My wife - she just cannot handle any 'criticism'- big nor small- HELP

[Husband99]

Things are pretty rough. I just cannot raise anything with my wife without her just getting angry and now I'm stuck to know what to do. It seems I either just shut up- no matter it is- or it will kick off. The former just doesn't seem like a sustainable way to live.

Mostly things that come up are just petty. For example, I hate being late. She is always late when we have to leave for things. That puts me in a grump; I know it does- and need to get perspective- but I also do not think these things are the end of the world. What makes these situations far worse is how she reacts. Then it becomes her angry reaction (that always happens) that we argue about the reaction, and not the tiny thing that initially caused it that becomes long forgotten.

Basically she flips and loses her temper every time I raise even the tiniest issue and things immediately switch and she says that she is the one hard fine by having to deal with this. It just puts me in a position where I cannot raise any issue with her or else she will just flip. She never quietly considers a point, reflects, try's to appreciate where someone else (i.e. me) is coming from. Her instinct is always to just get angry and go on the 'attack'- every time.

I do my best to remain calm in these instances, but she quickly raises her voice and slips into personal insults like calling me a 'prick ' - I'll admit, I resort to saying things back at times. I am not perfect- my patience is not infinite and I know this is damaging to our relationship. To be honest, I do this as I feel bullied. I am forever in these instances saying 'but I am the one whose is upset with something you have done- why are you shouting at me?'. I just don't understand. We do discuss this, but nothing changes.

She doesn't seem to see that she makes things more significant than really need to be by her angry reactions. Because I don't react this way in reverse, she also feels that I raise a lot if things with her and just fails to see that I am not more pedantic, I just am able to listen when things that she raises are said to me. They get quickly forgotten and aren't even remembered because I don't get angry- I take heed and listen. It's just when I am upset or frustrated with something, her reaction is so predictably extreme and aggressive that I think it becomes memorable. There is always an excuse. How I raise things; the things I raise etc - what is consistent is the angry reaction not seeing that I have tried everything. My one option that I feel I have is to just not say anything.

Let me explain how crazy this can be. On occasion, just recently, we were travelling in the car and playing a game to pass the time- 20 questions. My wife got frustrated, thought I was being patronising as she was having difficulty guessing who it was (I know- I cannot believe I am writing this!) and she said 'God you are a wanker'. I was a little stunned and calmly said, 'ok- I don't want to play anymore'. Because we were on a car journey, I couldn’t take time out to get away and collect my thoughts, so I just plugged in my ipod- all calmly. She did say why did I want to listen to my ipod, and I said I didn't want to just sit here in a her moody silence (yes- she got moody with me despite it being her calling me a personal comment) and I just wanted to zone out and relax. No shouting - all very calm. I was upset.

This ended up being a blazing argument - I just don't understand why a moment of reflection doesn't arrive where she calmly, genuinely says sorry and feels sorry for what she did. Instead she gets angry about the fact that I am upset/ annoyed with what she did.

Ultimately I keep saying to her that I am allowed to feel a certain way if things (big or small) happen and I want to be able to share that. I am want to feel like I am allowed to raise things if I feel a certain way, but these see not an attack. There's no need to react like this. I am on her team. But her constant anger is so tiring. I don't respect it. I feel like I have to walk constantly on egg shells and that I am unable to share anything without it being a blazing argument- big or small.

Its horrible.

You could ring the mankind helpline but I wouldn't worry about being the whingy friend tbh. If you can't whinge about this what can you whinge about?

So painful, op.

Saying thats it if you leave; repeating it? That sounds controlling.

I am currently trying to negotiate a relationship like this one (not a partner) and I am at a loss why they do it ie control and bully. It seems to be about power; not being able to resist exerting power over someone, often a captive 'audience' with a lot invested. I suppose its the opposite of trust. I even wonder if it has anything to do with low self-esteem - just a lust for power, having power over someone else...

I'm sorry that's not much help - I am rather long in the tooth with this stuff and every explanation I have agonised over, desperately searching for the smallest evidence of humanity, doesn't fit; but this one does: they do it bcs they like it. What on earth is wrong with ppl that they prefer this to genuine intimacy is a mystery.

