Husband's affair: moving forwards in the right direction

[tomatoplantproject]

Previous thread here

Story so far:
Dh had a 7 month affair which I discovered 1 month ago just after he ended it.
We had been having problems in our marriage since the start of the affair which I took the blame for
He has moved out, my toddler dd and I are in the family home.
We had started having couples counselling before I discovered the affair which we are now using to deal with the aftermath
So far he wants reconciliation but doesn't seem to be going about it the right way. I am in 2 minds and hope the right course of action emerges over the next few weeks dependant on his behaviour/way he speaks about me.
Unfortunately the counselling tonight, when I had planned to spill out all of my feelings, has been cancelled. We are still meeting though.
With the support of my amazing parents, a handful of close friends, my adorable dd and of course the wonderful wise ladies of mumsnet I am ok.

OP does not but you do

MaMaof04

I'm sorry, but I really don't understand your logic...

Quoting Einstein because he is a highly thought of mathematician, who may have had a "gene" that made him incapable of being faithful, or possibly an upbringing that also led him to be a twat is hardly relevant I feel.

That's like saying that anyone who has been abused, is likely to be an abuser- I strongly believe this is not true!

Is there such a thing as an "unfaithful" gene?

Are there not just people that are more entitled than others- quite simple really.

No I don't MaMa, you've got the wrong end of the stick as usual.

And there's no such thing as a cheating gene.

1- Once I applied logic and it was to state:
that you can't say that it is easy to stay faithful just because one H claimed so
2- I paraphrase my post: as individuals we do vary and so do our partners. We might find relatively easy to do something or display some behavior and yet difficult to do something else or display another behavior. As per Einstein case. Difficulty or easiness to be faithful is relative. About faithfulness: there are more and more indications that genetic make-up and cultural environment are the main factors. There are cultures that think that it is ok for males to have affairs (in past centuries in Europe.) There are people who have the genetic make-up of a cheater and despite a perfect upbringing it is more difficult not impossible- but it involves more struggling for them to be faithful.
Bottom Line:
A PP above asked her husband about faithfulness and he said it is easy. She reported it. What does she want the OP to do with this? To say: OK my H could not keep such an easy request as 'faithfulness' so what is he worth as a H? Oh Lucky is this PP why am I not as lucky?
So to this PP and to OP I say:
Faithfulness is a fundamental vow in marriages but that does not mean that it is necessarily easy to keep it. We must strive to keep it. Lucky the ones for whom it comes easily- regardless of the state of their marriage and of the personality of their spouse. Some others -men as well as women- might have to fight hard to keep it- despite the wonderful spouse they have and despite their happy marriage. These people are not worst than others. They might be wonderful and admirable in many ways (e.g. Einstein). It might be very easy for the husband of this PP to be faithful and still it might be much more difficult for OP's husband- all this regardless of the state of their marriages and regardless of the personality of the PP or the OP (both of them might be equally wonderful) . And no I do not condone cheating. Stop smirking: haha their genes are just the way they are and they cant stop jumping from bed to bed.
Maybe it is time to stop fully depreciating the value of a man/woman because of one foolish episode of adultery in their life and start appreciating the partners who after an affair atone by their acts their sins and work very hard not to fall again.

Genetic genes of unfaithfulness? Please post your research, as I am interested to know?

Obviously we all 'vary' but for the most we go in to a relationship expecting an 'intimate/faithful relationship- otherwise this board would be void! Your posts suggest a (dare I say) religious perspective? Or if not, just scientific-lol

Ive just googled and it would appear there is certain evidence to back up what mama has said.

sorry,

but Im not really convinced as its all a bit iffy diffy.

I think it's up to the individual to figure out why they cheated , there could be a myriad of reasons

Okay, weebirdie, I hear what you say, but if you read the Lundy Bancroft book, that will tell you a lot different.

I have worked with a LOT of abused people over 12 + years and they have fundamentally not been abusers, but have mostly fluffed their life's up! End of!

Thanks Wee. I hope all is well with you!
Lacoba dear:
I said
Faithfulness is a fundamental vow in marriages but that does not mean that it is necessarily easy to keep it.
I do expect faithfulness as much as you do.
I am on the LTB brigade as much as many are here in various cases of adultery- but not in all.
The rest (when I encourage to rebuild the relationship after an affair) you can explain it as you wish: You can laugh at it and you can call it religious or whatever you wish.

Yes Christina and even within articles I've just read on the 'genetics' of it all it's very clear that other factors are also at play and it's not really possible to say I did it because of my genes.

Or perhaps that should be I did it because of my jeans and how they made my bum look to someone else.

Or perhaps that should be I did it because of my jeans and how they made my bum dick look to someone else. I love it Wee.
I agree Chris. Not a single explanation might explain all cases of adultery and even not one specific case of adultery.

The betrayed partner has to decide for her/himself how it is best to proceed after DD and it might take time before he/she will reach the best conclusion for him/her: stay or leave. Regardless of what others might think about her/his decision. It is tough enough to heal from the affair of a partner without having to justify oneself to real or virtual people.

I know the research referred to and the idea that the conclusion of it is that there is a infidelity gene is just bad science.

link

Hello Mama, I'm fine thank you and hope you are also.

