Husband's affair - Tom is moving on

[tomatoplantproject]

I took a break from mumsnet for a little while. It has been an eventful little while. Mumsnet keeps breaking and I'm sorry but I can't link my previous threads.

My husband had an affair with an Italian, I found out over 2 months ago. I kicked him out and since then have been trying to rebuild my life whilst keeping things stable for my little girl. I have an amazing family and friends who have been looking out for me.

We have had various discussions since I found out and have been seeing a Relate counsellor. Various posters have been warning me to be wary given how he has been behaving.

He was due to go to Spain last week on his own for a holiday - he cancelled at the very last minute after I asked him not to go and has been spending time with dd and I. Things were starting to thaw between us and we were building at least a friendship.

I had a job interview this evening and he did dd's bedtime routine for me. When I came home he sat me down and told me he was going to be honest with me. He has been in touch with the Italian Job since I found out, and they were due to go to Spain to see if they had a long term future. He pulled out on the Sunday after I asked him not to go.

I won't ever trust him ever again, and he hasn't put me first or respected my wishes that he is not in touch with her. So I am done. Once and for all. I can now move on.

You were all right. I just wasn't ready to believe you.

More mind games. Detach, detach, detach.

Look at it this way:

A. He is going to Milan with her and she is still interested. Then that will play out by itself and there is nothing you can do but just sit and watch the train wreck happen. Think of how his family will react if he tries to develop this relationship knowing what they now know. His little love bubble will burst very quickly. Nothing like cold hard reality to dampen the romance, especially when he doesn't have the spare cash for big romantic gestures because he is paying the correct support for his daughter. As a PP said, if this is the case then you know for sure all his faux emotion is bullshit and he is nothing but a liar. You know that you simply cannot trust a word he says.

Or

B. He is lying to you and she is long gone. Then he is a sad pathetic manipulative little worm who twisting the knife in you to get you under control.

Either way he doesn't come out looking too good does he!

A wise person once said when someone shows you who they really are believe them.

You can do this. You must do this. There is no way back only forward.

Get legal advice and start disconnecting from him emotionally and financially. Stop him coming into the house, as you say he can collect DD from nursery and take her back to his place. You need space and a safe place away from his manipulation. You must be prepared though when you do this his behaviour may get worse. He doesn't want you to stand on your own two feet, you are still in his mind his back up plan. He probably thinks it's only a matter of time before jealousy forces you to take him back. Stand firm, put boundaries in place and look after yourself.

Positive vibes from the jingly jangly jungle!!

P.s I like zebe but my little boy is most definitely a raa raa fan. His little lion roar is just so uber cute!! Glad it's not just me that has a little one who thinks it is compulsive viewing

Bless you RaaRaa. I like Topsy. I kind of identify with her bookishness! We haven't been spending as much time there as we used to. Its all about Peppa these days.

I've been having a conversation with my mum about honesty. She drummed being truthful into us when we were little. She remembers him as being a smiley little boy, and later having a conversation about something with him and him admitting to telling little white lies. He has a charm and a way about him which he has likely used as a facade for telling lies, big and small, white and black, his whole life. This affair was just an extension of that.

He was so good he deceived me for a long time, goodness knows what about.

When he said he compromised when we got married, he either did but lied to me about it at the time or didn't and lied later on to say he did. Its all part and parcel. And our conversations since then have been full of bullshit too. He has been saying enough to keep me going, feeding me lie after lie hoping I wouldn't question him too much.

I have said to several friends that if they stay together it will be an absolute car crash. A hot headed Italian moving to the UK, away from family and friends, the long winters, and a partner who promises the world but is torn apart financially and emotionally trying to support too many people and keeping the business going? His family wishing she were someone else? His friends being nice enough but not properly welcoming? And his ex there, very obviously not a lonely downtrodden little mouse? No thank you.

This whole Milan business? To me its just another nail in the coffin. Bash it in? "I've just broken your heart but are you ok? Me? I'm fine thanks - off to Milan but I'm keeping you guessing about the rest".

His beloved friends and family will get just enough truth from me to keep them from ever trusting him again.

I have struggled and struggled to match the two sides of someone I loved. Several of you have kept saying it to me but I get it now. The person I thought I loved was an image. A beautifully crafted persona. Well hidden underneath was the true him. I don't know who he really is but I know he isn't honest or gentle or compassionate.

So there we go. It looks very much like Tom is shutting the door very gently on any chance of a reconciliation. That's ok.

