My wife - she just cannot handle any 'criticism'- big nor small- HELP

[Husband99]

Things are pretty rough. I just cannot raise anything with my wife without her just getting angry and now I'm stuck to know what to do. It seems I either just shut up- no matter it is- or it will kick off. The former just doesn't seem like a sustainable way to live.

Mostly things that come up are just petty. For example, I hate being late. She is always late when we have to leave for things. That puts me in a grump; I know it does- and need to get perspective- but I also do not think these things are the end of the world. What makes these situations far worse is how she reacts. Then it becomes her angry reaction (that always happens) that we argue about the reaction, and not the tiny thing that initially caused it that becomes long forgotten.

Basically she flips and loses her temper every time I raise even the tiniest issue and things immediately switch and she says that she is the one hard fine by having to deal with this. It just puts me in a position where I cannot raise any issue with her or else she will just flip. She never quietly considers a point, reflects, try's to appreciate where someone else (i.e. me) is coming from. Her instinct is always to just get angry and go on the 'attack'- every time.

I do my best to remain calm in these instances, but she quickly raises her voice and slips into personal insults like calling me a 'prick ' - I'll admit, I resort to saying things back at times. I am not perfect- my patience is not infinite and I know this is damaging to our relationship. To be honest, I do this as I feel bullied. I am forever in these instances saying 'but I am the one whose is upset with something you have done- why are you shouting at me?'. I just don't understand. We do discuss this, but nothing changes.

She doesn't seem to see that she makes things more significant than really need to be by her angry reactions. Because I don't react this way in reverse, she also feels that I raise a lot if things with her and just fails to see that I am not more pedantic, I just am able to listen when things that she raises are said to me. They get quickly forgotten and aren't even remembered because I don't get angry- I take heed and listen. It's just when I am upset or frustrated with something, her reaction is so predictably extreme and aggressive that I think it becomes memorable. There is always an excuse. How I raise things; the things I raise etc - what is consistent is the angry reaction not seeing that I have tried everything. My one option that I feel I have is to just not say anything.

Let me explain how crazy this can be. On occasion, just recently, we were travelling in the car and playing a game to pass the time- 20 questions. My wife got frustrated, thought I was being patronising as she was having difficulty guessing who it was (I know- I cannot believe I am writing this!) and she said 'God you are a wanker'. I was a little stunned and calmly said, 'ok- I don't want to play anymore'. Because we were on a car journey, I couldn’t take time out to get away and collect my thoughts, so I just plugged in my ipod- all calmly. She did say why did I want to listen to my ipod, and I said I didn't want to just sit here in a her moody silence (yes- she got moody with me despite it being her calling me a personal comment) and I just wanted to zone out and relax. No shouting - all very calm. I was upset.

This ended up being a blazing argument - I just don't understand why a moment of reflection doesn't arrive where she calmly, genuinely says sorry and feels sorry for what she did. Instead she gets angry about the fact that I am upset/ annoyed with what she did.

Ultimately I keep saying to her that I am allowed to feel a certain way if things (big or small) happen and I want to be able to share that. I am want to feel like I am allowed to raise things if I feel a certain way, but these see not an attack. There's no need to react like this. I am on her team. But her constant anger is so tiring. I don't respect it. I feel like I have to walk constantly on egg shells and that I am unable to share anything without it being a blazing argument- big or small.

Its horrible.

Is English your second language? (Your use of "this" makes me wonder, not your inability to google "gas lighting".)

He didn't dripfeed the punch. It was mentioned ages ago. Why are you intent on finding fault?

ravenmum for what it is worth, no - I guess I am just not the best proof reader in the world and didn't think to google it.

OP your relationship sounds desperately unhappy.

I wouldn't bother trying to 'talk' - it's clear nothing is going to change. In your shoes I would mentally draw a line under things, decide I'm leaving, explain briefly and calmly why, make it clear I'm not going to change my mind and get on with the arrangements. Don't get involved in any drama or prolong it. It'll just make everyone feel shit for longer. In a less troubled relationship I would be kinder but I think endless 'talking' in these situations doesn't help anyone. You could also explore why you've stuck it out for so long so that you don't drift into a similar scenario with someone new.

Just my opinion but it's not real love if you have fundamentally different ideas on how to approach life and each other - it's just surviving together.

hollybananas we have so much in common. We do care deeply about each other. Its here happiness (and my own that I have in mind).

It would be so hard. We work together- in the same company, but not in too close proximity. Nevertheless, it would be incredibly 'public'. That is not more important than the above, but something I am thinking about.

I would miss her. We have so many good times. But when it is shit, it is really shit. The car example was the last day of a really lovely holiday.

her happiness - better correct that

Drip feeding is when you start off on a Wednesday afternoon saying that your wife called you a wanker, mention that evening that she has hit you, then wait until Friday after 12 pages of discussion to say that it was a punch in the face. Why are we even discussing her washing her hair or getting angry about games when she has punched you in the face, Husband?

