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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I am the OW...

178 replies

spitefulme · 20/05/2015 20:50

Long story short...
I am a 38 year old woman, 1 child, separated, I have a fuck buddies relation with a married man.

3 years ago I separated from my husband of 11 years because of his drinking. We had a phase of getting back together, he wanted to start treatment but didn't. Instead, he found himself a mistress and a marriage didn't survive. I used to see my husband as a soulmate and had a number of happy years together, but now I doubt how much real it all was, as he is a person with obvious NPD traits, and even the past with him seems like one big lie now. Sometimes I think that the only good think I got out of this marriage is my beautiful daughter.
Ex is still 'happy' with the OW, 15 years younger than me.

In the meantime I had one serious relationship which died as well, as my partner didn't want to commit because of distance between us and disability of one of his young children.

Despite receiving counselling and taking antidepressants for years now, it seems like I cannot sort out my own head and understand that I need to see my own value first, before I get into any relationship, otherwise it will never be healthy.

I was in very bad place for the last couple of months, I desperately needed someone who would 'confirm' my value, made me feel wanted again. Pathetic, I know.

I threw myself in a string of casual sex relations, I guess I met 4-5 men and I had sex with all of them. Most of them were met online.
One of the men I met is married. The nicest one, the only one who actually doesn't treat me as meat, as fuck, he is genuinely interested in me as a human being. I think this is what attracts me most to him.
He claims that he lives in a sexless marriage.
He loves his wife and his 2 little children, but his wife has very low sex drive and pushes him away whenever he wants to be intimate. He says that she always had very little needs but since children arrived, they have sex 3-4 times a year. He tried to talk to her about it but she finds excuses of being busy with children and says she doesn't really need it. He suggested therapy, going away, babysitter so they could have time together - all she says is no, because she is happy the way it is. He says she trusts him 100% and they always been good friends, so she would never ever think he can cheat. So he decided he just needs to find someone for sex to fill this gap...
I developed friendship with that guy, we met a couple fo times and finally we had sex. It was great, we are very compatible and I could easily say that he is deprived of it. He is a very passionate man and I struggle to imagine that any healthy woman wouldn't be happy to make love to him, which leads me to conclusion that his wife does have issues with her sex drive.

He claims he doesn't want to split with his wife, that he cannot imagine living without his children, but on the other hand he cannot carry on without sex.

I know I should end this and what we do is just disgusting.
The facts are that he cheats on his wife and I am the OW.
On the other hand I kind of 'justify' it by thinking that for both of us it is just sex and a bit of intimacy. I have no intentions of splitting his family, he would never do it anyway, and I would never want it as I know best how it hurts, how much children suffer etc.
The risk of his wife finding out are minimal - we never speak on the phone, just text via kik or email. We don't exchange any dirty pictures, meet once a month maximum. He is normally very devoted to his family and children, it's not like he deprives them of his time, attention, money. We don't exchange any gifts or pay for hotels or trips - it is all very casual and we both lead our independent lives, apart from this short hours of intimacy.
I know it will have to end at some point, and every time I see him, I feel guilty... but then I think that if it wasn't me, it would be someone else... and at least I have no intentions of messing his life up.
Now, why am I writing all this... I guess it is because of guilt. I was always quite strict about being faithful and honest in relationship and in general, never cheated myself, but after that last year, when I was lied to and cheated on by my own husband, and then disappointed in another relationship, it is as if something broke inside me. I just don't feel like it's worth being honest, being the good one anymore. All the genuine and honest people around me end up lonely or used, and the ones who think of themselves are just better off... like my ex and his mistress, like so many other people I know.
I am aware of the fact that my self esteem is crushed now, that probably the only reason I am sleeping with a married man is the fact that I like the attention he gives me. I like him a lot as a person and obviously worry that I can develop feeling at some point, which will leave me in even deeper hole than now.
I would like to have a normal loving relationship but I kind of lost faith in it. It's like I have already had my bit of love with ex husband and there is nothing left for me in this life, apart from being a shag for a man, who still loves someone else.
Why am I writing all this... I think I just need someone to talk some sense into me. That arrangement leads nowewhere, I do not want to harm anybody but I am, in a way, doing this... I know affairs are wrong, that nobody deserves to be cheated on... but still I am in it. My counselor said that I do not harm anyone because I am single and I do not cheat, it's him... but still I do feel guilty.
How to change it? How to come back to the values I used to believe in, after having them rubbed in my face by ex and after doing what I did?

