Please help- husbands hygiene and habits

[LadyLampShade]

Hello all, I'm here looking for helpful advice to deal with my husbands longstanding neglect of his health and personal hygiene. Sorry, it's quite a long one! I'm 27 and he's 31.
Yes I have been aware of his lacklustre routine and knew what he was like before marriage, but I am now at my wits end. We have been together 9 years, married for 3, have just bought our first house and are planning a baby. The emotional side of our relationship is great and our daily lives together are just what we want, but...
He very rarely brushes his teeth (3-4 times a week) and only believes he needs to shower/bathe every other day (bear in mind he cycles to work and spends one night a week in a sweat box music studio) he is lax with his hand washing regime and doesn't make deodorant his best friend. The bottom line is he is lazy, and just can't be bothered with the effort. I struggle to understand why he can't take 10 minutes in the morning to brush teeth and use deo as a bare minimum before heading out the door.
On the mornings he does get up to shower, he makes sure he gets up at a time so that he can return to bed for 20 mins before getting up 5 minutes before he needs to leave, claiming he doesn't have time to brush his teeth or use deo. Drives me completely mental. 2 years ago it cost us £300 in dental bills, and he seems happy with the fact his teeth will probably just fall out of his head one day. We have talked about this MANY times and I've tried various approaches. I asked him to understand what it might be like for his work colleagues to sit next to him after he has cycled 5 miles in his shirt without deo, ive told him I'm worried about his dental health and my personal health when he doesn't hand wash, and also it pleasent to kiss him when he hasn't looked after his teeth for a few days. He also can't bear to throw away his clothes/shoes until the physically fall apart!

I love him very much, he looks after me and understands my sometimes over emotional state! We enjoy creating our home together, cooking together, going on holidays and recently started exercising together. He makes me laugh, feel loved and always has time for me. He is much loved by friends and family, my family love him and I have a great relationship with his parents.

What can I do to help and encourage him to improve this area? It's starting to eat away at me and create tension. He's recently told me to stop 'telling me what to do, you make me feel like a child' and Ive stopped the reminders, so he's stopped the hygiene! Help!

I agree with Atilla, and also put forward that he has mental health issues.

Would you make an appointment with the GP / psychiatrist for him?

This isn't normal you know. He needs counselling, and possibly medication, you need counselling and you need counselling together.

Don't have a baby yet, till you know where you are, and if he's going to be a grown up.

You have a life of misery ahead if nothing changes. People have lost their jobs for stinking ...... could you support him if he was jobless?

Something's seriously wrong. Get help.

Whonickedmyname I was really hoping I wouldn't get inflammatory posts like yours, but I suppose this is what I get for posting in a public forum! he is not vile, and despite what you might be imagining, he does not 'stink' I did say he showers every other day, but he actually needs to be more rigourous now he cycles to work and the temperatures are rising. He understands the need to clean his teeth but he just doesn't, and I can't figure out why some weeks he is perfectly able to do it daily and others he doesn't bother. I am looking for help to allow me to help him!

Thank you to those who have been helpful and have not simply been rude and used my post as an excuse tell other people they are disgusting and vile, as that sort of thing never helps!

I had an x who claimed he didn't need to was as sex cleaned his.... I have never felt so turned off in my life.

*Wash.

I didn't say he was vile - I said the fact that you have to tell him to brush his teeth before you can have sex with him is vile - and it is. Do you prefer 'unpleasant', 'unsavoury', 'off-putting'? I also didn't say anything about him stinking.

The fact is, in your own words, he understands the need to clean his teeth/shower - but he still doesn't do it, he's lazy, can't be bothered, happy that all his teeth will fall out of his head. He knows his lack of hygiene upsets/offends you but still he does nothing about it. He'll try and initiate sex with an unclean body and unclean teeth. Why do you think that is?

He's been like this for 9 years and it sounds like you've tried everything - talking, softly softly, being rude and unkind - and he doesn't change. And I'm sorry but even joking about having to use a star chart or reward chart for an adult to take care of their basic hygiene - really?

There's no magic solution here.

This would be a dealbreaker for me, as a last ditch attempt I'd suggest that he needs to visit the GP/seek counselling, there needs to be an immediate improvement and if there isn't, I'm off. And I'd mean it. Maybe you're not really at that point yet, but it sounds like you're getting there.

Ok, thank you whonickedmyname. I have a lot to think about and digest about our life together recently and there are things to address. I've noticed how this all comes to the surface when I'm on annual leave and have nothing to keep my mind busy. My real feelings have been buried under the stresses of daily life. I just really hope it's not too late to turn this around, but I am beating myself up for allowing this to become a problem in my life without doing anything about it. Fingers crossed we can find my husband buried under all these habits that have become magnified And more obvious over the years.

"I am looking for help to allow me to help him!"

You've tried helping him and what you have tried to date has not worked. You ended up mothering him as a result. He thus went into child mode and further rebelled against you and wider society.

