Affair Part 5 - fab phee kicks arse wearing her skinny jeans

[OpheliaRose]

Many you will have read my threads 1 2 3 4

A month ago I discovered my Husband had been having an affair with a girl from his work. I thought it was one of the most painful moments of my life but the subsequent day where far more painful when the full extent of his betrayal was exposed to me and he has shown no remorse or sorrow over the loss of our marriage in fact he has left me for the OW

I have started divorce procedures on the grounds of adultery each day is proving a struggle but I am getting through it with the help of all of you.

All I want when this is over is for me and my Twins to be happy. We all deserve so much better than him

I though about the consequences to the twins Friends.
And maybe there is a way to awakening them to the reality without risking the well being of the twins:
when he raises this at mediation, how about proposing him to have them on a trial for a week (after the 6 months probation period) together with the WF's child without any relative help' as per the conditions abroad - before going with them abroad- no resort to care all day long for them; stress of the mornings before going to work; stress in the evening after a day at work ? This should also include a pre-arrangement contract:
if they are too unsettled and too unhappy then they must be returned ASAP to their mum. The twins and their MUM will determine whether they are unsettled and unhappy. And I think that it is OK to agree for a minimum of two days with him and WF- all of course accompanied by some video/SKYPE supervision/communication- to support you if you want them to be returned ASAP.
Phee is there in your area some support group for twins parent and for divorced mums as well? maybe you should join in and pick up some ideas of how to proceed in custody/vacations and in mediation?
Good Luck! All the of the world can't express how much I feel hurt on your behalf. So much injustice! But please do have faith. You will rebuild your life. Be strong at mediation: do not let him project you as an unreasonable vindictive woman. They are wrong. Nothing can absolve their behavior (dishonesty until DD and callousness since then- they have been on their side of the fence since the start and they erected this fence on your heart where it hurts you most: your twins). And do have faith in you and your twins and your future! You will be happy again, maybe even happier because your happiness will not depend anymore on his good wills but on your own strength, morals and good nature!

Have a nice day! Sorry but all I can offer you is some virtual

If your DT do not have passports already then consider getting them ones so you can keep hold of them.

I wouldn't put it past him and WF to try some stupid stunt where they get them passports and take them abroad.

He's behaving as if you've been separated years, not weeks and almost doesn't seem to realise how young his children are.

God, if it weren't for the fact it would probably traumatise your twins I'd let him. Let him and her have a week of broken sleep and early mornings, that alone is enough to make even the most devoted couples want to murder one another sometimes. Never mind the constant calls for mummy.

I'm sorry he's pushing so hard for you to just suck it up and let him have his happy ending, use your mediation session wisely as previous posters have said I wouldn't by shy about sharing as many of the details as you can. If only to show the mediator that he clearly does not have your sons welfare and wellbeing as his number one priority. Xx

I wouldn't quite the 6 months thing too much as its only a recommendation.
I would stress to the mediator the fact thst within days of you finding out about their affair, he has chated gaily about her and passed in little chindcare tips as if she is an old friend.
He has showed no compassion or discretion for your feelings as one would normally expect.
Illustrated nicely by the fact that just 6 weeks after yiur split, before any proceedings, maintainence or property has been decided, he has akready suggested taking your two small children, who were previously in your care the majority of the time, on a holiday not only away from you but with TWO total strangers.
Totally different from a few days and nights away.
To be honest phee Id fight dirty if necessary.
They can book all the holidays they like but you don't have to hand them over when it's time to leave.
Id go away the day before.
Yes it might breech any arrangements but what's the worse that can happen, he can take u to court and get an order in place.
I totally agree that you are so much better without this nasty little prick in your life, what a hideous little runt he sounds.

Id be so tempted in s few weeks to tell him you've hooked up with some blond you met in a club and that you were planning for him to stay over most nights and had a big family holiday booked for next week

Bloke not blond

Lol at the thought of Phee on the hunt (specifically) for a blond!!!!

I definitely would not allow a holiday with WF in October. I would also keep hold of passports and stand in their way however possible .

Stay strong Phee.

My 4 yr old slept at nanny and grand dads yesterday and Friday.
She was wailing for me last night as sges only ever done one night before.
Too young and too soon that's that.
He can't do it without your permission, so nope.

Good morning Fab Phee, checking in to see how you're doing and horrified at this latest manifestation you STBEBastard's egocentricity.
I agree that you should not reply to this latest email, and deal with it in mediation. If you do reply, or if he harasses you for an answer, just say no. You are not being unreasonable, whatever he tries to make you think, he is the unreasonable one.
Fearless, Laurie and Browers' posts are all spot on, I think, I would advise you to take their advice Could I also suggest that not only do you practice in front of a mirror to prepare for the mediation session, but also, that you ask one of your family or your friends to role-play with you and take the part of STBEBastard at his most charming and worst so that you feel confident you will be able to tackle whatever he throws at you?
I hope you are feeling better, I am so sorry for all this crap this shit is throwing at you and your twins.