You have set a boundary and you need to see if she respects that boundary. (I don't think she will but I may be wrong - I hope so)

Re the comment that ppl can only treat us badly if we let them - so simplistic. This stuff creeps up, and forging intimacy is not an easy road; it's so easy to accept stuff that is off without realising it until it's too late.

surely if two people love eachother, there's never a point where you give up

I call bull on that.

My previous partner raped me despite me loving him. Yours is violent to you.

Are we victims of them because we don't love them enough? Do we need to love them more for them not to be a rapist and an abuser?

OP, I and others have asked what she is like within her relAtionships with other people in her life? Friends. Colleagues? Family? It really matters. Is this all about you and her or her and the way she deals with all conflicts I life?

Sorry of you have answered this and I've missed your reply.

I think it a shame that men who come on MN are treated suspiciously (though I understand why, because we are wired to see the woman's side of the story because of some of the assholes we've had to deal with). But people forget that we have to believe the OP when the OP is a man.

I've had friends who merrily criticise other people but can't take the slightest criticism themselves but I have fortunately never had to deal with someone trying to give the impression that I was hitting them when I wasn't, that is in totally different league and frankly, that alone, seems to be good reason to give up on this marriage.

I think you should do a bit of reading about abusive relationships too, OP, because not all but most victims of abusive relationships fall into the same situation again and again if they don't work on it.

Matilda: There are not issues with others. We have talked about when she has had 'feedback' from people at work - I can tell the defensive instincts are there but she is able to manage them and I have supported her to do that (not replying immediately to avoid an emotional response etc)- ultimately she doesn't do this with anyone else, apart from being a little short with her mum and brother on occasion.

She has had moments when she has realised she does it; her brother and his wife bought there 3 month baby round and he was asleep- she then started to move him- I asked what she was doing (not being an expert, but I always thought just leave them be if they are asleep)- she shot back angrily and the cycle continues.

Two days later she was with her brother and his wife and he said the same thing to his wife in the same scenario; she said she felt really bad as she could see how his wife behaved in those circumstances- i.e. calmly. Her mum has also told her that she takes criticism (for the want of a better word) badly; but in truth I am the only one who gets it like this all the time.

I tell her that I feel I have to walk on egg shells all of the time. When she is angry she just mockingly dismisses it. What is challenging is that I know she also genuinely feels hard done by- but when posters have asked what do I 'raise with her' as examples (like I consistently raise things with herday to day- that just is not the case. despite the story I think she tells herself) It is difficult, as (believe it or not), I have to deal with a lot of difficult issues at work and I am not one to pussy foot in my professional life. It just feels like we are in a really damaging cycle and there is no respect on her side.

Re: your "surely if two people live each other..." comment.

Two people can love each other, but if it is more important to one or both of them to treat their partner badly in order to protect their own neuroses, than to treat their partner with kindness and respect, then all the live in the world can't fix that relationship.

For her own reasons, she is more interested in treating you badly than treating you well. And she is more attached to shutting you down than to listening to your feelings.

How much longer can you live like that?

I have been lurking but just wanted to add my perspective. Disclaimer - I am not in ANY way defending your partner OP, or suggesting that my situation is her situation.

Your posts have hit home with me, I can't cope with perceived criticism at all. If other people criticise me I tend to swallow it at the time but then go home and get very upset privately. But if my DH does it, I will often blow up at him, and he has said he feels he has to walk on egg shells around me if he has a problem. I have never (and would never) physically attacked him, but over the years I have probably been verbally abusive on occasion. I know when I am doing it and I hate myself for it for days afterwards. I'm not saying your partner is the same as me, I have no idea. I just wanted to say that I adore my husband, I respect him and I only want him to be happy and feel loved. I don't want to be this person, my self esteem is non-existent and I feel like a total failure, so as soon as my DH sees the slightest flaw in me I go into panic mode and get defensive. The reason I 'let go' on him and nobody else is because I feel safe and secure with him, that old cliche of taking it out on the ones we are closest to, I guess.

