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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Feminism - but is there some truth in the stereotype of gender roles?

296 replies

loveyoumore2 · 18/06/2015 16:34

I understand that feminism has its place, 100%. The way women are treated in some parts of the world, (and I will agree), in the western world to an extent, is wrong. And feminism is needed to that effect.

What I can't get my head around is that on some level, generally speaking, I believe women are more suited to the stereotypical 'woman's jobs,' and likewise, men are suited to their jobs. I embrace the fact that I am the one staying at home and look after my kids while my husband works (and this is coming from someone who has a very successful career and earned pretty much the same as my husband). I love cooking his dinner and cleaning the house. I don't feel oppresed. I am also attracted to my husbnad because he embraces his stereotypical male role of the breadwinner. I feel proud of my role as a women and I am proud that it differs from my husband's general role.

I know that the point of feminism is that everyone should be free to do what they want, male or female, and that men, if they want, should have the right to stay home with the kids.

But does anyone agree that on some basic level, instinctive almost, that for the majority of people (again, not all), that women do have women desires that are typical of a women, and the same for men?

ie. women are generally better at cleaning and tidying and naturally take the reigns, men prefer heavy lifting and DIY, women will be more motherly with kids than men, etc. NB. I know this is not always the case, but I am speaking generally. I believe stereotypes in this instance, are based on natural differences between men and women that we will never get away from. (Again stressing that there are exceptions).

OP posts:
cailindana · 19/06/2015 15:26

No, what we're arguing is that girly is a meaningless word because girls aren't all the same. Describing something as girly assumes that all girls like certain things.

laurierf · 19/06/2015 15:28

That doesn't answer the question.

Why are you associating those qualities with being a girl?

HFarnsworth20 · 19/06/2015 15:32

Because those to be qualities we as a society associate most closely with women/females/girls.

There is nothing wrong with being nurturing, tolerant, caring and perceptive clearly. What's that got to do with being a girl?

Why on earth did you think I was saying there was something wrong with any of that? Explain that post please.

ShipShapeAhoy · 19/06/2015 15:34

HFarnsworth20 yes that's what I meant it's just what she likes. It is our society that names things as girly or boy-y. The things themselves are not intrinsically gendered. And picking flowers as has been stated afaik is not seen as typically girly pursuit (isn't that what Alan Titchmash does?).

And what's wrong with 'girly'? Why should 'girly' be pejorative? 'Girly' could also mean nurturing, tolerant, caring, perceptive...

I feel you're missing a point or two. The problem is not with the things viewed as girly. The problem is with the categorisation of 'this is for girls and this is for boys'. To use my doll example, there is nothing wrong with playing with dolls. The problem (imo) is to say that girls prefer playing with dolls to boys, playing with dolls is a girly activity and that boys shouldn't play with dolls etc, etc which leads to 'and women are better suited to childcare. Men should be out bringing home the bacon..'.

ShipShapeAhoy · 19/06/2015 15:36

Sorry I'm getting my points across very badly and with a lot of rambling!

Twinklestein · 19/06/2015 15:39

Because those to be qualities we as a society associate most closely with women/females/girls.

Who's we?

Twinklestein · 19/06/2015 15:40

My father loves flowers and he's 77. Gardens and gardening are key interests of his. He would be very surprised to learn its 'girly'.

HFarnsworth20 · 19/06/2015 15:42

I feel you're missing a point or two. The problem is not with the things viewed as girly. The problem is with the categorisation of 'this is for girls and this is for boys'. To use my doll example, there is nothing wrong with playing with dolls. The problem (imo) is to say that girls prefer playing with dolls to boys, playing with dolls is a girly activity and that boys shouldn't play with dolls etc, etc which leads to 'and women are better suited to childcare. Men should be out bringing home the bacon..'.

That's entirely fair and an important point to make. My original point was that I would like my daughter to realise that the activities that are considered 'boys stuff' (and by extension, the careers that are considered 'mens stuff') are nothing of the sort, but that female role models in this are very important and she may lack for this.

Apologies if I didn't get this across very well. :/

laurierf · 19/06/2015 15:50

I'm sure there's a whole host of tolerant, caring, nurturing fathers, husbands, brothers and friends out there who would be astonished to discover they were 'girly'. Must remember to point out to the next man who makes a perceptive comment that what they are actually displaying is 'women's intuition' Hmm

HFarnsworth20 · 19/06/2015 15:52

My father loves flowers and he's 77. Gardens and gardening are key interests of his. He would be very surprised to learn its 'girly'.

Please point to where I or anyone else said this was girly.

Twinklestein · 19/06/2015 15:53

My original point was that I would like my daughter to realise that the activities that are considered 'boys stuff' (and by extension, the careers that are considered 'mens stuff') are nothing of the sort

From what you've said here, you rather believe it yourself.

Do what my dad did and teach your daughter all the things you would teach a son.

I listed practical things my dad taught me above, he also taught me to ride a bike, climb trees, use an air gun etc...

My sister and I used to spend time with him in his cellar, hammering things etc. We had no concept of whether any activity was 'girly' or 'boy-y' we just liked spending time with my dad.

HFarnsworth20 · 19/06/2015 15:55

*Do what my dad did and teach your daughter all the things you would teach a son.

I listed practical things my dad taught me above, he also taught me to ride a bike, climb trees, use an air gun etc... *

That is exactly what I have been saying!! But she is interested in nothing but flowers and pays no attention. Did you not read any of what I wrote?

Twinklestein · 19/06/2015 15:56

I try but - and here's the damn thing - she'd rather be out picking flowers. Neither I nor DW have ever tried to raise a 'girly' girl...

You rather implied it here.

Twinklestein · 19/06/2015 15:59

I did read what you wrote, you said you tried to interest in in football and films...

She's 5, she's too young for films and if you keep kicking a ball with her she'll keep going eventually...

Twinklestein · 19/06/2015 15:59

^her not in

HFarnsworth20 · 19/06/2015 16:00

You rather implied it here.

Nope, not what I ment at all. What I was trying to say was the she wasn't interested in the football/films/power tools axis of boyishness, not that what she was interested in was girly.

I see why you misunderstood, but misunderstood you did.

HFarnsworth20 · 19/06/2015 16:02

She's 5, she's too young for films

Really? My nephews are younger and can't get enough films (or football, for that matter).

laurierf · 19/06/2015 16:05

I see why you misunderstood, but misunderstood you did

Hmm
HFarnsworth20 · 19/06/2015 16:06

misunderstand

laurierf · 19/06/2015 16:09

Why are films 'boyish'? Confused

Twinklestein · 19/06/2015 16:11

There's an 'axis of boyishness' is there? I see. And apparently it includes films.

What films are they watching?

Truffaut, Robert Altman, Steven Soderbergh?

Taking an interest in film as you describe it implies an intellectual interest.

What you really means that your nephews like watching programmes, some of which are children's films - not the same thing.

Twinklestein · 19/06/2015 16:12

I see your Hmm laurie

And raise you Hmm Hmm

HFarnsworth20 · 19/06/2015 16:18

Spiderman, Star Wars, Flash Gordon - the first goes and generally considered fairly boyish.

laurief Twinklestein - I can see you're both in this to be as obnoxious, unpleasant and spiteful as humanly possible. Job done, so this will be my last post here. Bye.

JohnFarleysRuskin · 19/06/2015 16:19

Films are for boys? Fuck that.

laurierf · 19/06/2015 16:21

obnoxious, unpleasant and spiteful

Are they girly qualities too?

Flowers