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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Husband's affair - Tom is moving on

910 replies

tomatoplantproject · 30/06/2015 22:14

I took a break from mumsnet for a little while. It has been an eventful little while. Mumsnet keeps breaking and I'm sorry but I can't link my previous threads.

My husband had an affair with an Italian, I found out over 2 months ago. I kicked him out and since then have been trying to rebuild my life whilst keeping things stable for my little girl. I have an amazing family and friends who have been looking out for me.

We have had various discussions since I found out and have been seeing a Relate counsellor. Various posters have been warning me to be wary given how he has been behaving.

He was due to go to Spain last week on his own for a holiday - he cancelled at the very last minute after I asked him not to go and has been spending time with dd and I. Things were starting to thaw between us and we were building at least a friendship.

I had a job interview this evening and he did dd's bedtime routine for me. When I came home he sat me down and told me he was going to be honest with me. He has been in touch with the Italian Job since I found out, and they were due to go to Spain to see if they had a long term future. He pulled out on the Sunday after I asked him not to go.

I won't ever trust him ever again, and he hasn't put me first or respected my wishes that he is not in touch with her. So I am done. Once and for all. I can now move on.

You were all right. I just wasn't ready to believe you.

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tomatoplantproject · 02/09/2015 15:17

And if you'd asked a year ago what I would change, I would have said:
He was a lot messier than me
He went out and "networked" (read that as drank a lot) once or twice a week
We needed more time as a couple just us going out without others around
I needed more time to myself away from dd and space to pursue my own things.

But I thought some of this was not getting the balance right rather than fundamental issues.

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tomatoplantproject · 02/09/2015 15:19

His behaviour changed 100% when his affair started.

Hand on heart I'm trying to be honest and objective. I don't think I have rose tinted glasses on. We were a good match for each other and there was a huge amount of love. I was so very shocked when I realised he had risked it all.

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tomatoplantproject · 02/09/2015 15:25

Sorry its all coming out. The other thing is that he seemed happiest when there was a "project" - a house to renovate. I was the one who just wanted to enjoy living in a nice house for a while and he was always pushing for the next one. Its like as soon as the project was done, I wanted to enjoy living in it and he wanted to get moving to a bigger, better one. I had said he should focus his energies on work and building the business rather than making me keep moving.

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tomatoplantproject · 02/09/2015 15:28

I have felt though more like myself than at any time since I got pregnant with dd.

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BloodontheTracks · 02/09/2015 16:14

"He used to push me more to going out and seeing my friends rather than making it hard and isolating me.

My biggest criticism was the amount of attention his work and networking took."

I'm sure you're not rose-tinting it, tom. what you say is really interesting. The things that jump out for thinking about are the fact that he is clearly driven, an achiever and has a will to move on to bigger and better all the time. He has 'his eye on the prize' as my mum used to say! Also that he spent a lot of time away from you 'networking' and encouraged you to have separate life too. This isn't totally terrible but it does speak of someone who compartmentalises massively. Lots of people would take their partner with them for such occasions. If you combine a compartmentaliser with someone who's entitled in the driven, thrusting way you describe, you get someone who is very very vulnerable (!) to infidelity generally. Him pushing you to seek out your own social circle isn't necessarily trying to do right by you, but fits totally with someone who doesn't want to feel bad about himself. He wants you to take responsibility for your own social needs, so he can continue fulfilling his own in whatever way, rather than include you in his.

From what you've described I think he is a man who wants to do whatever he wants, and that includes having a wife who is a source of stability and fidelity and loyalty at home. I don't think from your description, he has ever been prone to sacrificing anything important for anyone else. It just depends whether you are prepared to fit in the slot that he wants to fit in. It's the definition of entitled. When you say messy, I think 'lives how he likes and expects others to clean up after him'.
And I wonder if he can see it. That's why, I think, when you sit with him there is an undercurrent and understanding that you will get back together. Because that is, all in all, what is best for him. So that is what he wants and expects. And that is how he has lived his life. Purely from his point of view, with an expectation that others around him will fit in to it. And perhaps they have tended to.

