going on money I'm sure that will happen.

And then yes, maybe drop a bomb or two in due course.

To give a bit more context, I have struggled and struggled to give him up because I have to give up my dream of more children. I honestly don't think I have the time or ability to meet someone and get to know, love and trust to be able to have more littlies. I got upset at the weekend when one of my besties told me she is having another one, and that is someone I have known and loved for years and years and who I am delighted for.

For dd to have blood ties with a union of theirs is just shocking to think about. I'd have to facilitate contact. How I do that with a smile on my face is just beyond me.

Cross posted again. Thank you both. That means the world.

I honestly don't know what I would have done without you lovely generous people at my back. Xx

Take it step by step and deal with each issue as it comes up, I doubt very much that he would want to be a father agin anytime in the near future

Please remember Tom that one day you will have completely moved on from this, you will be happy and content and nothing they do will be able to touch you

On a more serious note...how the hell are you coping with the arrival of Let it Go in your life!!!!!!!!! One of the many times I am very glad I have a boy!

Tom, its late here and I have a very early start tomorrow so if you don't mind Im going to say goodnight. I hate buggering off like this but I know there are other ladies out there who'll keep you company and share their thoughts with you.

I hope the wee one's asleep now and you can get some 'me' time.

xxxxxx

Night night lovely san.

I have a good friend coming round in a bit. One of the good things about this not being the first time is that the support team are swinging into action like a well practised machine. So I will have some real life company in a bit (and she has a juicy story to tell so it won't all be me me me).

Let it Go... I've done my best to avoid it but now its in full force. I think I'm just going to have to live it for now.

Evening

Today again is better. There is relief in the decision being made and I've been getting a huge amount more support now that everything is out in the open.

My dear old dad has also told me not to say anything, to keep the moral high ground and not to contact her. I have been in touch over email with him about contact with dd for the foreseeable and have been channelling my inner work goddess. Polite and formal and ever so reasonable. Absolutely no barbed comments (although my fingers kept adding them in accidentally).

The divorce paperwork should be landing on his mat to greet him when he gets in tomorrow evening. I think I need some tactics for not being bothered about his reaction, because I'm all angsty about it.

Glad today is a bit better, Tom. Yes, it's always more anxiety making awaiting someone's response when you know they might be angry, more so than once you've got it, I find. I think there's a lot to be said for having one channel of communication, a new phone or new email address, specifically for him, and blocking him on your normal one, so you're not always wary of getting some barrage of shit. You can check it when you feel strong. But don't worry. What he thinks is irrelevant to you now. You could never stoop as low as he has, time and time again, he can't touch you and has no right to ever judge you in any way again.

Thank you, lovely blood.

I think I'm nervous too because it's the start if something I have never done before and I never thought I would have to do. I just know that the shit and the fan are about to make contact.

I reckon he might go sorrowful before angry.

Whatever his response, try not to let it get to you. Stay firm on your path.

I honestly don't think anything he could do or say would make me change my mind now. Before I found out I was at best ambivalent about him and now I feel like yet another layer has been revealed to expose who he really is.

Rotten to the core. He must have wanted me as his wife because I reflected him in a good light and preserved his image as a family man and his business as one with family values.

Its my day off today so dd and I can have a fun day. I need to start on a paperwork mission today too which hopefully won't be much more than updating what I did in the summer.

Rotten to the core. He must have wanted me as his wife because I reflected him in a good light and preserved his image as a family man and his business as one with family values.

I understand this only too well but please don't write off the fact he probably did have feelings for you in his own weird way. People have consistently said this to me and I would bat it away because it seemed so unlikely after what had gone on. In fact I didn't want to have been loved by such a person. But now Im a bit further down the line Im inclined to agree with them - though sadly his own weird way was not what a marriage needed in order to be successful.

You were loved and you were wanted. Don't take that away from yourself altogether.

He has a funny way of showing it.

If he had an ounce of actual consideration for me he would have let me walk away in the summer when he knew she was going to be in London rather than begging me to give it one last go. I told him several times that this yoyoing between us was torture and cruel, and he knew full well the level of hurt he had already caused.

I feel like I have mug written all over my forehead for not realising she was still in the picture sooner.

