I am the OW...

[spitefulme]

Long story short...
I am a 38 year old woman, 1 child, separated, I have a fuck buddies relation with a married man.

3 years ago I separated from my husband of 11 years because of his drinking. We had a phase of getting back together, he wanted to start treatment but didn't. Instead, he found himself a mistress and a marriage didn't survive. I used to see my husband as a soulmate and had a number of happy years together, but now I doubt how much real it all was, as he is a person with obvious NPD traits, and even the past with him seems like one big lie now. Sometimes I think that the only good think I got out of this marriage is my beautiful daughter.
Ex is still 'happy' with the OW, 15 years younger than me.

In the meantime I had one serious relationship which died as well, as my partner didn't want to commit because of distance between us and disability of one of his young children.

Despite receiving counselling and taking antidepressants for years now, it seems like I cannot sort out my own head and understand that I need to see my own value first, before I get into any relationship, otherwise it will never be healthy.

I was in very bad place for the last couple of months, I desperately needed someone who would 'confirm' my value, made me feel wanted again. Pathetic, I know.

I threw myself in a string of casual sex relations, I guess I met 4-5 men and I had sex with all of them. Most of them were met online.
One of the men I met is married. The nicest one, the only one who actually doesn't treat me as meat, as fuck, he is genuinely interested in me as a human being. I think this is what attracts me most to him.
He claims that he lives in a sexless marriage.
He loves his wife and his 2 little children, but his wife has very low sex drive and pushes him away whenever he wants to be intimate. He says that she always had very little needs but since children arrived, they have sex 3-4 times a year. He tried to talk to her about it but she finds excuses of being busy with children and says she doesn't really need it. He suggested therapy, going away, babysitter so they could have time together - all she says is no, because she is happy the way it is. He says she trusts him 100% and they always been good friends, so she would never ever think he can cheat. So he decided he just needs to find someone for sex to fill this gap...
I developed friendship with that guy, we met a couple fo times and finally we had sex. It was great, we are very compatible and I could easily say that he is deprived of it. He is a very passionate man and I struggle to imagine that any healthy woman wouldn't be happy to make love to him, which leads me to conclusion that his wife does have issues with her sex drive.

He claims he doesn't want to split with his wife, that he cannot imagine living without his children, but on the other hand he cannot carry on without sex.

I know I should end this and what we do is just disgusting.
The facts are that he cheats on his wife and I am the OW.
On the other hand I kind of 'justify' it by thinking that for both of us it is just sex and a bit of intimacy. I have no intentions of splitting his family, he would never do it anyway, and I would never want it as I know best how it hurts, how much children suffer etc.
The risk of his wife finding out are minimal - we never speak on the phone, just text via kik or email. We don't exchange any dirty pictures, meet once a month maximum. He is normally very devoted to his family and children, it's not like he deprives them of his time, attention, money. We don't exchange any gifts or pay for hotels or trips - it is all very casual and we both lead our independent lives, apart from this short hours of intimacy.
I know it will have to end at some point, and every time I see him, I feel guilty... but then I think that if it wasn't me, it would be someone else... and at least I have no intentions of messing his life up.
Now, why am I writing all this... I guess it is because of guilt. I was always quite strict about being faithful and honest in relationship and in general, never cheated myself, but after that last year, when I was lied to and cheated on by my own husband, and then disappointed in another relationship, it is as if something broke inside me. I just don't feel like it's worth being honest, being the good one anymore. All the genuine and honest people around me end up lonely or used, and the ones who think of themselves are just better off... like my ex and his mistress, like so many other people I know.
I am aware of the fact that my self esteem is crushed now, that probably the only reason I am sleeping with a married man is the fact that I like the attention he gives me. I like him a lot as a person and obviously worry that I can develop feeling at some point, which will leave me in even deeper hole than now.
I would like to have a normal loving relationship but I kind of lost faith in it. It's like I have already had my bit of love with ex husband and there is nothing left for me in this life, apart from being a shag for a man, who still loves someone else.
Why am I writing all this... I think I just need someone to talk some sense into me. That arrangement leads nowewhere, I do not want to harm anybody but I am, in a way, doing this... I know affairs are wrong, that nobody deserves to be cheated on... but still I am in it. My counselor said that I do not harm anyone because I am single and I do not cheat, it's him... but still I do feel guilty.
How to change it? How to come back to the values I used to believe in, after having them rubbed in my face by ex and after doing what I did?