OP posts:
popalot · 21/05/2015 13:45

The issue is not the affair for you, it is how low your self esteem has got that you take the scraps of this man and believe what he is telling you. That's what you need to sort out. It will all follow from there.

You need to stop seeing anyone and look after your damaged self - the person who was hurt (and is continually hurt by his lack of interest in your children) by your ex. You need to find the good in you and stop thinking you are bad, as it is allowing you to do something that is hurtful to another innocent person and their family.

Once you start putting yourself first and treating yourself kindly, you won't accept the scraps of attention from this cheating man. whether or not he is having sex with his wife is of no consequence, it might be a 'reason' but it is not an excuse. Forget about all that. He's treating you like a piece of meat and you are accepting that. Because you feel so low about yourself.

Well, don't accept it. Don't see yourself as that woman who hurts others by her actions. Just stop and take stock and love yourself. You are a mother. You are coping despite the breakup of your marriage, despite knowing he left you for a younger woman (which, he will do again to her once she grows up a bit and he doesn't like it). You have so much to give and so much to congratulate yourself on. Don't sully your self esteem with this relationship.

MorrisZapp · 21/05/2015 13:49

Lovely post popalot.

pocketsaviour · 21/05/2015 14:13

Cheers and Morris I do have some inclination towards your viewpoints and internalised misogyny is certainly at play here. Particularly when you consider that men who shag married women are never asked "How could you do that to another man?"

They're basically patted on the back by their mates and told "Nice one!"

That doesn't though, in my view, absolve people from a certain amount of responsibility. Sure the OW or OM isn't the one who's made vows - but they are knowingly (in most cases) enabling the MM/MW to break theirs. There is a societal agreement that we generally look out for our fellow human beings - if you saw someone being mugged, that wouldn't be your responsibility either, but you'd try to help, right?

I do think people can be incredibly naïve about how many people have affairs. Monogamy is really not a natural state for most people and the statistics on affairs bear that out.

I've been in 5 LTRs in my life and in every single one my partner slept with at least one other person behind my back. And in 4 out of 5 of them, I also slept with someone behind my partner's back.

Anyway OP - you seem to be unhappy with what you're doing (otherwise you wouldn't have posted here where you knew people would flame you.) You are almost certainly being lied to, and you're enabling this man to destabilise his family instead of being honest with his wife and either working out their problems or moving on. (And it's my guess that the problem is more "I want to have sex with multiple people" rather than she never "gives" him sex. I used to have sex with my ex every day in a variety of interesting ways - didn't stop him looking elsewhere for it, and taking it wherever he found it.)

Vivacia · 21/05/2015 14:48

I was thinking similar to pocket. I can see the misogyny at play, and I don't go in for the "I'm a girls' girl" thing. However, that doesn't mean I am absolved of responsibility for my own behaviour.

IrianofWay · 21/05/2015 14:57

"I really hate this because it is a real symptom of patriarchal society. It's about time women started blaming men 100% for infidelity and not attacking each other."

On MN there are rarely any unfaithful men posting. I suspect if there was they'd get an equal if not greater pasting. And as for OW in active affairs, I don't think there is anything wrong with telling people that they are involved in something hurtful.

In this case the moral argument is irrelevant as the OP is clearly very unhappy so should end it for her own sake.

avantbard · 21/05/2015 15:17

I'm sitting her utterly infuriated.

"So what if you're only having sex 3/4 times a year"

So what? It's a key part of a relationship. You can't cherry pick the things you want - commitment, affection, etc - and drop the things you don't.

If a woman stopped having sex with me without making clear attempts to address the problem, then I'd consider our relationship an open one.