I need to stop turning it over in my head because its not healthy for me. I feel like it has all clicked about what you had all told me before about keeping myself away and safe from him.

Hi Tomato your story sounds very similar to mine. STBEX left in the New Year, found out in April that he was having an affair and has then flitted between me and OW I don't know how many times since. We have been divorced since August but he finished with OW again 4 weeks ago and still wanted to try and make it work with me I blame myself and OW for allowing all this flitting to continue because we both let him keep coming back to one and then when that doesn't work the other has taken him back. Anyway just wanted to send you hugs and let you know that you're not alone in this shit state of affairs!! It's now 10 months down the line and it's only now I am really starting to show strength and finally let him go properly. I've always let myself get dragged into text conversations with him or have used any excuse to text him but I know enough is enough and he is just stopping me from getting on with my life!

No, you're not a mug. If you hold a picture very close to your eyes you can't see what it is until you stand back and look at it from further away.

We're not up close so we can see what's happening before you do. Now you're retreating from him step by step things are getting clearer and you're seeing the whole picture too.

Don't be too hard on yourself.

Dont ever feel like a mug for not understanding the more twisted ways of others. Its far better to be mugged than to be the one who does the mugging.

I still believe you were loved by your husband in his own way but as I said previously it wasn't in a way that was the norm.

Re the woman being in London and him begging you to take him back. Im of the opinion that if you had taken him back he would have left you a wee while later. You see, you don't thwart these men and as long it was him ending the relationship he would be ok with it.

Im really sorry.

You're not a mug, tom. It's all too common. And although I agree with Sansoora that love takes many forms, I think this reframing of him to see his selfishness and narcissism as part of who he has always been is a useful element of detaching, as well as being true. It's the splitting people into 'before' and 'afters' that never works and is never really true that causes real psychological confusion and pain.

You've dealt with all this brilliantly. Many, many people take the DH back because they are afraid of being on their own and the dual relationship always continues, because the truth has never been fully executed. As Sansoora points out, this would either have led to him leaving you for her and doubling down on the pain, your discovery of this and so total betrayal, or quiet continuation of both lives again. Whatever happened you would have been very vulnerable.

Yes detach detach detach. (to the tune of #perhaps perhaps perhaps!) Almost no relationship that ends can be endured without a period of detachment. Often couples say they'll go straight to being friends but often this gets painful or complicated for at least one person. I would suggest be wary of getting your strength back and being hit by him again. What happens when we get strong is we think, of I can be friends no problem, look at me, I've got my self back and then WHAM another body slam to the heart.

Although Mumsnet can often be and seem very prescriptive and sanctimonious, as Tempus says above, there is a wisdom to objectivity, particularly when it comes to human behaviour and people who are prone to lying. This is because actions are actually the best definer of what someone is thinking and doing than anything else. When you can perceive a story from an action-only point of view (as these threads allow, they're just, here's what happened) it's actually very obvious what's going on. When one is inside the experience and living it, words and emotions and atmosphere are WAY more powerful. It's very hard to be in a room with someone you feel close to and make a judgement based on their overall actions rather than emotion or conversation. Almost impossible. And since past behaviour is the best predictor of future behaviour (not always but often), it means one is right more than one is wrong on these things and where they're heading.

I think your DH is really appearance based, very superficial in many ways, but crucially builds a lot of his value on looking at his own reflection in the eyes of others. That's why it's so hard for him to let got of OW, of your love, of even the counsellor's esteem when he felt he had to tell you about the holiday after he told her. All his actions have been deceitful, hollow and self-protective selfishness. He will be lovely to you in words and gesture if it means the reflection in your eyes of him is still handsome. Beware this. He will also throw a tantrum when it goes the other way. Let it die out. Let him be left with no reflection.

Great to hear you sounding more in control Tom. I've been with you from the beginning, but had to re-register during the hacking stuff.....I'm Cate.

It's good that you are pre-empting what you feel will be his reaction. If you can stay one step ahead, that will help. Cling on tightly to the knowledge that, far from being a mug, you are a loving, trusting woman, who has been betrayed in the worst possible way. It was obvious from your very first post that this man - spit - was not worthy of you. I believe that it's always best to take the time to let that knowledge truly register. It means you get ongoing - albeit painful - confirmation of the fact. If you have a knee jerk reaction, and end things immediately, it can leave you with some doubts and what ifs.

