Husband's affair: moving forwards in the right direction

[tomatoplantproject]

Previous thread here

Story so far:
Dh had a 7 month affair which I discovered 1 month ago just after he ended it.
We had been having problems in our marriage since the start of the affair which I took the blame for
He has moved out, my toddler dd and I are in the family home.
We had started having couples counselling before I discovered the affair which we are now using to deal with the aftermath
So far he wants reconciliation but doesn't seem to be going about it the right way. I am in 2 minds and hope the right course of action emerges over the next few weeks dependant on his behaviour/way he speaks about me.
Unfortunately the counselling tonight, when I had planned to spill out all of my feelings, has been cancelled. We are still meeting though.
With the support of my amazing parents, a handful of close friends, my adorable dd and of course the wonderful wise ladies of mumsnet I am ok.

The reason I want the details is so I can work out what was going on in my life. It's been doing my head in thinking about some really shit moments and then looking back and wondering where his affair fitted in. I desperately want to see the whole picture and not the half picture I currently have.

He has alluded to still speaking with her after I found out - that it was very alluring to have someone being affectionate and loving when I had so wholeheartedly rejected him. I want that detail too.

I don't want there to be any more secrets.

Good Morning Tom! Sorry you did not have a good night sleep.
It is fine to be flexible in human relationships- especially when what is at stake is the dad of your little one.
I am happy you send him to a therapist.
I hope that does not mean that he will neglect joint-counseling. You need all the help you can get from a professional. Have you thought of changing your counselor?
I agree with you it is overall a positive progress.
Good Luck! Hugs to the DD.

I like the joint counsellor we have but it's been impossible not having her when we need her most.

I've asked if she could do some private sessions with us and will hear in the next day or two.

I don't know where to start with finding an alternative. I also think we should be with the same therapist so this person has the whole picture. He has said that the counselling he had before led him down a path he should never have gone down - he needs someone to challenge his thinking rather than reinforce it.

I think the guy is honest in that he keeps on repeating everything will always have to be about him.

He needs help from Tom to be a different person - is just a different way of saying it's all about me me me.

We cross posted Tom.

I've just read your last few posts and I don't know what to say apart from I'm gobsmacked at how it was his counsellor who encouraged him to have his affair by not telling hm not to.

But most of all - his comments about still being in touch with her after you found out. Again it was all about him him him!

I do understand your need to know what was going on in your life. It was a very important part of it for me also. But pls be prepared for the impact it may have on you because There will be things you'll never come to term with.

Xx

Your counsellor has let you down again?!

At the time when you most needed her she hasn't been available for a month.

That is a really poor show.

I think the guy is honest in that he keeps on repeating everything will always have to be about him.

Sadly, this is the truth.

He is broken, he is a rock bottom, he needs your help, he, he, he...

The fact that he didn't even ask what help you needed after months of treating you like shit and cheating on you is extraordinary.

It's like punching someone in the face and then asking them to help you patch up their hand.

You told his sister how you wanted him to behave, you said you wanted abject humility, and he's doing an egomaniac's impression of that.

The only useful thing you got out of that conversation is that now you have his (pathetic) excuse for why he carried on his affair (and appalling, dehumanising treatment of you) after you had found out.

Tom, I kept suggesting a change of counselor because I incorrectly though that she was the same as the one he went to on his own- the one that he claimed reinforced his way of thinking about monogamy. So if it is not that one, and if you like her then by all means do stay with her but ask her to put some efforts into arranging very soon some sessions for you to attend.
You are left to deal with all of it on your own (well almost on your own- I think your parents are great and the WOO and your real friends help a great deal; however they are like big hugs to a hurt child, extremely comforting but the child still needs the doctor to care for his injuries.)
You know I think that : The Monogamy Myth by Peggy Vaughan can be a very clever and challenging book to his twisted thinking.
Good Luck, dear! Have a nice restful day!

Sorry Tom I forgot to say that you'll be able to google private counseling/therapists in your area but make sure they are registered with appropriate professional bodies.

I have various professionals my son sees when we are in the UK with him and this is how I've found them them.

Interesting developments from your conversations last night. It must be so painful to hear.

I don't know what's best moving forward but I do feel he's going in the right direction... for himself. I cringe to hear that he's had all this soul searching and knows he has shit in the nest. He thought he could juggle all the balls and live some kind of fantasy life - a fantasy for him and a pretty miserable life for the three women he dragged into it.

Whatever his reasons, I feel nervous about his intentions. Seven months is a long time to deceive you, and to deceive your DD. I know his words and emotions sound compelling but it doesn't ring true to me.

He needs to fix himself. He needs to decide what he wants from life, from you. Be very careful not to end up being his 'mother', you don't need a big child in your life. If his parents haven't given him the skills to have a loving marriage, you can't bolt them on now. He has to adapt and take them on-board... himself. Your relationship should be respectful, loving and you should feel comfortable together.

All this bleating about being honest and changing is just words. He needs to grow up and decide if he wants a marriage or a crutch for his immaturity and selfishness.

(As for genetics... I have twins and the differences are more gender-based than anything else.)

Finally I am getting some honesty from him - that he has never ever wanted people to see him as frail and has built himself up and up.

Are you sure it's honesty you're getting now?

It looks more like a different tack to get the same thing, when he realised you weren't quite as cowed by him as he previously presumed.

"I was an asshole because I was trying to hide my vulnerability from the world" is an extremely self-indulgent excuse for being an arrogant bully.

It's also the first one they come up with.

You have asked for space, and you only got it when he was trying to punish you with anger.

Other than words, there is still no sign he has any respect for you at all.

Mama, i found that the more I had to read the more it was telling me that no amount of reading would change what my heart was saying. And that was I cannot do this.