Hi Phee and PP....I too felt like retching when I read the latest development. When my dd marraige broke up, we as a family wanted it all to be amicable/civilised for the sake of the 2dc re access. As my dh said "in 20yrs time none of this is going to matter, the children will only have memories of adults being polite to each other, and eventually despite all the emotions it'll become normal". We all thought what an excellent way to navigate dd and dgc thro the fog of the affair/separation/divorce.

Fast forward 14yrs. Dgc 15 & 17. Both have gone NC with their dad and new family of 4 step siblings. ( Yeah, regular little bunnies. Responsible as a human for creating 6 new lives)). Both are in counselling!! DD is in counselling due to the mental anguish her dc feel. What a mess, but there is light at the end of the tunnel. As pp suggested phee. Time to play the long game. We all agree with hindsight it might have been better to have had teeth, and used them. Still hindsight and all is a wonderful thing.

There are a lot of people mentioning the 6 months period but it doesn't sound like it's an official guidance so you can appeal to his father side with that but I am not sure a court will accept it. If you are going to start playing hard I would have a meeting with a lawyer to get some idea what you will be entitled to if he decides to take it to court. It would be good to take somebody like your brother or father with you so they can remember or write down answers to your questions. Questions like: can he force the sale of your family home, what will you be entitled to after the house is sold, can he get 50:50 custody with such young children, if he/you want(s) to take them abroad does the other parent need to give them permission etc. One thing to remember is you won't get your representation subsidised as divorce proceedings are now exempt. So how are you going to finance it? You probably don't feel like it but you need to get practical.

6 months… actually if you look again at the research that Onehand posted:

Extra care needs to be taken with the nature of separation from a primary attachment figure during the first 2-3 years. Well-managed, brief separations are indicated in the first 2-3 years, growing in duration through the fourth and fifth years

(this suggests you should be waiting a year at least - they are 2, nearly 3 - before thinking about more overnights).

I think Phee's solicitor suggested she write a fair proposal for contact because it won't wash with a court if there's not a welfare risk. I think the point of mediation is to appeal to his father to think of the wellbeing of the children, referencing research suggesting they are too young and this is too soon.

The other parent does need to give permission to take them abroad.

04 the problem with your plan is that it aims to give the ex a wake-up call and to encourage WF to be mean to the twins. Decisions can not be made on this basis, but in the best interests of the children.

Fearless, Laurie and Browers' posts are all spot on, I think, I would advise you to take their advice

This.

I think a father would be considered a primary attachment figure laurief.

Please listen to Laurie about the 6 months thing.

She is absolutely right - Ophelia I mentioned this on your first thread - but I will say it again for the benefit of other posters who are querying it - there is a LOT of evidence that being exposed to a parents new partner earlier than that , can create emotional difficulties in later life. Yes the DC may seem fine now, yes other posters children may seem fine - but it hits people in their adulthood and does affect their own ability to handle relationships with others with family and loved ones.
I am a professional in mental health and did NOT allow my own DC to have contact with Hs OW for this reason.
I went to great lengths to ensure my DC did not meet OW and I am so glad and relieved I did this.
It protected my DC from the types of feelings and thoughts that children in these situations often experience as they get older .
I don't want to go into that here as you are hurting enough Phee.
Thinking of you and sending hugs.
Mediation can be very painful - please prepare for this and ask your mum and dad to be around the day of your first session so that you have someone to hug you and possibly look after the twins.
Take one day at a time my lovely - not even one day at a time sometimes- 1 hour at a time and look no further than that. X

Saint V the aim of my plan is to see what will happen to the twins if they are with them;
a- the dreaded potential* outcome: if it is not good for them (they will resent the twins as a hassle and the WF might become mean to them);
the rational for risking this outcome: it is better to catch it on time and firmly refuse long stays just with them (e.g. holidays abroad; 50 50 custody) on good grounds, and they will not be able to accuse anymore Phee of being unreasonable or vindictive in courts or whatever: this is the awakening I want. It is not a picnic life to be with twins. The sooner they realize it the better. Besides any damage to the kids will be limited because of the Agreement preceding the experience.
b- the still slightly potential outcome that he and WF will cope with the twins- despite the work stress etc. I did not mention this outcome because although it is painful, Phee will certainly be able to live with it because she puts her kids best interests before anything else. This is why I expanded on the bad dreaded scenario only. Not to catch them but to limit any potential damages it might have on the kids and to allow to Phee to fight for her kids without being branded as unreasonable or vindictive. BTW I proposed this deal only after the advised probation period - be it 6 months or a year- and only as a trial not as a final agreement re-custody.
Phee I hope you are not upset that we are freely discussing your problems. I have no experience in this situation. I just say what I think. What I think might be completely revolting and I am more than happy when wise women with experience are revolted by it.

