Please help- husbands hygiene and habits

[LadyLampShade]

Hello all, I'm here looking for helpful advice to deal with my husbands longstanding neglect of his health and personal hygiene. Sorry, it's quite a long one! I'm 27 and he's 31.
Yes I have been aware of his lacklustre routine and knew what he was like before marriage, but I am now at my wits end. We have been together 9 years, married for 3, have just bought our first house and are planning a baby. The emotional side of our relationship is great and our daily lives together are just what we want, but...
He very rarely brushes his teeth (3-4 times a week) and only believes he needs to shower/bathe every other day (bear in mind he cycles to work and spends one night a week in a sweat box music studio) he is lax with his hand washing regime and doesn't make deodorant his best friend. The bottom line is he is lazy, and just can't be bothered with the effort. I struggle to understand why he can't take 10 minutes in the morning to brush teeth and use deo as a bare minimum before heading out the door.
On the mornings he does get up to shower, he makes sure he gets up at a time so that he can return to bed for 20 mins before getting up 5 minutes before he needs to leave, claiming he doesn't have time to brush his teeth or use deo. Drives me completely mental. 2 years ago it cost us £300 in dental bills, and he seems happy with the fact his teeth will probably just fall out of his head one day. We have talked about this MANY times and I've tried various approaches. I asked him to understand what it might be like for his work colleagues to sit next to him after he has cycled 5 miles in his shirt without deo, ive told him I'm worried about his dental health and my personal health when he doesn't hand wash, and also it pleasent to kiss him when he hasn't looked after his teeth for a few days. He also can't bear to throw away his clothes/shoes until the physically fall apart!

I love him very much, he looks after me and understands my sometimes over emotional state! We enjoy creating our home together, cooking together, going on holidays and recently started exercising together. He makes me laugh, feel loved and always has time for me. He is much loved by friends and family, my family love him and I have a great relationship with his parents.

What can I do to help and encourage him to improve this area? It's starting to eat away at me and create tension. He's recently told me to stop 'telling me what to do, you make me feel like a child' and Ive stopped the reminders, so he's stopped the hygiene! Help!

[ScrambledEggAndToast]

There will be serious trouble


Not sure where the rest of my message went!!

[CheapSunglasses]

Throughout the whole thread Melon you've said you don't brush your teeth or shower as often as everyone else and that it's not a big deal.

Is that not what you've meant?

[PanGalaticGargleBlaster]

'All I can think of it sweaty balls and I feel sorry for you'

[Queenofwands]

I have seen this work in action and people do change, or I wouldn't have said I thought it would work. OP come off this thread some horrible people on here.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Heyho's suggestion is profoundly depressing and just wrong. We are talking about an adult here, not a three year old. You've already agreed that you've mothered him as well.

What you have tried to date has simply not worked. Time for a different tack from both of you. Both of you have put the relationship where it now is, both of you need to take full responsibility here. Not you and you alone carrying this either.

He's already told you to stop telling him what to do because he feels like a child. Listen to each other properly now.

[EhricLovesTheBhrothers]

Fucking behaviour charts and rewards for a grown adult to remember when to brush their teeth and wash their hands

For gods sake this is a farce. OP you're on a hiding to nothing with this because you're totally entrenched in a parent/child dynamic and setting him a star chart is just going to make it worse. He doesn't want to change anyway, what makes you think a reward chart will help? He doesn't want you nagging him so you're going to step up the nagging to a whole new, insane, level?

[Gabilan]

"I am sorry I ever posted here, I wanted some helpful friendly advice and not to be told how silly I am to ever allowed myself to feel this way. It's too late to beat myself up about it so I need help to change. You are all making assumptions of how awful it must be to live with him and deal with it! his hygiene routine could do with some improvement, he is a lax with household chores but at the end of the day he treats me well"

Lampshade I am amazed at the number of people on here who are able to make in-depth and definitive psychological analyses of your DH without ever having met him and on the basis of a second hand account (yours) of his actions.

That said, I think there are a few general things to bear in mind. Self care can go to pot when you are depressed or have some kind of mood disorder. It's not laziness or lack of respect for the other person. It's much nearer to self loathing which means that nagging, however well intentioned, can make your feel worse about yourself, thus inadvertently adding to the problem. I do think from the various things you've said that you and your DH would benefit from some counselling to talk through a few things, in particular the early loss of his brother must have affected him. As for whether he's angry or passive aggressive or whatever else people are diagnosing, I don't know. I'm not a doctor and even if I were, I wouldn't make a definitive diagnosis over the internet.

Good luck with things. If everyone bailed on a relationship as often as people on the internet tell them to, the divorce rate would be even higher than it already is.