Let's not forget you discovered the affair, he didn't tell you. If this was an aberrant, one off thing that had completely shaken his sense of self that he could see no way out of, it's more likely he would have told you, however difficult, to try and find a way through it. As it is, I think he has always approached things in this way, it is you who had blinkers fall from your eyes. I think he would have to completely want to alter the way he has lived until now and fundamentals about himself and his character. It's not just a dynamic about who has taken most control of things, it's sort of a much larger version of that. I think he has always been the protagonist in this marriage, and in his life. Of course everyone sort of feels that, but most people learn early on that other people are real and as central as they are, and they cannot have everything or everyone they want whenever they want.

'Respectful' is all well and good and easy when the other person is not restricting you in any way (because they don't know what's going on). I know it is horrible to think about but I really think he has probably always lived this way, doing whatever he wants away from you, and that is why, unless he can own that ultimately, admit to it, and find a new, genuine, humbler him at this late stage of his life, you may find yourself in his sidecar again.

PiecesOfCake · 02/09/2015 16:27

Sansoora thank you for no gunning Grin.

Tom it's not stupid, or irrational.

I speak from my individual experience in that at age 38 this was my first and last chance. I mourn for the children that DP and I didn't have (3 years of trying after having DD, with 2 miscarriages) which is why I was encouraging Tom to stick with it "at her age" if she could and she wanted to try for another child and her (D)P was willing.

Practically speaking you could always split with him again later, (solid post-nup in place) but you may not have another chance to try for children again. As I have sadly discovered, Mother Nature can be cruel.

However, I think you have moved further on since my post and I do not want to upset the apple-cart if you have your mind made up!

Christinayangstwistedsista · 02/09/2015 17:06

Tom

I think Blood, as usual, is spot on

Has he explained any of his behaviour to you?

tomatoplantproject · 02/09/2015 17:21

Thank you blood. Thats a hugely insightful post. I really need to think about it. You have explained how I have been completely blindsided which has helped enormously. Also how I have to get a couple of days post every discussion to find my own voice again.

It wouldn't be fair on anyone to bring a child into a marriage knowing we would then split up.

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tomatoplantproject · 02/09/2015 17:23

Christina - he hasn't. More that he is as surprised as anyone that he would have an affair. Its not in his self image.

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Christinayangstwistedsista · 02/09/2015 17:47

it wouldn't be fair on anyone to bring a child into a marriage knowing we would then split up

He was willing to do it though, wasn't he? While trying to get you pregnant he was attending a counsellor to decide on you or the ow....it's these kind of actions that just make my mind boggle!

tomatoplantproject · 02/09/2015 18:04

He was. One of the things I've completely struggled with is the total disregard for my health which is ongoing. The general anaesthetic. The emotional carnage which I'm dealing with. I am slightly surprised I've not had a breakdown as a result of this and the stress recurs every time he talks, and I've told him to back off because of the strain.

Of course the massive question is can he change?? And then what would change look like, how would I know, am I being a mug for even asking if he can change?

My mums view is to cut an extraordinarily favourable deal with a post nup which will then drive out whether he can put himself to one side.

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Christinayangstwistedsista · 02/09/2015 18:17

To be honest I think you are still reeling and still in shock and in desperate need of some recovery time

You sound as if your emotions are all over the place and your mind swings back and forth each day, which is all perfectly natural given the circumstances. My gut instinct is that you need peace and quiet and time to heal, it's like an illness, your body and mind needs to get back on an even keel again xx

tomatoplantproject · 02/09/2015 18:26

I think thats it Christina, and every single time I start to get to an ok place he comes along with another big sledgehammer, which is what I meant about not taking care of my mental health.

One of the things I'm cross about is that I went back to my parents knowing I needed to take the pressure off for a few days, and its safe to do it there because dd is super happy and cared for. And along he comes to create yet more storms.

I should have said no to seeing him. I knew it was a bad idea and stupid.

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Christinayangstwistedsista · 02/09/2015 18:31

How are you coping with being back at work?

Sansoora · 02/09/2015 18:40

Tom, whereas you would never have been barefoot, pregnant, and tied to the kitchen sink he was more than likely going along with baby plans in order to tie you to him even more.

tomatoplantproject · 02/09/2015 18:42

I've been finding it exhausting being back. I think its because there is so much to learn, so many people to make a good early impression with, and dd's tantrums at either end of the day.

I'm sure it will get much easier as I settle in, but these first few weeks have been hard and I think I won't really be able to relax until christmas time, hence my taking the opportunity for a few days in the country r+r.

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tomatoplantproject · 02/09/2015 18:44

San - perhaps. I think it goes nicely with his image of himself as a family man.