That's the thing; he does not want your help. He's actively resented that and further shut you down. Also and I mean this kindly you are far too close to the situation for you to be of any real help to him. He has to want to do this for his own self, any will to change has to come from within him. You cannot influence that part of the process.

He could well be a very angry young man, he is certainly deeply troubled. The facts that he is caring (that word again) and kind to children and animals is really irrelevant here.

If he has been like this for the past 9 years, what triggered this when he was 22?. Or (as I suspect) do the roots of all this go back long before that age?.

What's your husband actually saying with his bad behaviour?

I think he sees you as completely in charge and he dislikes this state of affairs intensely. Have you really been in charge of this marriage to date, have you been solely driving this marriage forward rather than being equal?.

How can you know he is deeply troubled?

How can we get to the bottom of this? He closes off completely when we try to discuss things, he tells me he is fine and there is nothing wrong. He tells me he can't imagine his life without me and that I'm the best thing in his life. I don't really know what I was looking for from this post but I seem to finding a lot of questions, self doubt and heartache. And now I'm truly confused

I wouldn't let him near me when he's not washed or done his teeth.

I would avoid all physical contact and kissing etc unless he had.

When he had id make it clear I found that attractive and initiate holding hands, cuddling, kissing and sex, but I'd keep my distance on days he didn't and if he tried it I'd tell him to get cleaned up first.

If that didn't work im afraid I'd not go near him as hygiene is a must for me, as is considerations for my feelings and respecting me enough not to think I'd make a fuss unless it was a real issue. That's the bit I find most disturbing, that he doesn't value your views and sees you as the issue. That's your biggest problem I'm afraid

Attila I think you might be right :-( I do decide the majority of things, book holidays, do the shop, help him to decide what to cook for dinner etc. I've talked to him about being more proactive in these areas but he says'you're better at than I am/I don't know how to do that/I can't see the mess or washing up like you' gah :-(

Interesting! My stbx was quite like this too - could well stem from neglect as a child, as youngest and parents in high conflict marriage. I put up with it, maybe a little bit endearing at first, when I was 19. Take it from me, when you have children you are trying to instil good habits into and he refuses to wash, brush his teeth, use deodorant, put his clothes away, throw out clothes that have holes - it gets more difficult to live with, you want another adult in the house. Now he is with OW and it is amazing, total makeover, new designer clothes, sweet smelling, regular dental visits, I am so impressed but I didn't manage to get him to do that for me, maybe because I accepted it when we met at 19, I certainly wouldn't accept it now.

This is not just a battle about hygiene - this is also a battle about your relationship.

Hygiene issues like the ones you are writing about are often linked to depression, anger, resentment and emotional anguish. Unfortunately for you your H is also in denial, he is clearly not happy and is lying to his own self as well as you.

Answers are not easy to come by but there has to be change from both of you if your marriage is going to move at all forward. You've both had roles; you've been in controlling-mother mode and your H is reacting like a rebellious child.

If he does not or will not go to counselling or the GP I would go on your own.

Actually, I think there are some overreactions here. If the OP prefers him to shower every day, or clean his teeth twice a day, or whatever, that is one thing. If she dislikes the result of him not doing that, then that's another thing.

I don't clean my teeth every day and on the days I do it I only do it in the morning. I've never had to spend £300 on dental work so I cannot see that these two are connected. I have one small filling I got as a teenager. Mind you, I've not been to the dentist for about 7 years, only been maybe 5 times in my adult life, so if I did go maybe it would be £300, who knows.

And at weekends I don't always shower. Mind you, I don't cycle to work. I do always at least wash and I do tend to use deo (ironically unless I know I am going to be doing something physical, because actually I think it's a waste as it doesn't work anyway).

I've got to the point where I don't need to wash my hair every day, which is fantastic! I used to have to wash it daily but it has changed and now I don't need to.

It's only a fairly recent thing this obsession with washing.

OH has never suggested that I smell, in fact no one has.

The OP is a nanny, constantly telling children to wash their hands - that's fine, and it's about good habits (I am a trained nursery nurse myself) but this does not translate to telling an adult how to behave.

My OH doesn't always wash his hands, but as he says to me - he only held his willy to wee, his willy isn't dirty, he didn't pee on his hands, how is it different to holding/touching any part of his body.

I think hysteria about hygiene is unnecessary.

BUT - I do think that if the OP has preferences and her husband isn't listening to her, that's different. It's an issue of respect and consideration. That is where the issue is, not how often he showers or whether he does as she tells him when she tells him to wash his hands.

I think you do have to challenge him on his response 'I'm fine' by replying, 'But I'm not fine. I find the smell and your lack of empathy towards me with regard to how off putting your hygiene is really troubling. It feels like you don't care whether or not you are attractive to me, and it feels like you are casting me in the role of nagging mum not equal.'