He's lying to his wife and he's probably lying to you.
If his wife is his best friend and he goes behind her back like that think on how he treats people he's not bothered about?

He's giving you the world's saddest song on the world's smallest violin.
'Poor me my wife won't sleep with me enough.' 'Poor me she puts the children first' 'poor me I am not the only thing she has and spends all day worshipping'
Quite frankly you have enough of your own problems without dealing with anyone else's.
Change counseller, review any meds, or perhaps ask for them. Stop sleeping with this man. If you stop shagging him he wont contact you. That is all you are to him. He will just find someone else.

You need to start liking yourself and treating yourself with more respect

Also, he is no "best friend" to his wife.

But OP what is it that you are actually asking? What is it that you want advice on?

You are single at the moment, right? So are you asking whether you should stop having occasional sex with this man and instead have it with someone else (or not at all), or what?

What she said was that I am not doing the cheating bit, it's him, but obviously it is not right what I am doing

This is what I hate about Marriage Councillors, they're always so quick to absolve the OW (or OM) of any responsibility in the breakup of a marriage.

I think this advice is outdated.

spitefulme, where's your husband?

My ex lives in the same city but I hardly ever see him.
I went NC after he 'chose' his OW over our family.
I might see him once or twice a month, when he picks up our daughter, he is not involved enough in her upbringing.
It still hurts so much... he refused to participate in any attempt of fixing our relationship. No treatment, no counselling, nothing... I was willing to forgive him all, if only he wanted to try, as I know he is just sick an never addressed his issues... bit nothing I did was good enough.
When I see him now - all I feel is deep disappointment, that he gave up all we had just because it was easier... plus I feel sorry a bit for him. Not even angry, apart from moments when I see/hear about his happy 'new' life through social media or common friends. I deleted my own social media accounts and moved houses to stay away from him.
It all left me devastated... and yet I am kind of doing the same to someone else. What is wrong with me?
I am not getting angry with people who spit on me here. I know I deserve all the nasty comments. I just wanted to explain how it all looks from my point of view.
Why am I posting? I think I do want to see all... both responses from people who might experienced something similar in one way, or another, as well as all these horrible comment. Hopefully it will be one more thing that will help me change things.

Thing is I don't think you need anyone to push you

I think your using that to avoid doing the right thing - waiting for that one push that will force you to end this and start doing helpful things for yourself to heal. It's just procrastination.

If anyone was able to push you into doing it if would be your own conscience.

What are you going to DO to change things ?

it's one thing to come on here for a moan and a vent, but that's just talk

what actions are you going to take ?

I think I do want to see all... both responses from people who might experienced something similar in one way, or another

These boards are full of women posting about being in this situation, mostly in the position of your FB's wife. I don't know how you and he can do this to her. How dare you?

I meant that rather more as in, how do you wake up in a morning and deliberately do that.

Personally I think it's outdated advice to blame OW for marriage breakup. its not the fifties any more, we mostly expect men to take full responsibility for their commitments now.

Yes morris, the husband is responsible for the breakdown of his marriage through his behaviour. But what does it say about a person who will an intimate relationship with somebody who has a family? Because to me it says they are an untrustworthy and immoral and are to be avoided at all costs.

How to change it? How to come back to the values I used to believe in

You asked this question. The answer is that first you need to stop seeing this MM. As long as you are tied up with him you are going to feel guilt and shame. You can't build a sound and positive future on those foundations.

End it. Until you do you won't be able to heal.

Once he is gone, please don't immediately go looking for another relationship to validate yourself. You need to focus on you as an individual, what will it take to remind you that you are essentially a good person, worthy of love and respect. I suggest you keep going with the counselling with the aim of building up your self-esteem.

I had a fling with a MM years ago. I was 25, I met him on Guardian Soulmates. He led me to believe he was single and I was a bit naïve and didn't see the obvious red flags that signalled he was probably married. When I finally put 2 and 2 together and asked him he spouted all the usual bullshit about his wife not understanding him, wife not wanting sex etc.

So, obviously I ended it because I couldn't bear the thought of being complicit in his deceit and I was hugely offended that he had lied and used me.

The key point I want to make to you though OP is that although he was charming and listened to me and was interested in my life and treated me beautifully, I was still a piece of meat to him. All he wanted was sex on the side when it suited him. This is EXACTLY what this guy is doing to you, no matter what you might think you are essentially a receptacle for his cock, he is just cleverer than the other men you have encountered in that he makes you feel special.