One final thing, if this is what rock bottom is like, I'm going to be fine. Things have to get better from now on. I can very easily live with the decisions I have made over recent months - if I hadn't gone through this torture over the last couple of months I would have been far more open to future manipulation.

Tom I have been following your threads from the start and just want to say how incredibly strong I think you are. You are a true inspiration for anyone going through similar circumstances and I wish you the best for the future. If I ever have to go through something like this I only hope I can see things as objectively and as clearly as you have seen them. You are one smart lady.

Your stupid stbx doesn't realise what an amazing woman he has given up but one day it will hit him with full force. The roles really will reverse in time and you will be the truly happy one while his selfishness lands him a lonely and miserable existence. I am staggered at how appallingly he has treated you. Each time I read your posts I think he can't sink any lower and yet he does! Truly pathetic and needlessly cruel!

The only way is up now. Sending you and your little un big hugs and

Hey Tom, been out of radio contact for a couple of weeks and so pleased to see your updates. Not because of their content but because you are further along than last month and getting closer to a better resolution for yourself and your DD.

Your Ex's pattern of behaviour is utterly heart-breaking for you. How dare he continue to lie when your DD's future is in the palm of his hands [anger]! His selfishness has reached new heights and the fact that he continued to hedge his bets after the affair was out in the open tells you that he has little respect for you. So sad, but true.

I don't know who suggested it but its often said that it is the stronger partner who enables the other to take career risks... sort of is the 'boiler room' of the marriage. When success comes, the ego enters stage right and an feeling of being invincible creeps in - after all, why wouldn't you want to hang on to this successful, cosmopolitan man-about-town? OK, he might dabble in the odd affair/risky behaviour but because he is living the high-flying dream, he can have his cake and eat it. He's got the loving wife installed at home and is creating the perfect family unit housed in the perfectly designed home with edgy concrete floors. Never for a moment did he think that you might want exclusivity!! He was giving you the dream home life - you were actually lucky in his eyes.

What has come to light over the last couple of weeks is truly devastating and you are the only one who can decide what is going to be best for you in the long term. The continuing deception and crocodile tears seem to be par for the course.

The thing which depresses me more than anything else is the betrayal of your DD. This innocent little darling, brought into the world by him and apparently the apple of his eye. Thankfully she is young and you can manage the story more easily but to steal the innocence of the one person who should matter most to him in this world is unforgiveable. Betraying the mother of your child is despicable and is something he will have to live with. When he was lining up his second option on the Spanish jaunt, the Italian job was still way above his own flesh and blood in the love stakes. At the moment, he doesn't deserve to be her father.

Beautiful post, Tom. Very insightful and moving. Have a great weekend.

For you Tom

xxxxx

His family wishing she were someone else?

Yes because on top of them missing you I think you'll find they're aware of his true persona and losing you will be a constant reminder to them that he's very damaged.

Its how things have panned out here.

My husband turns up in out home town once a week on business for about 48 hours then leaves again back to where our Head Office is. Its the reverse of how it when we were together. We know the town which is in another country 4 hours drive from here but if my children are in that town, and we're there often, they couldn't pop into see their dad because no one knows where he lives. Does he live with the OW and their child? Who knows? But we doubt it given immigration procedures.

So how has it all panned out for him? Well he's someone my children see for a couple of hours a month and no questions about his life are allowed. Not even when they say they worry about him and they should know where he lives etc. So people may think he left our hometown to set up house with the OW but I doubt it very much. The reality is that he left our hometown because I was his respectability, his cover so to speak, and when I took that away from him within a few months he had to run away. Not that he wanted anyone to know we are separated though some of the family now know and know why. Other just accept there is a situation and don't mention it.

Its Eid next week and as usual I'll be having the extended family in the house for Eid breakfast and by mid-day I'll have fed 70 or so people a feast. They haven't stopped coming because my husband is no longer here, in fact its the opposite because they've actually gone out of there way to show how much they love me and respect me. Im always getting a squeeze whilst they keep they're eyes down towards the floor. They don't really want to talk badly about my husband and thats the only way they can say what they want to say without using words. Ive also had one of the family elders from the village come in and lay his headwear at my feet.

