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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Affair Part 5 - fab phee kicks arse wearing her skinny jeans

999 replies

OpheliaRose · 19/05/2015 21:02

Many you will have read my threads 1 2 3 4

A month ago I discovered my Husband had been having an affair with a girl from his work. I thought it was one of the most painful moments of my life but the subsequent day where far more painful when the full extent of his betrayal was exposed to me and he has shown no remorse or sorrow over the loss of our marriage in fact he has left me for the OW

I have started divorce procedures on the grounds of adultery each day is proving a struggle but I am getting through it with the help of all of you.

All I want when this is over is for me and my Twins to be happy. We all deserve so much better than him

OP posts:
Mama1980 · 30/05/2015 08:01

X post there glad to hear your feeling better. Brew

HexBramble · 30/05/2015 15:29

Phee, I really feel for you being poorly on top of everything. Make sure you drink lots of fluids.

How do you feel about what's been suggested re mediation?
Do you think you should write stuff down and start practicing your phrases? I do agree that your H has A Plan and that he's pretty determined to get his own way (he sounds like a spoilt man-child) so you MUST be prepared, my lovely. You must.

Flowers and healing thoughts.

MaMaof04 · 30/05/2015 16:32

Phee Love! I have been thinking about you and reading your thread yesterday and today. I wrote nothing because I am not familiar with this kind of situation. I know for sure that some big wigs in the Parliament and in Bruxelles are busy writing laws, guidance and regulations - (such as the 50 50 custody relatively new one)- that might not always be the best for the kids health.
laurief and bjrce have marvelously provided you with key points to think about and raise at mediation. Maybe you can prepare a bullet list but do not post it here even if the wise women here might help you expand it and sharpen your arguments. Better to MPs it for help. Here are the reasons:
I think that he is discussing the kids a lot with WF and she is advising him (she is experienced in this subject) a lot. If my understanding is correct she is not on a 50 50 custody. So if you think that she might be lurking on MN you might want to MP this list to the ladies here who have experience in custody or are just wise and they will privately help you- out of any preying eye.
As per Laurief post, when you meet the intermediaries, you

must definitely raise the missed opportunity of higher earnings by staying at home for a relatively long time (with his blessing) and because if you ever go back to work it will be on a part time basis and this might repercussions on practically all your working life. Big Hugs. Good Luck! Flowers Flowers

CaveMum · 30/05/2015 18:09

You can always repost in "the other place" under a different name if you want to avoid the risk that someone could be reading these threads.

Original poster
OpheliaRose · 30/05/2015 21:07

Thanks for all your support.

I've got a tough situation ... H has emailed me to say he OW and her child are planning a holiday in October he would like to take twins as well as he feels by then they should have met OW so it would be ok. He is asking if I see an issue with it but phrasing it in a way that I feel will make me sound Very unreasonable of I say yes.

OP posts:
CitySnicker · 30/05/2015 21:10

Tell them it would depend on how the kids receive her so they should look to book a last minute deal either way.

bjrce · 30/05/2015 21:12

Don't reply,

At least you know about this before the mediation, get your head together and think about what you plan to say.
Don't get upset.

HootyMcTooty · 30/05/2015 21:13

Is this something you could handle during mediation?

I think it's one thing agreeing to let them meet OW, quite another to agree to a holiday for a week or two. That's not being unreasonable.

Aranan · 30/05/2015 21:24

This guy beggars belief. Fab Phee, he's making this so hard for you. I agree that you owe him no immediate reply, perhaps wait until mediation and seek (more) legal advice? Surely October is too soon to be away from you in a strange place for any length of time?

bjrce · 30/05/2015 21:33

I have to say, I really wonder about the mindset of this OW.

I mean who in their right mind, after just hooking up with a MM and him just after leaving his W and DC about to go through a divorce, would actually think at this early stage, that it is in any way acceptable to start planning for a holiday in October with her child.
I have known OW at my workplace and this is something that I know, not even them would have contemplated.
The whole thing just doesn't sit right. It actually disturbs me.

glintwithpersperation · 30/05/2015 21:50

What the fuck is wrong with these people? I cannot believe how anyone could be so thoughtless and disrespectful. I am aghast at their complete lack of insight. I would not respond at all

Mama1980 · 30/05/2015 21:51

My advice would be not to reply but to wait until mediation. There is so much to be agreed before you can even think of this. Scheduling, introduction of ow very gradually.....I would ignore for now and speak to your shl about how you would stand if you didn't want the holiday to go ahead.
Focus on mediation, engaging with him outside this (except when absolutely necessary) can only cause you distress.
I'm so sorry I can't imagine how much this hurts.
Have you decided on a rough idea of how you want to proceed? I find lists invaluable especially in emotional meetings such as mediation they help keep you focused when you want to run away crying. Making one might help order your thoughts.
Hope you can get some sleep tonight.

Original poster
OpheliaRose · 30/05/2015 21:51

Well apparently they are in love and happy together both having realised their true feelings so i imagine she's building a new happy family life with him at my expense

OP posts:
laurierf · 30/05/2015 21:58

This should definitely be dealt with at mediation. At which point you stress again, in front of the third party, that it has only been 6 weeks since your lives have been turned upside down without warning as a result of his affair. You want to wait a minimum of 6 months before introducing further irreversible changes into their lives (i.e. new living arrangements and new people in their lives). The idea that you would be agreeing to your very young children going away for a week without you and with someone you don't know is not reasonable. It has only been 6 weeks. He cannot be asking you to make this decision. It does not matter how he has phrased his email - there is NO WAY you could be seen as being unreasonable to say that this is absolutely not something you can agree to at this stage. Research suggests they should not even be meeting OW before October, let alone going away for a week without you but with her. This is not something that should be hurried and, if this is a permanent change for life, there is no need to hurry it.

