My wife - she just cannot handle any 'criticism'- big nor small- HELP

[Husband99]

Things are pretty rough. I just cannot raise anything with my wife without her just getting angry and now I'm stuck to know what to do. It seems I either just shut up- no matter it is- or it will kick off. The former just doesn't seem like a sustainable way to live.

Mostly things that come up are just petty. For example, I hate being late. She is always late when we have to leave for things. That puts me in a grump; I know it does- and need to get perspective- but I also do not think these things are the end of the world. What makes these situations far worse is how she reacts. Then it becomes her angry reaction (that always happens) that we argue about the reaction, and not the tiny thing that initially caused it that becomes long forgotten.

Basically she flips and loses her temper every time I raise even the tiniest issue and things immediately switch and she says that she is the one hard fine by having to deal with this. It just puts me in a position where I cannot raise any issue with her or else she will just flip. She never quietly considers a point, reflects, try's to appreciate where someone else (i.e. me) is coming from. Her instinct is always to just get angry and go on the 'attack'- every time.

I do my best to remain calm in these instances, but she quickly raises her voice and slips into personal insults like calling me a 'prick ' - I'll admit, I resort to saying things back at times. I am not perfect- my patience is not infinite and I know this is damaging to our relationship. To be honest, I do this as I feel bullied. I am forever in these instances saying 'but I am the one whose is upset with something you have done- why are you shouting at me?'. I just don't understand. We do discuss this, but nothing changes.

She doesn't seem to see that she makes things more significant than really need to be by her angry reactions. Because I don't react this way in reverse, she also feels that I raise a lot if things with her and just fails to see that I am not more pedantic, I just am able to listen when things that she raises are said to me. They get quickly forgotten and aren't even remembered because I don't get angry- I take heed and listen. It's just when I am upset or frustrated with something, her reaction is so predictably extreme and aggressive that I think it becomes memorable. There is always an excuse. How I raise things; the things I raise etc - what is consistent is the angry reaction not seeing that I have tried everything. My one option that I feel I have is to just not say anything.

Let me explain how crazy this can be. On occasion, just recently, we were travelling in the car and playing a game to pass the time- 20 questions. My wife got frustrated, thought I was being patronising as she was having difficulty guessing who it was (I know- I cannot believe I am writing this!) and she said 'God you are a wanker'. I was a little stunned and calmly said, 'ok- I don't want to play anymore'. Because we were on a car journey, I couldn’t take time out to get away and collect my thoughts, so I just plugged in my ipod- all calmly. She did say why did I want to listen to my ipod, and I said I didn't want to just sit here in a her moody silence (yes- she got moody with me despite it being her calling me a personal comment) and I just wanted to zone out and relax. No shouting - all very calm. I was upset.

This ended up being a blazing argument - I just don't understand why a moment of reflection doesn't arrive where she calmly, genuinely says sorry and feels sorry for what she did. Instead she gets angry about the fact that I am upset/ annoyed with what she did.

Ultimately I keep saying to her that I am allowed to feel a certain way if things (big or small) happen and I want to be able to share that. I am want to feel like I am allowed to raise things if I feel a certain way, but these see not an attack. There's no need to react like this. I am on her team. But her constant anger is so tiring. I don't respect it. I feel like I have to walk constantly on egg shells and that I am unable to share anything without it being a blazing argument- big or small.

Its horrible.

Op - I think you need to think about what you want in the longer term rather than feeling so intensely your current attachment to your wife. Do you want a relationship that makes you feel this way? Do you want children? Do you want to bring children into a relationship with someone you know is capable of abuse?

offred - actually I have said, several times that i think the relationship should end. I have not condoned his wife's behaviour or suggested it is justified.

I have agreed he is a victim of physical abuse.

I am not complicit in abuse, that it utter bollocks, and a really offensive allegation. The OP has made it clear he wants to work on this relationship, so an insight into what is going on for his wife is going to crucial (and ditto the reverse for his wife)

I suspect things have escalated quickly for the OP because the 'drip drip' has become overwhelming

Nope not justifying or complicit posting comments like that.