My husband could never bring the OW here, and not just because of immigration procedures. My children have told him they'd run her out of town and as their brother would be with her its best he doesn't put him in a horrible situation because he's their brother and as much in a horrible situation as they are. His family would never accept her and that has been made very clear. But most of all he would be a laughing stock. A walking cliche. People would look at him and say - oh dear god, look what he's with, and look at what he lost. He wouldn't be able to live the life he put into motion and its why whatever might be going on with the OW its done very far away from here. They are more than likely skulking around like thieves. Or, and I think this is better for the wee boy, she's in the Philippines living the life of riley off her maintenance and young men are lining up round the house for her given her maintenance is more than what the Philippines president earns, then every couple of months my husband flies in for no more than the 4 days he will travel somewhere that isn't a business trip.

What a pair of winners eh? And I doubt very much its all going to be hunky dory in your husbands life as well.

Weebirdie - I think you are one amazing lady. His family must be grateful to him for one thing - bringing you into their lives. And 70 people? Please tell me you have help?!

I realised something earlier. I think he thrives on having drama in his life - his ex wasn't easy (which I have heard from several sources) and he accused me a while ago of not being hot headed. I thought with hindsight he was comparing me directly with the Italian Job, and maybe he was, but I think he was also bemoaning the lack of drama in his life. The fact is that I am not a drama llama and so maybe life did get boring for him. Anyway, he has enough drama to last him a lifetime.

It has been great to get away for a few days. Dd and I are fully capable of navigating the full spectrum of public transport. She's also been bonding with her grandparents and has been incredibly sweet and well behaved.

My parents have been hugely supportive. Very balanced, very thoughtful and 100% on my side. We've got several visits each way in the diary so I have them around a bit more. I have a feeling I am going to need it as I sort out the difficult stuff.

Pleased to hear you and DD had a good weekend away. I am sure it was good to have your parents look after you for a few days and great you will have them around more to help support you.

Some couples do seem to thrive on drama, I think we all know some of those, I would find it exhausting personally.

I hope in the next few weeks you are able to find a bit of peace with yourself. Once the initial devastation had eased I found peace with my decision to end my marriage. That constant agonising over what to do, trying to get the truth from him, wondering if he's lying or not and whether I could trust him in the future was horrific.

I have never doubted my decision because he could never be the man I thought he was, in truth he never was I just didn't realise it. However, much you would like things to be different, they won't be. A man who was capable of understanding the hurt he has caused you and who is sincere that it was a genuine mistake (for want of a better word) and who you could trust that the future would, in time, be what you want it to be with him would not have behaved liked you husband has.

Accepting he is like most people on here say he is like is bloody hard and it took me far too long to even want to believe that let alone actually do that, but that acceptance is a big part of your ability to move forward emotionally. Wishing you every strength.

Tom, I'll post tomorrow about what me and mine will be doing over the next few days in order to be ready for Eid.

But for now I really do want to pick up on your first paragraph and if I make a mess of it Im hoping Blood will sort it all out.

You're right what you've said about your husband (and men like him) needing drama but, they also needs excitement. They need the physiological feedback they get from their antics and the best way I can describe it is to liken them to my son and his sensory issues. My son knows he isn't getting the right sensory feedback from his body so he does things like rocking in order to get the feedback he needs and its the same with these men. They don't feel things in the normal way and I'd go as far as to say that quite often they must feel quite dead. My sons psychiatrist referred to it as shallow emotions. So its my opinion that these men do things in their day to day life in order to get the feedback they need to feel alive. And when I think of some of my husbands antics that don't involve other women I can see he was about adrenaline and at different stages of his life he sourced it differently. Whether is was as a sportsman competing at the highest international level, or as a military man, or as a business man and a philanderer, my husband always had excitement in his life. But, and here's the reality, it always had to be his excitement. Excitement he sourced for himself and nothing to do with the excitement of ordinary everyday family life. It was too boring for him.

As for you not being a drama llama . Well there are times that would have suited your husband and times when he really needed you to be one. My husband loved it when I would have the screaming habdabs because he would get his physiological? thrill from it, but it would also help him convince him that he was right to be doing what he was. Then there came the time when I just closed down and treated him with calmness and that just totally did his head in. But again it helped him justify to himself what he was doing because I wasn't angry so I didn't care. Can you see that with these men you're damned if you do and damned if you don't, and the only way thats the right way is whats right for you?

