Being married to a 12 year old.....

[Pinkpeter]

Regular but name changed.

This is my second marriage. First was short and I'll advised, no kids. His second marriage too. He has three kids from previous marriage and a relationship before marriage. We have two kids together, 8 and 5.
I am generally quite unhappy. I am very conscious that I don't want another failed marriage but conscious that we have done marriage guidance twice but we still keep on having issues.

His good points: he works hard at work, does overtime, very involved with his other kids and fought for all the contact he has, which is standard now, every other weekend and half the hols. Lots of issues there, but they would be deal able with if we got on better. Lots of the issues there were probably caused by our very argumentative marriage and how he treats me in front of the kids.
He takes the kids out, parks etc, he pays all the bills, apart from food and clothes, shoes, birthdays etc, I pay all those. He moans I don't pay enough but I earn less than a quarter than him.
He used to be funny, kind, loving and pull his weight and be clean.
Bad points: he often shouts at the kids in a very aggressive manner. He can't cope when they are running around just being kids, he has a hobby that dominates a lot of his time and keeps him glued to the PC. He is often unkind, shouty, and makes jokes at my expense . If I do this back, he can't deal with it but thinks as long as he finds something it is ok to hurt my feelings or take the piss out of me.
He has put on a lot of weight and often smells, so much the living room stinks. If I say nicely, please can you have a bath, he makes such a fuss and is offended. He belches constantly, big loud belching, I mean, several every minute. I have asked him to stop but he just ignores me. His default reply to anything I say or ask is in a nasty tone or sarcastic. He speaks to me like dirt a lot of the time, even first thing in the morning when I can't have done anything to upset him. If I do upset him, he can sulk for days and won't speak. Then when he is ready, he can't discuss anything and I am expected to just get on and forget about it and never discuss anything. A big bad point...he never accepts he has done anything wrong. He always has a reason, an excuse, but he never accepts responsibility for anything. The house often has a bad atmosphere when he is around. He shouts at the kids, is unnecessarily mean to them, will not implement any discipline techniques, just shouting. They are not bad kids at all, quite well behaved but naughty sometimes, like all kids.
This morning I couldn't understand why the milk had been decanted into a glass in the fridge. I am never allowed to sleep past 8am or he will come into my bedroom, (we sleep apart as he snores and twitches terribly, plus sometimes he smells) . I ask him why and he said I didn't need to know. Very hypocritical as I have to answer any question he asks me. I then find out he took the bottle to the bedroom so he could wee in at night! And when I ask why, he says so he doesn't wake up our son !!!
I am utterly disgusted with this. He goes to the loo often in the night and I have said he should go to the doctors but he refuses. I just can't believe how disgusting this is and how he thinks it is acceptable behaviour. I already have to deal with his 12 year old sense of humour, typical tits, arse, fanny jokes.
I don't know what to do or what I want to happen. As he never takes responsibility , he never admits anything is his fault. I don't want to break up our family , I want him to just grow up and act like a man. I don't want to be married to a 12 year old, as I tell him frequently. I want adult conversation, he seems incapable of it at home, but can at work. He just gets home, and turns into a 12 year old. He has a responsible job, think accountant etc.

any suggestions cos I don't want to break up our family.

I was confused by hands around neck? Did you say he actually placed his hands around your neck or that he made the action he was going to but actually didn't touch you? Not that either is excusable / ok in any way but I think I mis read.

I do have a daughter too, the 8 yr old. And no, I wouldn't want this for her.
He has said in the past, when I have told him he is being abusive that I am abusive to him too, that I don't talk to him nicely. But I can't keep things nice between us when he does the rest of the stuff and his default tone is speaking nastily to me.
I have written letters to him in the past. And he then responds and keeps logs of everything I say, in case of needing them in a divorce!
We own our house (with mortage) and I don't think I could afford it on my own. I am self employed anyway and don't earnt that much. I own another property I rent out but not in the same town we live in. It was were I lived before we married. He owns another 3 properties, rented out, but mortgaged up to the hilt.
He already pays maintenance for his other 3 kids.
I think I will write another letter, he may listen better that way. But because of his job he responds in a very businesslike fashion, not emotional at all. Addressing each point, with subpoints a, b and c etc.
it can't do any harm I suppose...