All really good questions. I think you are right. If I'm honest, I'm scared to think about anything different (at least right now). But I know I cannot take being shouted at any more.

The more I think about it, the more I think this notion of gas lighting just sounds ridiculous for my situation. If I follow the logic, it suggests I feel terrible- I can't remember feel as bad as this- but as a result of circumstances I have purposefully created.

I just don't want to be swore at and shouted at any more. It is effecting me and I need it to stop, and WE will have to work together to stop it. It will have to involve two willing parties. But I am not oblivious to the warning signs of where this could be going and I'll have to face up to that. I'll listen carefully, but if my ask about shouting and swearing is too much, we have no where to go. Someone posted how my wife manages her anger in other situations and with other people - this is true, and something that makes me feel nervous and hopeful.

Offred- throughout this you have been willing to confront those who have posted - please pardon my French- but utter bollocks on here. Good on you.

Sleepless - statistics show that some of those 1 in 5 men who are killed are actually killed in self defense by their abused partner. Sorry haven't got a link I just woke up.

One of the main things about being in an abusive relationship is the attachment to the abuser. Women posting here usually get some help to see that the attachment isn't healthy not accusatory suggestions that they should change themselves.

In any case the change may be futile. I changed, made myself small and unchallenging and desperately tried to be pleasing and my BF still found things to get angry over - because he has the problem.

I don't think it should give you too much hope unfortunately op (I don't like referring to you as 'husband' in this context). It shows you that she is capable of managing her anger but is choosing to not do that with you and I don't think that is a dynamic that can be reversed. It shows IMO that the problem is not so much her anger as her belief that she is entitled to behave this way with you.

Well, Husband, it seems like you don't need any further advice at the moment, but I genuinely wish you all the best for your talk later. I sincerely hope that the disgusting comments you've received from some posters won't prevent you from coming back to update if you'd like to have somewhere to write down your feelings and/or receive people's input. I'll be thinking about you.

You have edited my post rather heavily Offred - I go on to say that his wife's actions have been unacceptable for a long time. I'd C&P but I can't get the blimmin touchpad to behave.

I repeat - the OP wants to work on this - I am suggesting possible reasons, based on my own experience, that the couple may have got to the point they are at.

Thanks Gelwax - a good place to stop.

Well yes, I picked out the part that was most clear illustrative of my point. Either way, on what post made by a woman would that be good advice? 'He's punched me in the face' 'you need to change your behaviour if you want to stay' that would never happen on this board.

And the whole point is that it is inappropriate to suspect the op has 'driven his wife to it' based on suspicions which are based on your experience.

Offred is right. Considering her previous behaviour with alleged hand in face incident, children could give OP's wife far more control over OP. The threat that he'll never see them again if he leaves, that she'll accuse him of violence and he'll be denied contact. It happens - during a custody battle my DH's ex said DH had attacked her in the past and she feared for her life. DH was furious and she eventually retracted that statement. She was the one who used to get drunk and aggressive. (I've been with DH for 15 years and he's never ever showed any signs of violence.)

Abusive people can also take their anger out on children, or treat partners like dirt in front of them. Or use them to get the partner to comply, eg the subtle hint that things are about to go nuclear in front of the kids unless they do what abusive partner wants them to.

Offred - the OP has said he wants the thread to stop.

I am frankly appalled at your editorial approach to my posts. And your summery is not what I have been saying at all. Happy to continue this via PM/ on a separate thread if you would like.

I wonder if Math and Madwoman have heard of Erin Pizzey. If not, Google her. She set up the UK's first women's refuge but noticed that some of the women were just as violent as the men they were meant to be escaping from.

When she reported this she was subjected to death threats.

Maybe everyone who mentions possible abuse on Mumsnet should be subjected to the same level of interrogation as Husband ? Will look out for you doing that on future threads involving female victims.

Good luck husband, over and out!

Nobody should take a blind bit of notice of what Erin Pizzey says - she's been adopted by the men's rights activists for a reason.