I have been with my husband since we were 18 (we are now 37) and he appears to be/says he is very happy in our marriage. I have been doing CBT for my depression and self esteem issues, I am working hard on being a better person. You opening up has given me an extra dimension to it and I am going to work especially hard on my interactions with my husband. I want to wish you the best of luck and happiness, whether that can be found with your partner or separately from her. Sorry for my ramble, just offering a different perspective and to say I am grateful for your comments which have given me a much needed kick up the bum.

I definitely recognise the "genuinely feels hard done by" personality. And that's what makes it impossible to get through to them: there's no space left for them to consider someone else's feelings; they're directing all their pity at their own pain. And making you pay for it.

Good for you gor working on yoir issues and getting help caramella.

Stay strong op.

Also wanted to say that 95% of the time we are perfectly happy. Not sure how you feel the relationship is aside from this issue. I would say this is our only real problem, which probably is the reason it hasn't destroyed us.

I would really like to know what the things are that you have raised.

It's not the washing or the cooking?

If you are accusing her of overreacting to your own criticism then what you need to do is stop criticising.

If you hate being late and get grumpy then work on that yourself. You can't make her not be late. You turn the matter of timeliness into a power struggle, and she is not going to try to be on time if it means you are therefore winning the struggle.

She never quietly considers a point, reflects, try's to appreciate where someone else (i.e. me) is coming from.
You want her to change?
You want her to take your criticism on board and be a different sort of person, with different habits or attitudes?

You were not called a wanker 'for no reason'. She called you a wanker because you were in her view patronising her. Then instead of addressing her emotion (frustration) you blanked her by plugging in your music. You want her to address why she called you a wanker and feel remorseful, but you refuse to deal with her perception that you were patronising? You are absolutely sure that you were not patronising? No tone of voice that could possibly be interpreted as patronising?

Do you want her to judge you by your intentions here, and not by what actually comes out of your mouth, or the tone in which it is all said no matter how it may hurt her or frustrate her? You certainly want her to judge the ipod thing by your intentions and not by how it affected her.

You have contributed to this every bit as much as she has. This is a power struggle, not a healthy relationship. It is far better to be kind than to be right.

You should get counselling for your controlling tendencies so you won't end up so unhappy next time.

Caramella, one of my close friends seems very similar to you. Can I ask, how should people who get defensive because of low self-esteem be treated? A lot of the time I just ignore my friend's comments (but I'm not sure if this makes her think it's ok to have a go at me) or if there has been a lot of negativity I point this out (but am aware that I am being critical about someone with low self-esteem and therefore potentially making the situation worse).
Sorry, I don't mean to hijack the thread and understand that the OPs situation is very different to this

Caramella - I am sure you carry deep pain from childhood, and it's great that you have the insight to get help, and are willing to consider that you might be harming your husband. I know that's hard to look at, when you're already carrying so much pain and are looking for comfort for yourself, not more reasons to feel that you are wrong.

My parents have been married for 45 years. My dad would certainly say he is happy in his marriage. My mother has zero self esteem, and as a protection mechanism she has decided that the world Is out to get her, and she must fight it. She goes on the attack, relentlessly, for every perceived slight. My "happily married" father is a wreck of anxiety, and keeps coming down with stress-related illnesses. I'm visiting him now in hospital, where my mother is still going on at him about everything he does wrong, and how she is so hard done by. He is going to die of it one day.

They do love each other, but it is so dysfunctional.

Thanks for sharing that Carmalla. What bothers me is that I don't feel my wife has the same post-event guilt that you describe.

She will get angry and say something personal: I either a) get angry back (obviously not good); remain calm b) perceived as patronising c) walk away - that also makes her angry. I've tried all these approaches; I vary them all the time; there just seems to be no awareness of this, and worse, no guilt on her side apart from the fleeting moments (as I said above re: her brother's baby)- but there's no follow up in terms of changing her behaviors or seeking support.

Math have you ftwt?

mathanxiety I am really sorry - I confronting that- I WAS called a wanker for no reason. We were playing 20 questions for goodness sake! As I have said above, I would be mortified if I lost my patience during a game to kill time on a car journey and called my wife a bitch. Mortified.

Nolim- what does ftwt mean?