You need to get angry because (a) the selfish bastard is having his cake and eating it (b) he is using you and (c) he is stopping you from living your life as you want to, free from guilt and shame and with the strong values you say you have lost.

Sorry that was long but I can't stress enough that you really need to ditch this fucker before he drags you down even further.

It just says to me that they are a human like any other. I wouldn't advise anybody to get involved with a married person, but shit happens. I'm sure many of the people who cheat are immoral idiots, others will be kind and loving and normal.

I'm not some kind of OW support worker - I have no axe to grind. I just find the level of hatred towards them disproportionate given that it's the cheating husbands who are to blame. I know it's not a popular view and I don't expect to change anybody's mind.

I wouldn't advise anybody to get involved with a married person, but shit happens.

Are you going to go on to Ophelia's thread and say that? On to Tomato's thread and say that? It's so callous and and shows a complete lack of taking responsibility for your own actions.

I just find the level of hatred towards them disproportionate given that it's the cheating husbands who are to blame.

I agree, some posters have very strong reactions. But I think that most people just tend to lose patience very, very quickly when the OW posting is attention-seeking, feeling sorry for herself and showing no sense of remorse or taking responsibility.

Some stuff is black and white. This being one. You don't shag married people. Married people don't cheat.

You can stop you just don't want to and would rather try and justify it by blaming wife for lack of sex.

This thread isn't anything but your very own pity party by the sounds of it.

You won't do your self esteem any good by getting in to bed with him. Can't you see that?

Life is complicated. Maybe there are some women out there who think, I feel like ruining another woman's life, so I think I'll shag her husband. That would be a horrible thing to do.

But generally I imagine that OWs have a completely different perspective, based upon what they know of the MM.

I'm not callous, if somebody's marriage has broken down then of course I wouldn't say shit happens. I just mean that lives are messy, people don't always make the best choices for myriad reasons, and decent people can do very ill advised things.

Re; 'If it wasn't me it would be someone else'

OP console yourself that every single woman your own husband screwed was probably telling herself exactly that too... make it better? No?

You've been thro it yourself and now you are putting another woman and her children thro the exact same thing.

Make sure you have regular STI checks if you are having sex with this man who only has sex once a month with you, you'll be amazed how likely it is that you are not in fact his only fuck buddy.

If a cheating husband came on MN seeking pity because he couldn't keep it in his pants and his wife did not understand him..... I'm pretty sure MN would rip him to shreds in seconds.

The OP is getting the response as she's the one posting.

I've posted this before but if my husband was unfaithful to me, I'd hope I'd have the common sense and dignity to blame only him.

To me attacking OW (or even suggesting that an OW is a bad person or doing something wrong in this situation) is part of a male dominant culture. Men have managed to organise society so that when they fuck around, women still blame each other and attack each other. It amazes me how more women don't see this and rebel against it.

The logical analysis is:
a married man has made a promise of fidelity to his wife.
that is his responsibility and his alone.
barring date rape drugs or hostage taking, in the normal course of things, if that man chooses to sleep with another woman it is his choice alone. He is an adult man.
the other woman (whilst not acting in a way that supports family values) owes nothing - yes that's right - nothing to the wife. There may be some exceptions to that (eg. a best friend or a sister) but in most cases it's a stranger. She didn't take the vows and in one sense what business is it of hers whether an adult man in control of himself chooses to honour his vows or not if she wants to sleep with him.

On the other hand, some how society has got to a point where it seems to be accepted that:
men are so driven by sexual urges that it is women's responsibility to band together to prevent this.
if a married man has an affair, the OW is (if not to blame) at least as culpable as him.
it's all this cultural girls club of "I'd never do that to another woman". It's the man that has done it. A single woman choosing to be an OW has no responsibility in my view.

I really hate this because it is a real symptom of patriarchal society. It's about time women started blaming men 100% for infidelity and not attacking each other.

I don't buy it that the OW is blameless.
The OP has even stated that she dated a number of single men. When she realized that one of them on this dating forum was Married, she should have backed off.
It's what a decent person would do.

You say that men are manipulating and controlling women, but why can't women 'look out for each other'.
Why would a woman want to cause upset to another woman?

A single woman choosing to be an OW has no responsibility in my view

You see, I wouldn't knowingly set out to disrupt and destroy children's lives and their family home.
And it's got nothing to do with 'Oh well, it's not as if I know them, so it doesn't matter'.

I DO have a sense of responsibility. Thank God

CheersMedea, I could not agree more. You have summed it up precisely.

It's outdated misogyny, no more no less.