And Ophelia he won't have a leg to stand on in mediation if you maintain consistently that your ultimate goal is to act in the best interests if your children.
Their psychological safety and wellbeing is paramount and there is no mediator/judge in this land that would agree that taking them on holiday with OW and her child would be good for them.

Ultimately they at some point will consider that daddy left their family to join another family because they weren't good enough, or because he didn't love them enough.
They will hurt at you being left alone. They will feel in conflict, and feel abandoned. Maybe not now because they are too little - but they WILL reflect.
Go and shove that up his arse and ask him if he still thinks it's a good idea.

Tell the mediator that you agree DTs need to see their father and that you see how important it is.

The DTs do not NEED to see OW, they do not NEED to see her child.

Please do not rely so much in "guidelines" - it's all under and about the best interests of the DC.

I have been through mediation Phee and tackled head on the issue of meeting OW - which did not happen- so I can empathise and offer real life experience as can many of the other wise and wonderful ladies on here.

I am soooo angry Phee.

It honestly wouldn't surprise me if when Phee says No to the holiday because it's too long for them to be away from you, he suggests you and OW's ex come as well so you can all be one big happy family Honestly, nothing this sack of shit does can surprise me any more.

mslizzy - In the context of this research, Phee is the "primary attachment figure" and the father is the "second parent." This is not a mother/father thing. Phee has been the SAHP with the children since they were born. The father has worked full time and then moved out of the family home. It recommends Time spent with the second parent should enable maintenance of comfortable familiarity, and growing attachment security. Frequency of these visits should not create discontinuity or fragmentation for the young infant within their primary attachment relationship…

Phee has said all along that he is their father and she wants them to have a good relationship but is being asked to consider holidays away without her already and also had it suggested that the children meet OW on an overnight at the grandparents followed by a family Sunday lunch after 3 weeks…

What a truly awful man your H is.
Every time I believe these people can go no lower they astound me with another corker!
No. That is your answer. No, it is entirely unsuitable. The twins have seen DH 3-4 times over the past 6 weeks. There is no way to know how the plans for contact will pan out. There is no way to say how they will adjust to their new way of life with separated parents. There is no way a booking can be made for 4 months time on the assumption that they will 'be fine' with him, with her, without you, going abroad etc. I think, this early in separation proceedings, the answer is a perfectly rational and reasonable no.
I would ignore this email, print and take it to mediation. Part of my negotiation would be that no extended or foreign holidays be taken by either parent for a minimum of 12 months post separation. That gives you a holiday next Easter to plan!!

Laurie is wise Phee, listen to her advice

HI Phee,

I second Laurierfs suggestion re writing a letter. This will help you to articulate your points in a clear manner and also give you confidence in getting your points across.

Please remember this:

ATTACK IS THE BEST FORM OF DEFENCE!

If you allow the H to start talking before you, he will get his points across and will quickly get the upper hand, putting you on the defence, anything you say may appear unreasonable and may quickly put you on the back footing. He will start the "nodding the head" in disagreement and unnerve you.

It is of vital importance that you get in there first. Please remember this.
If you get your spoke in first ( re to Laurierf statement). You will have the upper hand.

Stating that is completely unacceptable to have the DTs meeting the OW for at least 6 months. Go down the non-negotiation route on this. Putting your argument forward. Only 6 weeks since discovery, they are not thinking straight, you have serious concerns and feel you must put the DTs interest above all else. Make the suggestion of taking the DTs on holiday absolutely ludicrous, unbelievable. ( Make eye contact with the mediator at this point, seeking understanding of this ridiculous suggestion.)This will take him completely unaware and you have set the tone of the meeting. Your use of language is very important, Try not to get emotional ( you will appear weak and unreasonable). By being very strong and direct you can dictate the whole tone and course of the meeting.

Please remember : ATTACK IS THE BEST FORM OF DEFENCE.

Good Luck.

You don't even need to suggest a time, not meeting OW and her child for the foreseeable future is fine. As has been said, is completely unnecessary that they meet at this time or in the foreseeable future.
Your only interest is in what is best for the DT's.

That is true actually. I am sure you can make it clear that any eagerness on his part to introduce the OW and the DT is born out of his wish to have everything convenient and easy for him so that he can have maximum time with OW, rather than him putting thier needs first by spending 1:2 time with them and easing them through the separation and transition.