I meant rtwt = read the whole thread

Samesame I am using CBT. I wanted to get counselling but there's no nhs provision for it here and I can't afford to pay, so it's self help all the way. But it is really helping. I'm so deeply unhappy with myself and it manifests as anger, the deep unhappiness is still here but the CBT helps me to work through my thoughts rationally and therefore I'm outwardly more balanced.

Husband99 you're right to not accept her behaviour, especially if there's no guilt and things like the car game situation/pretending you're hitting her are very extreme. I'm so sorry you're going through this, I hope you get some space for clarity over the weekend. Keep us posted.

Thanks Caramella. When you are aware you are being defensive and angry do you want the target of your anger to challenge you, or do you want them to gloss over the situation, or some other reaction?

I think you know you can't change her - she can only do that herself. It might be time for you to walk away for a while, whilst she addresses her own personal anxieties.

The 20 questions thing reminded me of when me and my dp first started to play games, like scrabble or 20 Q. He is very logical and will not offer up any clues, whereas I see the game as being a fun interaction and when someone is struggling I might pop in a little clue (in pavorotti's case I might break into an operatic song). His approach used to do my head in because I didn't see it as being very fair and he couldn't understand why I thought t his, even though 9 times out of 10 it meant he always won and that peed me off. Same with scrabble. He used to use an online dictionary to check words and would always win, whilst I had no access to it. So that pee'd me off too. Like your gf, I have a short temper because of underlying anxiety issues making me feel threatened by people who 'don't play fair' in my eyes. How did we resolve it? I spoke to him about it, explained why it pissed me off and he listened. He still can't play 20 Q without sticking to the rules, or any other game, even with my dd when playing cards (which can cause tears). But I can rib him for it a bit in a jovial manner and he has stopped using the online dictionary. A lot of this has come from my own personal counselling for anxiety and his recognition that I don't like his total sticking to the rules thing when having fun. We both compromised a little and it's much more relaxed. We can take the mickey a bit out of eachother's foibles to diffuse the situation.

So, what I'm saying is, you both have different approaches to little things and this triggers an 'unfair' response in her. Like the games, the putting on headphones to block her out. Her response is probably caused by underlying self esteem issues. She then quickly excalates into anger because her anxiety has her near boiling point at all times.

That said, these are reasons and not excuses. She should never ever ever call you names or get physical with you - which she has done. Having lived in a relationship that was like this, I would never put up with it again. You are well within your rights to say 'no, this must stop' and halt the relationship until she gets proper help for her anxieties. After that, maybe give it another go if you truly love her. Or take a step back and think 'are we really compatible?' To answer that, think about what things you have in common compared to what she gets annoyed about with you/you with her. There really shouldn't be too much on the annoyance list, as this will just cause future rows.

Good luck. Hope this helps.

Samesame. None of the above :) I just want to magic myself away from the situation so I can stop verbally hitting out. I ask my DH to give me a few minutes but he often doesn't, and that's when I tend to get nastier. I don't name call. I just get defensive and stressed. I certainly don't think I'm on the same level as op's partner or GoatsDoRoams mother.

Thanks Popalot.

Believe me, I am not the 'stickler to the rules' that your partner is; but I am pretty rational (I think).

Tbh, I think that the game is a red herring. For me, its the stuff that sits beneath the reaction is crucial here. She has said she feels inferior to me intellectually. This is not true- she has different interests (i.e. not news, current affairs, politics- things I have interest in)- but that is no measure of intelligence. It is my role as her husband to help her combat these, but it is just killing me at the moment, and tbh for the last few months. (but not all teh time- when we are good, we are great- people who know us- aside from very close friends- would be surprised, I think, that things are like this).

But there are big confidence issues that I am not oblivious to. She is intimidated by other women she sees as attractive. She has an issue with one of my ex girlfriends (who I have no contact with, and no intentions of changing this) because she perceives her as pretty. She had a go at me for messages on my phone to women (before we had even met)- messages that I didn't even know were there- she rationalized it as it was inconsiderate to have them on my phone- I honestly didn't know they were there.

We are different in so many ways. When her nephew was born I knew that she washed her hair that morning as she would have her photo taken with the baby. I said nothing- but that is just not me.

These are just a few examples of things that show deep insecurity- I am not oblivious to this, and you just have to trust me that I do not play up to them.