MorrisZapp · 21/05/2015 15:22

What a disgusting post avantbard.

Vivacia · 21/05/2015 15:23

Infuriated? MN never fails to make me grateful for my DP. We went without sex for months after the birth of DS2. Thank god he didn't have the attitude of me getting what I deserved by going off cheating behind my back.

CactusAnnie · 21/05/2015 15:26

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CactusAnnie · 21/05/2015 15:29

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MorrisZapp · 21/05/2015 15:32

Please take that back. I have never said that women should have sex with their husbands, ever. Upthread I said I hardly ever have sex with my own.

Kindly do not group me in with disgusting posters like avantbard.

MorrisZapp · 21/05/2015 15:34

I don't blame wives for husbands who cheat. I don't blame OW for husbands who cheat.

I blame the husband. The man. And yes this is a feminist position.

CactusAnnie · 21/05/2015 16:02

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CheersMedea · 21/05/2015 16:32

I accept that you don't think women are obligated to have sex with their husbands, and that it is legitimate for men to cheat if they're not getting enough sex, so sorry for that bit.

Yes - you owe me that apology too. I never said that either.

My point is best summed up by pocket's comment
Particularly when you consider that men who shag married women are never asked "How could you do that to another man?"

I'm not saying that OW deserve a prize nor that they are not fairly open to criticism in some cases. What I'm saying is that a culture in which the OW is automatically monstered - not least by other women - is set up by men for their own interests.

The person that should be the subject of vitriolic attack of the type seen on these board is the married person betraying his spouse.

MorrisZapp · 21/05/2015 16:33

Well that's where we differ then. I don't believe that OW are to blame for affairs. I place the blame squarely with the person who is committed elsewhere and who chooses to cheat.

That's not to say OW can do no wrong. I'm sure lots of OW behave in dishonest ways when in an affair. Some of them no doubt are selfish immoral narcissists.

But they don't hold the responsibility for policing male fidelity. Only men themselves can do that.

CheersMedea · 21/05/2015 16:35

^ what MorrisZapp said. I agree.

Fairenuff · 21/05/2015 16:54

Why am I posting? I think I do want to see all... both responses from people who might experienced something similar in one way, or another, as well as all these horrible comment. Hopefully it will be one more thing that will help me change things.

What do you want to change?

glitteryflange · 21/05/2015 17:07

Stop allowing yourself to be used.

Focus on rebuilding your self esteem & self worth/confidence.

You are worth more than this OP

CactusAnnie · 21/05/2015 18:18

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avantbard · 21/05/2015 18:50

Nice straw man CactusAnnie

Women, this is IMPORTANT.

If a man is in a relationship he is no longer allowed to sleep with anyone else. You are the only person he can have sex with. So if you have it just a handful of times per year, and there are no physical (recent birth) or genuine mental reasons (abuse issues, etc) why you can't have sex, then there's an issue to resolve.

It's not a case of "spreading your legs on demand". It's a case of looking for routes forward. In the same way you'd look for a solution if he only gave you cuddles or compliments four times a year.

If you are having sex far less than your husband would like, and you aren't trying to find a middle ground, or ways to get the spark back, or trying to spice things up, then you are neglecting a key part of your marriage/relationship.

ItsRainingInBaltimore · 21/05/2015 18:59

Of course his DW is still sleeping with him - or as you put it, making love to him. You're just a shag to him.

Why do people always say this? Why is it so hard to believe that lots of couples don't have sex anymore? Or have it very rarely? I know loads of people whose lives have ground to an almost total halt after children and it has carried on in that vein for a number of years. I know couples who were almost completely celibate by the time they were 40.

If someone says they have no sex life at home then by all means judge them for looking elsewhere for sex, but don't just assume they are lying.

ItsRainingInBaltimore · 21/05/2015 19:00

I mean their sex lives, obviously, not literally their lives have ground to a halt!

CactusAnnie · 21/05/2015 19:03

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avantbard · 21/05/2015 19:12

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CactusAnnie · 21/05/2015 19:17

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