Husband, if you are a guy and you post an OP like yours, expect questioning, picking holes in your story, projection, assumption, extrapolation, and downright insult (mathanxiety and others seem to have you all figured out by twisting and assuming). Also you 'll get "is she depressed?", "what have you done to make her like this?" etc.
If you're a woman and you post it, you get "I believe you".
No wonder there are so many reverse threads.
Surprise, both men and women can be controlling, abusive gaslighters.

No comment on how you were told you couldn't go out with a friend when she was in the USA?
I suppose this comes down to you controlling her somehow

Not sure why an abusive, controlling guy would post on mumsnet for advice.

The advice given to countless women who say they love their abusive husband is that it isn't really. You don't shout, swear and hit people who you love. OK when it's good it's good but when it's bad it's awful.
Why should you put up with that?

I cannot believe some of the responses on here. The OP comes here for advice and he is meet with victim blaming and disbelief. And all because he is a man.
OP you have my deepest sympathy with your situation and I hope you have managed to get some good advice amongst the more vicious posts.
Please be assured that there are some sensible people on these boards that won't automatically take the opposing side or tell you that you deserve your abuse because you obviously wind your wife up.
I'm sickened at some of the response on here especially about the verbal and physical abuse.
It makes me think some people are not of the opinion that you should not be violent and abusive towards your partner at all but more of the opinion that you should not be violent and aggressive with your partner if you're a man. If you are a a women being violent and abusive towards your partner it's not your fault and is probably something your partner did to drive you too it.
Sickening

Because it happened once- to many on here that is too many to stay in a relationship. To repeat it consistently may give the impression she consistently does it- she hadn't- or that I fell it is root cause or even the aspect that is bringing me down in general. - it isn't - it happened once. I mentioned here also because I felt she manufactured a scenario (as mentioned above) to give her mother the impression I would hit her. I said that was horrible, and even more so because only one of us had and ever would do that .

I want advice Ravens- I'm not on trial here. Right now I don't want to join my colleagues for lunch at work because I feel shit. Call that victimisation, gas lighting or whatever you want.

Sometimes a woman can hurt a man got no good reason. I have realised that is happening here. I love her, but I also need to respect myself. Therefore I need this to stop.

Someone mentioned above that there could be a discussion here by my wife painting a totally different picture - that'd true- but I can only share things as I see them and how I feel, while being open to my role in all of this.

I would reiterate I feel shit; I want help; I feel alone; so please try and help or leave me be.

because, raven, Husband99 is like many abused people, especially men. there are things he has kept hidden and convinced himself are just unimportant, one-time, extreme rarities and if the victim just behaves better, things will get better.

He isn't the first to post about emotional abuse that turns out to have a physical component. his being a man makes the concept unbelievable to some. Even though the stately homes thread is full of stories of women who treat their families, including their husband's, horribly.

Men speak up less often than women because men aren't supposed to be victims, and anyway, how quickly have so many here tried to read between the lines and imply that really, this is all his fault, her angry reactions must be reasonable because he must, in reality, be treating her in ways that make her anger justifiable. because he is a man.

no matter which spouse is walking on eggshells, or if they have never been hit, or hit once, or hit daily, they are living with an abuser and likely to continue putting up with more and worse abuse as the idea becomes normal to them. there are points at which they question it and might get out if they reach a consensus of support (as women often do here) or stay if they reach of consensus of you made your bed now stand by your man (as many do in real life). Husband99 has reached one of those turning points. How his wife reacts is her own responsibility. How long he tolerates how much abuse is up to him.

You say it's her happiness you have in mind… to be honest you've said very little about her happiness in this thread. The only thing you've really said about her happiness really is this:

I know I am doing things to make her unhappy too. I hate that. But it is almost like I cannot respect myself if I have to forever bite my tongue for the rest of my life... She has hit me once, and shut doors on me a few times

To be honest, those few words alone are the reason you should separate. You don't respect yourself when you're with her, you don't respect the way she behaves, and she's been physically violent! You shouldn't be with someone in those circumstances. You said you are drawing a line at being sworn or shouted at but she has already stepped way over that line on numerous occasions and she is not going to stop shouting and swearing at you when she's angry and upset. She is not going to stop that with you.

When you say you have so much in common (having already stated how different you are in so many ways) and it's her happiness (as well as your own) that you have in mind, it doesn't really fit with a lot of what else you've said here and you obviously feel confused… but you should end this.

I'm not putting you on trial, Husband - I'm saying that if she punched you in the face, you shouldn't be discussing how she calls you names or even how many times she's hit you, you should be running like the wind. If you don't see that, it's because you're completely mixed up. However much you love someone, when they treat your head as a punchbag, you go. Don't hang around to see if she's going to get nicer or get nastier: that's nasty enough.

Your version of English sounds a lot like my German husband's, which made me wonder if you were mixing up punching and slapping or something, but it seems you meant it just as you said. My helpful suggestion would be to get out while you can; if you don't find that helpful, try some counselling, as you are not thinking straight.

Ravenmum is slapping your partner alright but punching is not?
I'm of the mind that there should be no physical abuse of any kind in a relationship but maybe I'm wrong and if you're only getting a slap then that's OK.