Snowy drops...no, he didn't actually touch me. The odd thing was it wasn't even in the middle of an argument, I could rationalise it a bit more if it was. He was in the bedroom and the kids were playing up and he obviously felt he couldn't deal with it and shouted at them. I kept out of it and was putting washing away in the next room. He came out of the bedroom, came into where I was, put his hands up as though to go around my neck but didn't touch me and said, I'm going to fucking kill you, as my son came in the room. He was only 3 so I don't think he heard or understood. He then left the room and I started crying saying what was that for, I didn't say anything or do anything to deserve that. I don't know why he did it.

Op, I think that despite what you say you do know what you should do. However, your heart is breaking because you can't bear to think he won't step up and love you like he once did. It's a horrible, horrible realisation. You feel like you've failed, that you must have done something wrong, that you're no longer as good a person. None of this is true. You foresaw a certain future and now it's not going to happen.

But I think that this is something you are going to have to accept. Yes you made marriage vows, but it takes two to keep them. You have to live the life that's happening now, you can't long for a potentially better one with this man. Perhaps you need to replace some of your sadness and sorrow with anger. Why has he "become" like this ? How dare he physically threaten you ? How can a grown man sulk at a child ? Why should you feel unable to discuss anything with him ? Who is he to tell you what you really think ?

You don't sound angry in your posts, just confused, upset and frustrated. Does your mother ever get angry with your father ? I'm guessing not. Were you ever allowed to be angry with your parents ?

Writing a letter may make you feel better in the short term but I guarantee it will make zero impact on your husband's attitude towards you. You will poor your heart out for nothing and the hope and despair cycle of your life will start again. You need to make a list of all finances jointly owned and in sole names, take it to a solicitor and see what they say. Don't tell him, just do it, at least you know your options. You could also start planning to save up to divorce him. You don't have to go through with it if he miraculously has a personality change. But at the moment you are making excuses and from what you say it does sound like you would be walking away with nothing. Ok so you may have to change some aspects of your life, but that is part of accepting that if you can't change someone, then you have to change in response to this.

Sorry would NOT be walking away with nothing

self employed with working tax credits and maintenance you may be surprised at your income level as a single mother.

He sounds like he's got some sort of personality disorder.

Pink, that makes a really chilling read.

Do you have anyone to confide in in real life? Not your mum obviously. A friend, cousin?

I fear without support it will be very hard for you. Maybe do the freedom programme?

The "you spoil everything" line is a KILLER for self confidence. If repeated often enough your ds will believe it, he will say/think it about himself and it can turn into a self fulfilling prophecy.

If you ever decide to leave, only do so with someone else there to prevent things escalating.

Op, just read your last couple of posts. My exp's father tried to explain away some of his nasty, controlling behaviours by saying it was his analytical mind, due to years of working in his particular field. He was/is just a selfish, arrogant bully. You say your husband responds to your letters in a business like fashion because of his job. I would disagree. He knows you're not a client, but his wife looking for answers from her husband. He can respond any way he chooses, this is his choice.

As to the circumstances in which he made the action of putting his hands around your neck, that is just very worrying. The fact that he never even addressed it afterwards, I don't know what to say.

You say writing to your husband again can't do any harm, but aren't you just prolonging the agony ?

Between you - you have 5 properties. Even with the mortgages, you will have somewhere else to live. Can you give notice to the ones in your house and live there - or use that rent to pay for somewhere for you whilst you sort out a divorce?

Making notes in case of a divorce - honestly this is not normal.

You husband already knows what the issues are . He's not changed already and he won't change in the future ,for one simple reason

He doesn't want to

You can't change anyone else . It's hard enough to change your own behaviour and habits, even with support and when you are well motivated . Ask anyone who have ever tried to lose weight .

You want musnetters to tell you how you can get Your husband to change . Im sorry, that's inpossible .

So you need to go on living like this or leave .

If he's a great father and the kids love him, that won't change aftre a divorce

Seriously talk to him and treat him how he treats you. Call him a fat stinky pig. The big one for me is how he treats the kids I could in no way shape or form be with someone that treats my kids like shit. I can take it but start on my kids no chance. That's why in your shoes is end the marriage.