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CateCadiz · 02/09/2015 18:55

Unfortunately Tom, each time you capitulate and see him, you are handing all your power over to him once again. He knows this, and is playing on it. Result.....you are back where you started, confused and doubting yourself. The only thing you seem quite clear on, and rightly so, is the financial side of things. Perhaps you should do as you suggested and get that all confirmed, and let the actual divorce ride for now. Do you feel that you need to divorce for adultery?

tomatoplantproject · 02/09/2015 20:09

I don't need to divorce for adultery. The solicitor said I have enough for doing it on the grounds of unreasonable behaviour and its very straightforward.

Getting finances sorted would give me peace of mind.

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Twinklestein · 02/09/2015 21:13

What he is doing to you is particularly cruel. This cat and mouse is really hard to watch. This on it's own would be a dealbreaker for me on top of all the others.

When you ask if he could change, he doesn't ever give any evidence of doing so, or having the slightest intention to. He talks remorse, but continues the same patterns, with no regard to your emotional wellbeing whatsoever. He's only concerned with the best outcome for him, he doesn't seem to know what that is, and frankly at this point, I'd say neither of them are right.

I don't think he wants either of you enough to jump one way or another and mean it.

Twinklestein · 02/09/2015 21:16

But he's afraid of being alone, so he keeps swatting you both with his paws, fascinated by the reaction, but not really involved.

tomatoplantproject · 02/09/2015 22:22

Twinkle - it has felt very cruel. I told him a while ago it was like torture but he didn't stop.

I have been to see the counsellor. She was very helpful. I'm going to divorce him - create some proper space for myself to breathe for a while, like whoever suggeated it upstream put this broken marriage to one side, and focus on things which are important to me. If he changes we shall see but I'm no longer the same person who married him and I don't recognise him any longer.

I'm going to sit with the decision for a few weeks. I have another session with her in 3 weeks so will go back and reevaluate before telling him. In the meantime I am going to tell him to back off. I think its safe to say not all relate counsellors are pro marriage regardless.

And thank goodness. My head is still again.

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Twinklestein · 02/09/2015 22:48

I don't think you should feel precipitated into divorcing him just to protect yourself. Clearly, this is further evidence of his arseholery, but you should feel free to take as much time as you need to make peace with your decision, irrespective of his shenanigans, even if you're 90% sure which way you'll go.

If you need to him to stay away, then that's what he's got to do.

BloodontheTracks · 03/09/2015 11:50

Tom, it's downright impressive you haven't had a breakdown or something similar. And it's very astute of you to notice how the affair doesn't fit into his self-image. I think his self-image is tremendously important to him, possibly more than other people, though I couldn't say for sure. That's why it's useful to think of those occasions where he says or does something that seems kind or loving, and think - does this also improve his own self-image - because it's quite likely THAT is the reason he's doing it. The only one time I thought better of him to be honest was when he told you about the holiday. That's literally the only occasion (driven by the counsellor, who, importantly, I think you were also seeing?) he has sacrificed his own self-image at all. Everything else has been about him.

To deal with someone like that, it requires a similar level of self-protection, which obviously you are sensing, hence wanting to take time and strengthen yourself.

Good for you, anyway.

BloodontheTracks · 03/09/2015 12:15

The reason I say importantly about the counsellor knowing the truth about the holiday is that it ALSO speaks to a valuing of self-image above everything. It would have been very hard for his self-image to go back into a room with someone who KNEW he had been lying so horrifically about his romantic time away with someone else, if he didn't tell tom. Once he had admitted that, his ego was in a double bind or having Tom think badly of him, or the counsellor.
I Wonder if he sort of only polices his morals from the outside, if you see what you mean. Like he conducted a long term affair for a long time without feeling the massive shame and 'surprise' he now claims about it, now that there is consequence, judgement from other people, outside of him. Where was all this during the affair, during the plans to be together on holiday with OW. It surfaces only when he sees his self-image dented from the outside. That's a very very dangerous person to be with. I've known one very well, was in a relationship with one. It was weird because there was also something child-like about him, spoilt maybe, almost like he was just programmed to move forward voraciously, set on 'take' until someone imposed a line and said, this isn't okay, when he'd stop, all surprised and be like, 'oh, that's not okay is it? Okay, well you should have told me.' It's quite a headfuck. No taking responsibility internally.

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