[Galvanised]

Ehric, have you any clue about autism/aspergers? What you are saying is hurtful.
Perhaps personal care comes naturally to you and everyone in your circle, but there are plenty of adults that actually do struggle with this.
They are not idiots, or abusive, or lazy - these things that are so easy for you are not that easy for others.
I'm sure there are lazy people out there, but the op's husband really doesn't seem to fit into that category.
The way you and others have reacted on this thread, with absolutely no compassion or wish to try to understand a different perspective, have made me fearful for my child and his future.
If you cared to do some reading, you might find that establishing routines for personal care is the way forward for someone who is on the spectrum and is struggling to conform with social norms.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

No-one has made any sort of definitive diagnosis but other people have pointed out to the OP that mental health issues can be a root cause. You have yourself cited mood disorders, its certainly not beyond the realms of possibility here. Is it however, a possibility that OP wants to consider?.

One person i.e. the OP cannot solve this on their own much as she would like to; both parties here have to really want change and not just pay lip service to the problem.

He is acting like this for reasons not yet understood to the OP but what she has tried to date certainly has not worked and has likely further enabled these very real problems to simply continue unabated.

[Offred]

The op's husband has no diagnosis though except from mumsnet.

One perspective is he may be on the spectrum. Another perspective is he may be lazy and inconsiderate.

Why talk as if only one perspective on this is valid?

[SnowflakeObsidian]

I think if you are planning on having a child, and he is a man with a caring nurturing nature, this might be the push to change that he needs. It can be hard to change habits however weird or disgusting those habits might seem from outside. It will take your man more energy in terms of overcoming inertia to make the change than it will when he is used to doing it. So if you can supply the extra energy for him initially he will eventually get in the habit and do it without thinking about it.

It does sound as if he never got into the habit as a child and never got the nagging, reminding, assisting and so on that most of us got, so he might need it now. I don't think it's helpful to speculate on whether he should or shouldn't need all this extra help. This is a purely practical issue. You've already established that he is thoughtful and helpful in other ways, but this is his big weakness. When you are pregnant you won't be able to tolerate even a whiff of smelly breath or BO and once you are sleep-deprived and stressed you won't feel laid-back about carrying the hygiene burden so make this a dealbreaker, not for the relationship, but for having a child.

I would laugh about it but be firm - don't let him out of the bathroom until his teeth are clean or he has washed his hands! Block the way to the door before the deodorant is on! Point out you are a clean person and don't want him showing you up! Snog him when he cleans his teeth, be all over him when he showers at the weekend. Don't kiss him or sleep with him otherwise. And keep at it. Be as annoying as a buzzing fly - every time he doesn't wash or doesn't clean his teeth, point it out. There must be something he'd like you to change (other than not nagging him that is!) so maybe you can trade. (Would it help to make him watch Kim and Aggie?

I know a couple of other people who have had success with this approach so it might work for you. Good luck! Not only you, but he, will feel so much better when he is clean and fresh and sparkly on a regular basis. :) )

[Offred]

OP has he always been like this or did things change?

[Galvanised]

You are right, I'm reacting because I have been faced with the same re. my child being, lazy, inconsiderate, aggressive, odd, useless, not the same as his peers wrt abilities. So that's where I'm coming from.
At this stage, I am hyper aware of autistic traits. By the time my child got his diagnosis I really didn't need a doctor to confirm it, I'm sure many parents who have been through the process would say the same.
I'm also aware that most adults with autism/asd/aspergers are undiagnosed. Much of the time they don't need a diagnosis as they can manage, but it would be great if others were more aware of it and were less likely to write these people off as losers.

[SnowflakeObsidian]

P.S. I don't think it is treating your husband like a child necessarily - it's all in the way it's done. I don't think there is any need to shame him and it's possible to do it in a playful, affectionate way with the focus more on what you need than on what he "should" do. But then this is what I've seen other people do with success - I was a wimp and put up and shut up and I wish with all my heart I hadn't. It didn't help anyone.

[Offred]

It would. I have friends who have really struggled with the lack of support that basically comes with not having got the diagnosis yet and other people's ill informed attitudes but I'm also aware that actually some people are also just lazy and selfish!

Probably the OP could do with getting to the bottom of why he is acting like this and therefore the suggestions he is on the spectrum and how to deal with that from posters who have been through it could be enormously helpful in the end!

[Gabilan]

"you can always smell a person who has just got out of bed"

How do you know you can? You can smell when some people have just got out of bed. But unless you've stood and watched everyone and then sniffed them, you cannot know this is universally true. There may be many people out there who don't smell when they've just got up. You encounter them later on and decide that because they don't smell, they've washed.

I can often detect when someone's drunk coffee. Instant coffee in particular stinks. However, I can't claim I always know because I don't follow everyone around after they've drunk coffee.

And as for claims that everyone must have a shower after they've cycled 5 miles, it really does depend on the individual, how fit they are and how fast they've cycled. I could do 5 miles in half an hour and within 60 seconds my heart rate would be normal and you'd have no idea what I'd been up to. On the rare occasions when the English climate creeps above 20 degrees c at the time in the morning when I'm commuting into work I make sure I change my t-shirt when I get into the office.