I get the distinct impression you are going through the same thing so you keep on reading more in the hope it will change what your heart is telling you.

If I could wish one thing for you it would be that you get rid of your books on the subject and don't read another thing for even 3 month.

Sorry mama, I've wanted to ask for a long time if Islam is involved in your life.

I Sussed out from the very start there was an Arab influence in all Of the goings on and something you once said about the OW enticing your husband back again under the guise of learning about 'the religion' has had me wondering which religion.

I think there's a "Marriages in recovery" thread that Mama is on, where you could ask questions like that.

Maybe keep this thread for tomato? :)

You're all telling me the same thing and I have to say I'm totally thrown.

I think I need to start talking to a professional. Weebirdie thank you for the tips - I will start looking for someone today. I told relate we were in utter crisis and needed our counsellors help and wanted to see her asap so we may get an appointment earlier. I can't wait another 2 weeks though.

I thought the conversation we had last night was a big leap forward. That he had finally acknowledged the extent of his problems and you're now saying that it's just more of the same.

He's said that he prioritised himself and his business over everything that was about me, and he knows he has to change all of that. He said he blamed me for not taking the initiative with things more and also said that when I had taken the initiative he had ruined things because he was so wrapped up in himself.

So in the space of a week he has gone from refusing to show you his phone and not being able to promise not to have another affair to heartbroken?

And then he alludes to having still been in touch with the other woman?

Call me cynical, but sounds like he was carrying on with her, has now been dumped, and realises he has nothing.

Be very very careful.

With all this sobbing and heart searching he's suddenly doing - do you get the overall impression he's concerned mainly about you? Or is most of it focused on him?

It sounds as though he's found out from his sister/family what is required and is all of a sudden displaying exactly what you asked for.

I'd be really quite careful. It looks as though he may be able to swing it so that it is you feeling sorry for him, feeling responsible for this situation he made.

The only thing you've asked him for, since his affair came to light, is space.

And in 7 weeks, he hasn't ever given it to you.

First you had 6 weeks of unjustifiable anger directed at you (and your mother!!! ) whenever he was around.

Now that he's broken up with his girlfriend decided to be belatedly contrite you've had a week of a near constant barrage of communication all about him and what he wants.

Where, in any of this, is the respect for you? For what you need? For what you have asked for?

He has from "I haven't given this any thought, no you can't see my phone, I'll probably do it again" two weeks ago!

To

"I've changed my mind, we need to reconnect now, now, now, you have to help me overcome my tragic (hero's) flaw."

How can you trust a single thing he is saying now?

Why would you, when the past 9 months have shown that he lies to you easily and doesn't respect you as an individual in your own right?

Your two month clock should start ticking the moment he says "Here is the space you've asked for. I am sad to give it to you because I'm afraid I'll lose you, but here it is. I will be over here figuring out how I turned into such an embarrassing wanker. I will do whatever you need, if you ask."

Since this onslaught, are you still protecting yourself and DD in the event of a divorce?

Here is the space you've asked for........

^^ this whole bit by bath time

And it's what he should have said from day 1

Tom I know you are confused and hurting and it's such a relief when you find a bit of hope and who knows it may still work out the way you want it to, but don't accept crumbs, don't jump the first time he shows a glimpse of what you want

I'm going to go against the grain here and say if course it's about him.

Tom needs to understand his actions, needs him to appreciate and acknowledge what he's done, needs him to understand it too so he can change and she could be more sure of him if she did want to try again with the marriage.

As far as he's concerned, she may not have put a foot wrong, or he thinks she thinks she's not put a foot wrong so he needs to make it about him to get through to her.

He's already shown shit poor judgement by having an affair, of course he's going to continue to show shit poor judgement! In a way, I find it reassuring he's not being too slick.

Having been cheated on in the past before DH, I did the pick me dance and was ditched. He's then gone on to be the same with his subsequent relationships so DH knew from the start that infidelity is a deal breaker for me and there'd be no second chances so my post isn't written as defense of him, just possible explaination.

There are far more knowledgeable people on here though but would be interested to see what others thought?

I understand how much you want to believe he's sincere OP, and at the end of the day no-one here knows what's going on in his head.

At the moment it's more words, focused mainly in him, and the crunch is whether he follows up words with actions.

The changes he needs to implement are so fundamental that it will be a very big task. He may start with the best intentions and find it difficult to follow through.

I totally understand why you want to give him a shot, but protect yourself..

I think he is being too slick.

He's acting out what his sister told him was expected, but you can tell it's the same arrogant prick who was nasty to his hurt wife's mother, because he's still showing basic disrespect for his wife and is still full of his own self-importance.

Imagine the arrogance it takes to ask the wife you betrayed, and a week ago told you hadn't given meeting her any thought, to now turn on the "broken man" bit and ask for help dealing with being a cheat?

Where is the actual humility? The kindness?

I would take little consolation from the fact that he is able to be the man you fell in love with it he wants to be.

He very recently used all those moves on his mistress. They weren't gone. He just didn't think you were worth the trouble until some time last week.

I don't know.

The fact that he's got more to tell you that's going to hurt you isn't good.

I presume that means he's been desperately chasing OW for the last few weeks - even while he had the massive hump with you for asking him to leave.

Thank you Bathtime but as others seem quite ok with asking mama questions relating to her posts here, as well as commenting on what she posts, I thought I could do the same.

And I am aware of the thread you've mentioned but my last two posts to mama relate to what she posts here.

Not that I should be having to explain.

Please derail as much as you like.

I'm massively confused. I keep tapping out a response and deleting it. I just want the truth.

I am sorry to pile in but from what you've detailed here, until very recently I don't think he ever quite believed you would dismantle the life you had together as a consequence of him cheating.

Now he's felt you weren't responding as he expected and he's changing tactics.