Husband99, is your wife capable of changing? Will she be prepared to get help for anger management? If not, I don't think that you can stay in the marriage no matter how seriously you take your marriage vows.

I'm guessing that tonight she will promise you the earth (getting help, counselling, a baby, a wonderful marriage - whatever she thinks you want to hear). You need to remain slightly detached from everything she says, as its actions that count not words and sadly, most abusers tend to follow a script. My advice is to stay living apart from her while she gets help so that you have the space to decide whether the marriage is over or not.

Whatever else you decide to do, please do not bring children into the mix.

I admire how you have responded to the arrogant and cruel projection that you have been subjected to, by some people here. You have stood your ground......make sure you do the same later with your wife. I wish you well.

I don't quite understand why the accusation of gaslighting has been levelled at H99. When somebody's partner goes nuclear at them for imagined slights, deliberately misunderstood remarks and situations manufactured by the partner, the partner is doing the gaslighting. It's a well-tried means to force someone to question their own reality, second-guess themselves for fear of offence, and to wonder what they're doing wrong.

H99, I recommend the strategy advised above: write down succinct points to keep you on track, don't be derailed and do stay rational. If (when) your wife 'misunderstands' your words, don't be sidetracked into defending your meaning - repeat what you said. When she tells you she's upset/angry/confused/etc, say it's a pity she feels that way and continue. When she tells you what's wrong with you (it's all your fault), maintain that you're currently discussing her response. You can have another conversation about your faults. If she rages, wait it out. Don't try to stop it, to heal her or to argue.

Good luck! There's a possibility she'll be all sad & sorry if she realises you're serious. This is not the end; you still need to come out of the meeting with agreed action points. Do your memories of rows tend to be blurred? If so, record your conversation.

Good Luck right now op

Good luck, I'l thinking of you. What Gilrack said is the best advice I've seen for this circumstance. Hope you get what you want out of the talk

OP, you love her and you want to save the marriage. Fair enough. But does she? Sure, she nay prefer to stay married. But is she willing to look at the huge insecurity she carries square in the face, recognise her issues, and do the incredibly hard work of changing?

Each of these things is an incredibly tall order, but without them I don't think your relationship is salvageable (because she doesn't have the tools to have a healthy relationship with anybody).

Op, I have been following your thread and I don't know what to think. I've seen maths posts before and generally thought she was reasonable, but I'm not sure at all this time.
Of course we all bring our own experiences to bear on what we read. Mine lead me to advise you to give up and get out, but of course that may be entirely wrong for you. All I can say is that in my experience it doesn't get better. Observe the red flags. I wish I'd had MN years ago. I would have known that it's very difficult to change someone who thinks everything is your fault. And often not worth it.
My experience inclines me to believe what you say. I feel for you.

Husband99, it can't have been an easy decision to come on here and discuss this. All too often the assumption is that the term "emotional abuse" is about a man destroying the confidence, self-esteem and life of a woman. But that's not always the case. Women are just as capable of doing this to the men in their lives. It's inexcusable no matter who the perpetrator is.

You are in an emotionally abusive relationship so it would seem that you have three options: accept the status quo, make the relationship emotionally enriching and stay, or end the relationship.

You seem to have (wisely) decided that accepting things as they stand is a non-runner. For what it's worth, I think you're dead right. Nobody should have to put up with that sort of misery. It's an existence not a life.

Ending the abuse is something that your wife needs to be responsible for. Yes, you can love and support her while she learns new coping strategies and mechanisms to deal with what are obviously deep-rooted insecurities and hurts BUT ultimately SHE is responsible for her abusive actions and until she takes ownership of that and starts to make changes then there can be no happy-ever-after.

If that doesn't happen then really that only leaves the third option of ending the relationship. The really tough part about that is that you really seem to love your wife very very much. For that reason I genuinely hope that she comes to realise that despite her abuse and vitriol she seems to have a husband by her side who adore her. I hope she really hears what you're saying and that things change for the better.

9 lease try to ignore. The sceptics on here, particularly the ones who seemed so filled. With but chines and cynicism