Whilst you stay in this fake marriage you are complicit in the abuse I'd your own children they won't thank you for it when they are old enough to leave home and leave you with the fat smelly pig of a husband

If your DH works in a responsible job, how does he get on being smelly and unhygienic in the office, or does he scrub up sometimes?
The lack of cleanliness / taking care of himself could imply depression, not that it makes it any easier to deal with for you of course.
I think you should be very clear with him about what he needs to change if you are going to stay married. If in a month nothing has changed and you can see no effort from him to make change, I'd be gone, life's too short.
He has to want to try, give him a chance, make it clear that is what you are offering, but if nothing gives you can say you have tried and leave with a clear conscience.

He does not smell all the time, and not at work. Just after work or after a day out. He wears clean clothes for work and baths most mornings. He can just smell at other times. Or his feet stink but he won't go and wash them.

Like most people in your situation [and I'm not blaming you - it's hard to see the wood for the trees when you are in it] - you are focusing on the deckchairs when the fact of the matter is - there is a fucking big iceberg in your path.

oh that's ok then

He doesn't love you. He doesn't give a shit about you, or your children. That's not going to change, whatever you say or do.

You have the choice to do something about it - and bring your children out of what is a toxic situation - or could can all just stay in the (physical and emotional) pigsty with him.

The fact of the matter is, if you want to change the life you are currently leading, then it is you and only you that can do anything about that. Either you can live with you life as it is and put up with him for many more years to come, or you can't and you make the decision to leave. We have all told you over and over that you can't change your husband, so you need to think about your next move.

Can you imagine what your children will think about this in the future if you stay? In the best-case scenario, they will ask you (or wonder to themselves) why on earth you put up with it. Or they will pity you, because this is rather pitiful.

And that is the best-case scenario.

this stinking thing looks like an act of deliberate disrespect and aggression towards you

like he is making sure you know beyond all doubt that he has so little regard for yo and is is so disinvesteed in how much respect you have for him that he flaunts his body odour in your face

he might as well punch you, tbh....I have heard some women say they would prefer the direct action of physical violence as opposed to this insidious emotional abuse

Sorry he just sounds like hell to live with, OP.

And I don't agree that you should descend to his level and say nasty things to him, what would you gain by that? Just see a lawyer, get your papers together and start making plans. We can only change ourselves and that with great difficulty.

What do you get out of this relationship now?.

He does not love you PinkPeter and never has; he just sees you as someone to look after him. He could not give a toss for your distress in this marriage. Your heading is not right either; a more appropriate heading would be describing him not as 12 but instead as an abusive and emotionally stunted manchild.

The only way forward for you and your children is to divorce this man, end of. He has failed here and his previous marriage likely ended for the self same reasons as this one will also. He is an appalling example of a stepfather to these children and is also doing a number on them in terms of lowering their already fragile self worth as well.

They do not love him pink, they live in fear of him instead and have learnt to tread on eggshells just like you as their mother has done. They know their mum is not happy and perhaps even blame themselves for their parents marital woes. They also do their utmost to appease him and not piss him (or you) off.

Forget writing letters, that will achieve nothing from your perspective. It will only make him more aware of how unhappy you are and will further up the power and control against you and your children.

What do you think your children are learning about relationships here; do you want them to think that yes, this is how people actually behave in marriage?. You want this to become their norm?. Of course not.

He will not change; this is deeply rooted within his own psyche. It would not surprise me one bit if his own parents were similarly abusive to him when he was a child. This dysfunctional stuff is learnt which also makes me wonder what you also learnt about relationships when growing up.

Womens Aid on 0808 2000 247 can and will help you leave. You have a choice re this man; your children do not.

I have no experience of this, but please, please please listen to what the pp's are telling you.
I have read the whole thread; it sounds appalling, chilling, and unbelievable, but it isn't. It's happening to you and your children now. Get out.
There is nothing you have written that makes me think this so called husband/father deserves you or your/his children in his life.
You have described a narcissist brute and I fear for your and the children's safety.
What struck me as particularly awful was when you wrote that he came to seek you out to put his hands around your neck because (it would appear) the children were annoying him. Like he had to find a release for his anger?
What would have happened if you weren't there?