I know for a fact that my husband will never have a conventional relationship with anyone. I know for a fact him and the OW had a very tumultuous relationship, it was always on and off, and only became whatever it is today when she became pregnant. He was in fact going out with her friend then cheated on the friend with his sons mother. How do I know? Well the cheated friend phoned me and told on him. And then of course the disgruntled friend/employee then spilled the beans to my children and the rest it history. Well that and the fact Ive very very recently learned he's been doing this for years and there is in fact a teenage child with yet another woman. Im not even bothered by it because all the news has done is enforce that what I suspect to be true about him actually is.

That brings me back to how these men need drama and excitement in their life regardless of how they get it. Its a physical/mental need. The reality is that my husband could legally have had 4 wives and 4 different lots of children if he had chosen to do things the proper way but something in him meant he had to do it the way he did because it was giving him the thrill he needs to get through life. He quite simply has to live as a liar and a cheat in order to feel alive.

Now Im not saying your husband is as bad as this but I would put money on him always needing drama/excitement/lies/cheating etc in his life.

I hope this makes some sense.

And on a different note

Im glad you had a lovely weekend with your family and that you've got more lovely visits with your family planned. Your parents will be loving having you and your wee girl around more and your wee girl is going to grow up knowing the absolute happiness of a relationship with her granny and granddad.

Yes. I think this drama recognition is very astute. It also puts me in mind of the word I use a lot 'narcissism', which I don't use in its diagnostic sense, but to refer to those whose sense of self is somewhat toddler-like, in its belief of its own centrality to the world, to other people's slightly unreal existence, and crucially, with the same glaring need for attention above all else, whether it is for positive or negative acts. These kind of people can be charming, attractive, clever and successful, in fact they usually are, because engaging in high risk behaviour whilst also knowing how to manipulate others is very profitable and sought after professionally.

High risk behaviour and 'drama' also makes people feel 'alive'. In the sense, as wee says, that adrenaline necessarily flows. Some people respond to this feeling of aliveness and find it difficult to live without it. Often those caught up in an affair will describe how 'alive' it made them feel. Awake for the first time. But that doesn't mean they are 'awake', but that their body is constantly in fight or flight, fear of being found out, fear of being rejected. I myself am prone to anxiety anyway, without that, so I find added adrenaline like this unpleasant!

Often this gets packaged up by our society in words like 'passion' and 'excitement' which are designed to make them seem positive. (This is partly because people who seek out high risk behavour tend to look for power and then get to frame the public discourse, but that's for another time!) It took until a woman writing Middlemarch for there to be any true celebration of the specific heroism of quiet femaleness, its final paragraph:

“And Dorothea..she had no dreams of being praised above other women.
Feeling that there was always something better which she might have done if she had only been better and known better, her full nature spent itself in deeds which left no great name on the earth, but the effect of her being on those around her was incalculable.
For the growing good of the world is partly dependent on unhistoric acts and on all those Dorotheas who life faithfully their hidden lives and rest in unvisited tombs."

Iwashappy I got really cross for a little while with some of the posters. I couldn't get my head around what they were saying and what I believed about him.

Him telling me that he had continued to stay in touch after I found out made me realise they were right. He is so utterly selfish and self absorbed that despite everything being at risk he could continue. He put contact with her over us - his wife and his beloved daughter. I would never ever do anything to jeopardise my long term relationship with her, and this helped the "clicking" that he doesn't function normally.

Weebirdie - I think your ex is a more extreme version of him. The sport, the risk taking at work amd in his personal life. It makes sense needing to take risks to feel alive. I was like that in my early twenties but grew out of it and get far more satisfaction from other things these days. I was never into trampling over other people though and if he's hell bent on self destruction I am well clear. It is so apparent that despite all of the children and lovers your ex has become a very lonely and screwed up man when he could have had such a rich and rewarding family life instead.

His mum has been in touch saying that they are both so sorry we are separating but they will always think on me as a daughter in law. I was very touched.

My big aim for the near future is to create as much stability and security for dd as possible. I want to stay in this area - we both have good friends, there are good schools, it is well connected and I like it here. It suits us. I might not be able to provide a traditional family set up but I can do lots of other things to give her a rewarding childhood.

Thank you blood - we xposted. That makes absolute sense. His behaviour has been like a toddler's recently - the fury, the wheedling, the distress when things haven't gone his way. The need for adrenaline, excitement, yes I can see that too.

I have just found myself a SHL. Nice and firm, very pragmatic. I am going to see her on Monday but she thinks what I want to achieve is imminently sensible and with a bit of clever negotiation I can probably get a bit more. I have some homework to do between now and then too. She also said I should move quickly to capitalise on his guilt.

ha, yes, good idea. Have a great week, we're here for you for all the 'excitement!' And sorry you had to go through a tough time like that, wee. It sounds like you're doing so brilliantly now.