My guess is she doesn't think much of herself but is directing that anger at you OP. You deserve it in her mind for trying to get one up on her and showing her where she is going wrong - winning the in-car game or any criticism for instance. "How dare you show off you are better". Trouble is, deep down, what's hitting her is that she really does think you are better, because in her mind she already does not match up to you - hence insecurity about other females who are all better than her being able to take you away. Then she punched you! That will backfire as that proves to herself that she is no good, and so the cycle continues.
How to sort it? She needs counselling and to work on self- validation. How do you get her to accept help? Make it a joint effort, I think it's yourselves you need to work on so individual counselling would work better. How do you impress the need without being seen as patronising and yet again critical? In the talk base it on your feelings of not being happy and wanting to sort it out, try reassuring that the aim is to sort it out. Avoid at all costs specific annoying examples, like the ones you have given here - she may get unhelpfully defensive. Stick to your not happy, you can't live with the fall outs ( regardless of fault/ blame, that they exist at all). You want to get help to sort it out because otherwise you can't see a happy future together.

"Now right now for both of us this (at least should be) the biggest thing that is happening in our lives- a priority. We need to talk things through. But I can see where this is going- this will become a power battle in my wife's mind as to what time we will talk- we only ever talk when she is ready. "

Doe she really know how a big an issue this all really is or do you think she might be thinking it's "just another row that will blow over"?

It took me a long time to learn that I didn't have to split up over every row. Now I'm not sure I'd recognise "the big one" if it happened.

And of course you only talk when she is ready, but also when you are ready. It doesn't make sense to try to have a meaningful discussion about this when she's not ready - but be prepared that she may never be ready.

I would find it easier to understand why someone did not mention a slap. You see slaps presented in films as being a pretty normal reaction - one you might not mention immediately - whereas punches aren't portrayed the same way: a punch is universally recognised as highly aggressive. Hence the different reaction if a mum slapped her child in Tesco's or if she punched her child.

I could imagine why Husband might (wrongly) believe a slap was acceptable, for that reason, but it's harder to imagine why he might think a punch was not worth an immediate mention. Husband, if you think that there's any excuse for your wife punching (or indeed slapping) you, then your views have been warped by your experience.

Can I ask Raven would you be using the accusatory tone you are using with the OP if he were a woman posting this. I don't think your post have been very helpful at all even if they are well meaning.

OP I hope everything goes well with your talk and please come back if you feel you need to.

Awadebumbo, I'm not sure what is accusatory about my "tone"? I'm shocked by the fact that Husband didn't mention this incident immediately, and I think it might help him to understand that it is not OK if I express that shock. I think he needs to realise that this is a shocking thing for her to do, and that someone who is not in their relationship finds it that shocking, rather than an any way normal or excusable.

Awadebumbo, if a woman's partner had punched her, and she wanted to talk to him about it, would you be saying that you hoped everything went well with their talk, and saying that advice to get out of the relationship ASAP was not helpful?

What I meant when I said hope it goes well is I hope things can be resolved one way or another.
If it was me I wouldn't stay if someone hit me at all but the OP might feel that with the right help his marriage problems can be worked through.
Your post has been accusatory you accused the OP of drip feeding and then stated you thought the thread was a wind up.
Is that not the definition of accusatory.

Oh come on raven...

I've mentioned the physical violence several times as I've been shocked at some of the posts saying he was responsible for her reaction. It has not been a new introduction to the thread today. If you didn't read it because you were wrapped up in cheering on math and others in their little hate the op club then your bad, just apologise for getting the wrong impression, don't bother with all the intellectual gymnastics about what is 'bad' violence and what is 'not so bad' violence...

Thank you Offred,
As I've said some of the victim blaming on here has been shocking.

When I asked math what her reasons were for thinking as she did she simply answered 'what he said'... Despite quoting a load of things he'd never said that she had decided he really mean't. Excuse me if I don't think that is justification for blaming someone for being an abuser when they have actually described living in fear of angry outburst which often lead to verbal abuse and sometimes lead to physical abuse.

I think you both need to see a counsellor to talk about the dynamics of your relationship. It sounds, in fact, as though you are both trapped in a cycle where she rages at your passive-aggressive behaviour. There are clearly anger issues in play so you need a 'safe' place where this can be aired without it all becoming terribly personal and furious. I don't see any productive way that you could talk about this at home in the circumstances.

She will probably then need one-to-one counselling for the issues that this will raise to do with her frustrations and anger. And she may need to change some things, including career/aspirations in life.

I also think that you need to be prepared to admit the possibility that change is not possible, and that you need to leave. Paradoxically, I think that this is necessary for her to understand that you DO have limits beyond which you won't be pushed, which may be the cornerstone of her realising that she needs to change.

However, you do need to challenge your own reactions to things. You say that her reactions are 'extreme', but that you feel perfectly justified in getting in a 'grump' about being a little late. Actually, that's not OK, and you may need to give a little in this area in return! I am also not sure that putting the ipod on in the car was wise or kind, really - it comes over as very passive-aggressive.