If he wants to, he'll make the effort and he'll investigate why he's not behaving like an adult equal in your relationship and put that straight.

I agree with Attila, it seems like there is a more deep seated pattern driving his behaviour. Even if he won't agree to counselling (or indeed won't agree to recognise that the issue is larger than remembering to brush his teeth) then it will probably help you by giving you some additional tools to manage the situation.

For example, seeing some of your interactions as being driven by more scripted "learned" patterns of behaviour (eg transactional analysis is based on this idea) could give you some tools for breaking the habits and moving into a more adult balance between the two of you.

Why does he have to have some deep seated mental health issue? He just sounds like a lazy git to me who absolutely can't be arsed to brush his teeth half the time. Would I put up with this? Would I hell.

And a star chart for an adult is absolutely laughable. If he won't keep himself clean for himself OP then he is unlikely to do it for you off his own bat.

It depends on his body type, my husband would absolutely stink under this regime, he's a very sweaty person, and if he takes exercise or cycles, he has to shower immediately, otherwise he really would smell all day or evening. He has to shower once or twice a day, use deo/keep fresh and change his t-shirt a lot.

I can get away with less, I don't shower about one or two days a week if I can't be bothered, but always wash my nether regions and would never ever think my husband should just put up with that!

I would imagine the OP's husband does smell- if you cycle 5 miles without deodorant, even the least sweaty type of person will start to smell on a hot day.

I was going to ask about housework, because it seems to me unlikely he does tonnes of cleaning of toilets, bathrooms, hoovering and washing up, but doesn't wash himself.

I was prepared to bet, although you have now answered the question, that he's very 'laid-back' in the house cleaning dep't too.#

The reason may not be deep and meaningful or connected with emotions- at the moment he lives like a teenage boy and has no incentive to change. I'd quite like not to bother with housework, or taking a shower on days I don't leave the house (homeworking) but I do because of courtesy to my husband. He doesn't feel like that, and there's your issue.

I don't mind at all people who do not shower daily, some people just don't need to as they do not have that kind of physical activity that requires it, but if you are cycling to work then you need to, simple as. We have a man who cycles to work and he has the shower at work when he gets here (I don't even know WHY we have a shower in the building haha)

But the person who said they also don't brush their teeth daily. Truly disgusting. I have had a LOT of dental work (in the thousands) and I brush and floss everyday, so it's not really a case of dental work, but the horrible festering stink and linger of whatever you have ate that day. Manky. There is no other word. I can't even imagine why anyone would want to have that taste in their mouth by choice.

OP my OH also rolls out of bed in the morning about 10 mins before leaving, he has his shower at night, still brushes his teeth, feeds the cats, although he could do with a brush being put through his hair.

Your partner is idle. YOU shouldn't have to do anything for him to improve his hygiene, but how you can be trying for a baby with him in that condition seems silly. IF he can't wash and care for himself, and only wants to get up 5 mins before leaving the house, a newborn would be an insane concept for him. Not to mention his complete lack of hygiene not being great for handling a newborn.

Crossed posts with Fanny

I think his response is very telling- don't nag me, he is like a teenage boy.

Unfortunately his laid back attitude might be lovely when petting small dogs or round at your family's house, but it won't be much fun having a child in this environment, when he continues not to see the need to clean the floor after they eat, or clean the bathroom, or change their nappy regularly or wash their face after food. He will be as lazy with a child's hygiene as his own because he doesn't see it as necessary and he's just not bothered what you think.

It is hard to hear that an aspect of your personal life isn't so attractive to your mate, but it sounds in this case he knows this and just doesn't care about it enough.

As for household tasks, again, his learned helplessness (I can't do it, you are better) is serving him well.

No wonder he's laid back if no-one makes him do anything and he doesn't even meet basic social norms of hygiene, his life must be extremely relaxing, just not for those around him,

So when you have kids, will he also have to be reminded to change their nappies? Or will the kid be sitting in poo getting a rash for hours?

What about bathing them? Brushing their teeth? Making sure they have clean hands?

If he can't do it for himself, you will be doing everything and by the time they are grown you will resent him.

I'd go the harsh way, if he can't look after himself, you won't and he needs to go stink somewhere else. Do it while you are 27 and not 37 with two children.

This goes far beyond mere laziness; this is a problem of many years standing. This is passive aggressive on his part and he is also angry. He is taking revenge here by stinking, its a protest.

What if he shuts you out down OP, goes into denial mode again or just as bad accuses you of nagging when you try and talk to him about these issues?. It is not just an annoying problem either, its affecting your marriage very badly.

Do not bring a child into this until you two have fully worked through this issue.

I don't want my DP to shower every day, I want him to smell of him not something synthetic perfume.
I don't want a smooth manicured gent, I want my slightly musky bloke.
However teeth cleaning twice daily and again for bad breath is a minimum.
I think perhaps you need to decide what is your minimum?