Blood, thank you.

Im OK now even though getting to being OK has been horrendous and many a pandoras box has been opened along the way.

The reality is that I chose a carbon copy of my father to marry although he's had more children outside of his marriages to my mum and step mum than my husband had during ours. And the very interesting thing is that Ive seen him twice in 43 years. I wanted absolutely nothing to do with him from a very young age and it hasnt caused a moments conflict in my heart or my head - yet my husband, the carbon copy of my father, has caused loads of conflict. I tell you it was bloody exhausting being in therapy and having to look at things from so many different roles. Then there was the complication of my children not doing to their dad what I did with mine, not that I wanted them to, but it did confuse me at times and cause a bit of jealousy/hurt/upset. So I'd have to switch roles again and again and again before coming up with answers I could live in my heart and my head. Take the children for eg - here I am with my half siblings who found me a couple of years ago and there my children are with theirs who they have no contact with. I have to see it from the point of view of a daughter, a child, a sibling, an aunty, a half sibling, a wife, a mother, a step mother. Im surprised I know who I am half the time

Anyway, I really did just want to acknowledge that it looks as if Ive been drip feeding but Ive not. Ive tried very hard to make my replies to Tom relevant to her journey and it was only yesterday that I felt the time was right to speak of our very very recent discovery.

Weebirdie - thank you for telling your story. I'm amazed by what you've been through and how strong, wise and generous you have come out the other side.

These men who have been in your life and all the children. The utter heartbreak to so many they must have left in their wake as they crash through life. Despicable.

Wow, what a lot to go through, wee. Do you know Cheryl Strayed's writing at all? I wonder if you might like it. Not to derail, sorry, I recommend it to everyone, Tom included!

She was the one who wrote Wild wasn't she? I went to see it at the cinema and thought she was amazing.

Dd is in the wars a bit right now and we are watching Pinnochio. A very apt quote:

"A lie keeps growing and growing until it is as plain as the nose on your face"

Wow Wee what a story.... your ExH (not sure if he is EX) must be an incredible person (I don't mean incredible as any form of compliment). His shear mental juggling capacity, must have been mind boggling. I guess to some degree his mental resiliance is what made him the man he is (successful sporsman etc).

From the guys I know having simultaneous relationships (including one with a seperate family) the mental energy expanded to keep things running smoothly is astronomical and not something your "average Joe" could maintain.

Eid Mubarak. At least you should be back to a more normal day/night existance on Ramadan is over.

DrM - I haven't thought about the mental capacity side. Just why bother? Why go through the complications?

Can I just check? I seem to have become an emotional wreck. I don't normally cry much but at the moment all sorts of things are setting me off. My friend recommended Julia Donaldson's Paper Dolls which I bought today. Dd insisted I read it 4 times and by the end I was just a blubbering mess. I seem to be breaking down every couple of days at all sorts of sentimental things which wouldn't normally touch the sides.

That's totally normal. It's horrible but it's like being an emotional wound for a while I think. One way to look at it is it makes you very empathetic and aware of feelings and being moved, which can be quite a beautiful quality in someone, that openness and connection to the world, once it wears off a bit I mean!

Let the emotion flow -- better out than in. It means that you are moving through the emotional process. Tears are healing and better than rage, anxiety, anger.

I'm feeling a bit proud of myself. I've been putting off dealing with the full detail about our finances - it's a job I have been procrastinating about. He has always teased me about my admin being a disorganised mess. Despite being a disorganised mess I could lay my hands on everything I needed on first look - no hunting around, it was all in the correct file.

I have it all neatly listed out and sent to the lawyer in preparation for Monday. I've worked out what I think i should roughly get in child maintenance and I have plotted out several scenarios (equity split and spousal maintenance) to go through with the lawyer which could all work.

I just have to get a job now. None of my calculations work if I don't.

I've also been thinking a bit more about the house. There are a few more little changes which I want to make so it feels more "mine" (assuming we stay here for another couple of years) like some nice toy storage and more pictures up.

I definitely feel like its over. I'm not thinking at all that we might still stand a chance if he does the right thing. The longer we are apart the more I've realised he does so little with dd. Since that first week 3 months ago I've had 5 nights in total away from her. So much for daddy of the year.