Lacoba, Im a bit jaded with the genetic/so called genetic aspect of a lot of things. It stems from my sons autism and the forays into the world of research it's taken me on. A lot of it's a load of tripe and whilst I see how things can be genetic I usually find that many of the studies reporting genetic links to x y or z have lots of 'buts' attached to the research somewhere thus making it a bit iffy diffy.

I'm really not interested in anyone's excuse for an affair. Nothing ever makes it right and very often the excuses make everything a whole lot worse. And I'm not convinced an affair has to mean the death of a marriage - just spare the excuses please.

Re his " connection " with dd, how was he planning to maintain this if he had decided to leave for ow?

Counsellor tomorrow is cancelled.

Have just had a very very very long conversation with him. He's at rock bottom - and has been doing a lot of soul searching. Finally I am getting some honesty from him - that he has never ever wanted people to see him as frail and has built himself up and up. That he compartmentalised his two lives and ignored me in the process. He was shocked that he could be that man who would have an affair. He has asked for my help.

I have said that I need total and utter honesty from him. I told him I am ready to call it a day on our relationship, and if there is to be any hope I need the brutal truth. Warts and all. Some of it I got this evening - that he put me at the bottom of the pile, took me for granted, was too tired from work to either make an effort with me or to appreciate the efforts I made.

I said we also needed to put therapy on the table as an option.

We are meeting again tomorrow night and I have said I want the full facts about their relationship. Times, dates, places.

He has said that he doesn't think I will like him at all after we are done with his honesty because some of it is not at all nice. He has said that even if we make an effort it will be ok for me to walk away at any point. He also said that above everyone and everything he doesn't want to lose me.

His question about dd's nursery came because people ask him about it and he hardly knows what to say. He also said that he feels really uncomfortable at the nursery and reached out because it's my territory and he wanted me to help him.

He said one of the biggest lessons he has learned is that he needs to ask for help and respect people far more - in all areas of his life. He said he always thought he knew best but something I said weeks ago jolted him. I didn't think it was that ground breaking - I had just asked him why he hadn't come to me after meeting her and asked for my help then.

All of this talk about genetics - it's interesting and another day I would want to think about it, but I don't think it helps here - neither of us come from a family of philanderers.

Honesty has been the main focus of our conversation, and this post. He spoke with one friend (who he was very reluctant to tell because he can be brutal with his opinions, and this person matters a lot) who has told him he just needs to start being honest with everyone.

You're all going to say I'm a mug, but the arrogance and self importance wasn't there when I first met him, and it's been well and truly knocked out of him based on the last couple of conversations I have had with him. I have really struggled with matching the man I met and fell in love with and the idiot he has become who could do this. Clearly they are one and the same but the self belief wasn't there in our chat this evening.

One thing is clear - I am dreadful at detaching.

I don't think you're a mug, this is what you've always wanted from him, what he needed to do from the start.

Of course you want to give him a chance and see where it goes.

I hope he's got the mettle to follow up these insights in practice.

Thank you twinkle. You seem to have just started the tears flowing xx

I haven't commented so far but I am in awe of how you are handling this.

I don't think that you are a mug at all, but please be very very careful. I'm not comfortable with the over all theme of him needing your help to overcome his various deficits. That is a journey he should be making alone. It is not your responsibility to help to "fix" him and nor should he be trying to engineer a situation where you bond together in this way.

You are extremely vulnerable at the moment. Please direct these efforts to your own healing process. How dare he burden you with more of his shit.

Only thing I would point out is that you are very near to your own deadline now . It was two months, wasn't it. This will be influencing your decision making, albeit indirectly. And he will be picking up on how you feel.

I'm glad you are getting some honesty at last and no you are not a mug, you have been looking for the man you married

However, it's not up to you to help him, he has to work on himself, it's not your job to save him

You need help, you need support , did he ask how he could help you?

What I will say to you is, think carefully re whether you really want the details of the affair, once said it can't be taken back and it is a whole new level of pain xxxx

And of course it is ok for you to walk away at anytime, how generous of him!

Good morning Tom!
Nice progress but not enough.
As all ladies said and something else:
1- I quote Chris: .., it's not up to you to help him, he has to work on himself, it's not your job to save him
2- I add: he has to understand that he has to work hard to help you heal without expecting you to stay with him. It is not all about him: he has to build up his fragile psyche and becomes honest- sure enough but he has as well to help you heal. Your needs must not be again immolated on his narcissist altar.
3- I quote again Chris: " ...think carefully re whether you really want the details of the affair , once said it can't be taken back and it is a whole new level of pain''

Now you ' a mug'? no way. You are human and mum. And very clever. And very strong. And very generous. And your behavior has been and is still very dignified.

You still have a long way to go and he had a very long and tough way to go before you make up your mind about staying or leaving.
Good Luck- we are all behind you and your DD.

Morning all. I've had a bad nights sleep - not helped by my little dd.

He hasn't asked how he can support me.

I don't want to be his therapist - I think I'm going to tell him he needs to find someone good to help him figure through his issues.

My initial deadline was 2 months but I have extended that to 2 months from him actually starting to work positively which I would class as now.