[Offred]

but gabilan - the op wouldn't have an issue if her husband's lack of showering/teeth brushing wasn't having consequences.

[Gabilan]

True, Offred. I wasn't criticising the OP. Evidently there are consequences in that situation. My last post was more a response to people holding their hands up in horror at the idea of anyone not showering immediately after cycling 5 miles.

Yes, for the OP her husband's standards of hygiene are concerning and that's fair enough. Just pointing out that there isn't however a one-size fits all model for how often people need to wash themselves and brush their teeth.

[Happyfriday]

There is a one size fits all model gabilan - wash/shower/bath once a day and clean your teeth morning and night. Everyone knows that. It's on the school syllabus! I went to school in the 70s and learnt that and the basics of personal hygiene are taught through the PSHE curriculum at primary and secondary schools throughout the land.

[Gfplux]

Please do not have a child until he changes, and becomes an adult who can take care of a child.

[Gfplux]

Do not bring a child in to this relationship unless he grows up.

[Gabilan]

Happyfriday that model is quite specific to the western world in a temperate climate from the late 20th century. If I were you I'd have a think about how that advice came about.

In some circumstances it's inadequate. If I've been eating something sugary, drinking coffee or eating something strongly flavoured I'll quite often brush my teeth during the day as well as morning and evening. If I exercise in 30 degree heat, showering once a day won't be enough. Conversely, if you live in a very cold climate the advice is not to wash every day as it strips off the skins natural oils which help you keep warm.

"Wash once a day" is generic advice. Being on the PSHE curriculum does not make it infallible. It's easy for children to remember and it can be a good habit to get into. It doesn't mean it's the right thing for everyone to do in all circumstances throughout life.

If you can show me peer-reviewed medical research that proves that humans live healthier longer lives by washing every day I'll reconsider. Hygiene is important for health, yes. Brushing teeth especially so but it really isn't compulsory for everybody in all manner of different climates, at different levels of activity to stick to identical hygiene regimes.

[laurierf]

I went to school later than the 70s and never got taught how often to wash, ever.. (we did get a dentist and a dental hygiene person come in and talk to us at primary school when I was 8 (I remember because that's when I got braces)… but frankly it can easily go in one ear and out the other when you're that age if it's not reinforced at home.

I'm surprised that so many posters don't seem to know anyone who wasn't brought up to wash/brush teeth everyday. I wasn't. I took it upon myself to start doing so when I realised that's what other people at secondary school were doing but then I was always very susceptible to what my peers were doing when I was that age (for the positive and the negative).

To say adults who haven't established this routine need to 'grow up' would be to overlook the fact that they hold down jobs and get promoted, pay their mortgages and bills, provide for their families and can be all-round bloody nice and intelligent people. They don't 'get' the health factors, in the same way lots of us find it incredibly difficult to break unhealthy habits we were brought up with or have formed later in life.

[velourvoyageur]

sorry if this has already been said a lot, but how's his confidence?
He might be scared of the reaction he thinks he'll get from you (positive fuss) if he bucks up and starts being cleaner. He might be scared of being embarrassed by your reaction.
I used to be scared of being "groomed" (eyebrows, hair, makeup) because I thought people might look at me and go, oh why is she even trying to make herself look better, she can't be arrogant enough to think she could ever look good. I had no idea it was because I wasn't feeling confident about myself rather than because I was actually a disgusting person as I was thinking.

I was honestly shocked by the brushing teeth four times a week- if like that you deviate so far from what you're used to from the people around you it might be indicative of a deeper problem. I do feel for you- really difficult situation.

Maybe in terms of a more practical step, could you write down a list of the very minimum that would make you happier, and get him to write down a list of the very maximum he feels he can do regularly, and compare the two to come to some sort of compromise? That way he may not feel so threatened and you'll have an improvement of some time. It can be done with a view to making tweaks and adjustments in future.

As for laid back, have you seen Anger Management! Maybe being so calm is his coping mechanism or something. I don't think it's unusual to be angry about something, but everyone experiences anger differently. Your DP might be turning it inwards while other people are unkind to others. It just happens to be problematic in a different way in this situation.

[signinginthereign]

When I was 21 I lived with someone who was exactly like this.

That is not 100% true, he started off doing exactly the same things as your OH. but his behaviour worsened over a couple of months. The night he came to bed after going to the toilet and not wiping his bottom and got shit all over my lovely John Lewis bedding was the night I moved out of the bedroom. It was utterly disgusting.

So my advice, get shot before his behaviour escalates....

Oh, and within weeks I discovered he had been seeing a work colleague behind my back. Years later they are married now, and I did have a sneakypeek at her FB profile and there is a picture of their marital bed and I did the whole Michael McIntyre sick-in-your-throat thing.