LondonRocks · 30/05/2015 21:58

^^agree. It's beyond callous. I'm flabbergasted.

BalloonSlayer · 30/05/2015 22:01

Well . . . it has given you the perfect opportunity for you to bring this up in mediation.

You could start by saying - to the mediator:

"One of the things I wish to discuss is the recommended time to elapse before children are introduced to new partners. Every source I have consulted says 6 months, but ExH is constantly pushing for sooner. For example he has asked me - aside [perfectly politely] haven't you twatbag? - if the twins can go away on holiday with him and OW in October. By then we would have been split up for only just six months, but he says - aside [perfectly politely] didn't you twatbag? - that they would have met OW by then. I am really confused as, as far as I am aware, six months is the point at which they might be sensitively and delicately introduced to a new partner, not going away on holiday with them. Can you give us some advice as to what should be happening for the best interest of the twins?"

LondonRocks · 30/05/2015 22:01

He's DISGUSTING.

Phee, you're well away from this selfish snake. He's literally incredible.

Sod his demands. The brass neck of him! Angry

BalloonSlayer · 30/05/2015 22:02

x post with much more eloquent laurie. Smile

Ubik1 · 30/05/2015 22:11

Don't reply.

Save it. Get your thoughts clear. - talk it through with your friend/family.

You don't have to be 'reasonable,' you don't have to be the 'good girl,' god knows OW isn't playing by those rules.

Please, please get some more advice. In mediation don't soft soap him. Put your case with logic and reason, I would suggest writing it all out to form coherent arguments, it will help you get your thoughts in order.

And get legal advice. If he is going to want to take the children abroad then surely you need to get access arrangements formalised.

And he is a piece of work. And so is she. Angry

Jackw · 30/05/2015 22:13

He is pushing much too quickly on this. I agree with posters above that this can be discussed at mediation next week. Please don't feel that you are being unreasonable. He is the unreasonable one to rush all these devastating changes upon you and the children. He needs to back right off and stop being so selfish and heartless. And actually, I think it's time you stopped being so dignified and told him that. I know everyone is saying about holding it together at the mediation meeting but I think it could be a bit of a wake up call for him if you were a sobbing, shaking wreck throughout the whole thing. He seems to have no conception of the damage he has done and continues to inflict upon you.

BrowersBlues · 30/05/2015 22:14

Phee don't be afraid to say no for the reasons Laurie spells out in her post. Start to say the word no more often. You make the decisions about your children. Obviously he will see them but you are the primary carer. If you haven't already mentioned it to your solicitor get a residency order put in place. The name of the legislation may have changed but it means that it is established in law that they live with you.

As for the holiday I would say no and stick to it, no debate. The whole 'reasonable' bubble that they currently live in is a joke and it should not be taken seriously just because they are behaving 'reasonably'.

I am still of the view that they haven't a hope in hell of lasting. They will last while lust is careering around their bodies and they feel like they are Romeo and Juliet. Life is tough with small children, separated families, maintenance payments and all the rest. It isn't the nirvana they currently believe it is.

Practice saying no. You can do it. You are a strong woman and you can say no to anything that you think might be detrimental to your children. You don't have to give them detailed explanations for your reasons. If you believe that there is the potential for anything to distress your children trust your instincts and just say no.

Original poster
OpheliaRose · 30/05/2015 22:18

Thank you Balloon and Laurie and of course everyone else that has offered advice.

I will leave it until mediation. From his wording i can ony assume he plans that children will have met OW and her child by then so will be comfortable with her (enough for a holiday)

I've tried google but it seems to suggest that although its considered bad form there is nothing i can do if H wants to take children on hokiday and include OW especially if its on his contact time. What he does with them is his choice as he is their parent too

OP posts:
ELIANASGRANNY · 30/05/2015 22:26

Once again he fails to see that this is one of the many things that is best sorted out with the help of mediation. And failing that the family courts. Even if you don't wait for the accepted six months - note how October takes you there - and allow WF to meet the twins earlier, they are still not going to be familiar enough with her to spend an entire holiday. Also as it's October, it's probably abroad somewhere, and no way should those babies be that far away from their mummy.

Phee darling, you really do have to stop thinking "unreasonable", and remember all that this pair of totally deluded eejits have done, in the name of their grand passion. Time to chuck some water all over it.

bjrce · 30/05/2015 22:30

Phee,

Those two are so caught up in each other, in their own little world, dreaming about their future, how wonderful everything is going to be and discussing this dream holiday. This has all been done in their delusional world.
I guarantee she hasn't told any of her friends about this holiday plan, anyone with half a brain would say " Are you for fucking real?"

It is your responsibility to protect your DC from these to half-wits!

I find it sad that you thought " he phrased it in such a way as to say I would be unreasonable".
Please do not doubt yourself. You are completely in the right here. Don't let him sidetrack you.

laurierf · 30/05/2015 22:31

Phee - get that legal advice but in the meantime, do NOT let him push you on this.

See here:

www.gov.uk/permission-take-child-abroad

Taking a child abroad without permission is child abduction

You automatically have parental responsibility if you’re the child’s mother, but you still need the permission of anyone else with parental responsibility before you take the child abroad...

You’ll need to apply to a court for permission to take a child abroad if you haven’t got permission from the other people with parental responsibility

You are in a difficult position simply because you have been together since since you were a teenager and he has been the dominant one in your relationship. As Browsers says, you need to start simply saying 'No' to him. You saying no in this instance is entirely reasonable in anyone's eyes because it is TOO SOON FOR THE KIDS! He'll have to apply to the courts to overrule you on this.

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