You have handled the whole situation with amazing dignity. You are a woman, I believe, with a lot of love to give. My wish for you now is that you find someone worthy of that love. I believe you will.......I did!x.

PS. Anyone heard from Mama? I used to love her posts.

It's the splitting people into 'before' and 'afters' that never works and is never really true that causes real psychological confusion and pain.

I agree with this totally and facing up to what a person has always been until they couldn't hide it anymore is very difficult. It can also be very difficult to get other people such as family to take on board that who/what they have been dealing with for years is a facade. I used to feel so stupid when people would quite rightly say so why have you only discovered this now? Its a complete and utter heart head fuck. One that's very far removed from the normal kind. Not that Im implying the normal kind is any easier. In fact it was only when I googled 'born without a soul' that I started to realise what I'd been dealing with and it was only when I went to a therapist/psychiatrist and said I think I need to be treated as someone getting over a lifetime spent with a sociopath/psychopath that I was able to start moving on. I'd previously had counselling as the wife of an ordinary garden gnome kind of cheat and the difference was immense.

So much of what Blood has said is spot on and I wish I'd read it a few years ago but even now, a couple of years down the track, its worth its weight in gold. And I tell you - advice like hers would cost you a bloody fortune in an office.

Oh and I really didn't mean to make a play with words up there. It just happened .

Anyone heard from Mama? I used to love her posts.

No. Nothing. And Ive tried messaging her a few times even though she drove me potty. I do wonder how she is getting on. We had an awful lot in common and I hope her silence doesn't mean she's nursing another broken heart.

Thank you so much everyone. Your advice and words of wisdom are truly helping.

Annie - I'm so sorry you are following in my footsteps. And Rosy/Cate so nice to see you.

Blood - you are amazing - and Tempus too - with how you can see things for what they are, as it were. Its been very difficult being sat across the table from someone I loved and trusted with everything and knowing I shouldn't be believing him but at the same time HAVING to believe him. I don't know if that makes sense or not.

I haven't heard a peep from mama either. I hope she's ok.

One of the things which has been hard is that everyone who knows him have all expressed how shocked they are at his behaviour. I haven't had one friend yet who has said they thought there was something not quite right. I'm having to deal with their disbelief and shock as part of the whole process of telling people. Up until the weekend I hadn't ever quite lost hope that we would get together and so had been protecting him with wider friends and family, and the secret is now well and truly out. So that is tough having to say that yes, he has done this, and no he isn't one of life's good guys.

I don't intend to see him for a very long time. Handovers with dd I will make straightforward and whilst he wants to meet to sort out access I have said no, and emailed him a list of dates. I know that when I have seen him I have become vulnerable and I cannot open that chink again.

San - I have a suspicion that he was reeling me back in so that he could be the one to make the decision about our future.

And I love a play on words

Sorry, Tom. That's really rough. I think it's worth bearing in mind that there's a cruel irony when you're dealing with someone who's narcissistic like this. They like control and they hate feeling bad about themselves. So literally a lot of their life is about making other people think well of them, on the surface. The very thing that is problematic and shockingly duplicitous about him is THE VERY THING that means other people will be surprised by this news. That's a horrible double bind. Being duplicitious and infidelitous is actually positively correlated with being able to make a good impression on others. It's the same set of skills. That's awful for the betrayed because there's all this surprise and judgement to deal with. But let the facts and actions speak for themselves. They really do. You don't have to protect him anymore. Switch to protecting yourself.

Other thing to bear in mind is that people are still shockingly cautious of supporting marriage break-up, even when there's massive infidelity involved. I was so so surprised when it happened in my family. People are scared for you and don't want their own lives to change as a result and people will always support no change rather than feel responsible and to blame for a bad choice being made. So often people are subconsciously primed in the direction of what's easiest for them, the marriage staying together, leading them to still find praise for the cheater or find excuses. It's awful and by no means total but it's really surprised me in my own life, I've even felt it on occasion myself. That thing also where you don't want to slag off their ex because you think they may get back together.

If you let them know how hurt and how angry you are with him , that will help give them permission to show their own fury more in support. People are often just wary of change or of making you feel foolish for having been with him in the first place.

Oh and thanks Sans!