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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Husband's affair: moving forwards in the right direction

999 replies

tomatoplantproject · 19/05/2015 07:16

Previous thread here

Story so far:
Dh had a 7 month affair which I discovered 1 month ago just after he ended it.
We had been having problems in our marriage since the start of the affair which I took the blame for Hmm
He has moved out, my toddler dd and I are in the family home.
We had started having couples counselling before I discovered the affair which we are now using to deal with the aftermath
So far he wants reconciliation but doesn't seem to be going about it the right way. I am in 2 minds and hope the right course of action emerges over the next few weeks dependant on his behaviour/way he speaks about me.
Unfortunately the counselling tonight, when I had planned to spill out all of my feelings, has been cancelled. We are still meeting though.
With the support of my amazing parents, a handful of close friends, my adorable dd and of course the wonderful wise ladies of mumsnet I am ok.

OP posts:
htf2 · 30/05/2015 10:12

I don't know - when I argue with DH he can be so unreasonable and not see my side at all until he has gone off and thought about it and he comes back completely different. I agree we are talking about much bigger issues and a much longer time frame but it's not impossible surely?

laurierf · 30/05/2015 10:42

I've seen two men behave like this - my friend's H and my FIL. It took months before they stopped the "I'm sorry, I fucked up, I'm only human, I can't spend my life being punished for it, I chose you, let's move on" stage and got to the "shit, I have really, really, really fucked up and I'll do whatever it takes" stage - and in one case a refusal to cut 'non-romantic' contact with OW once he'd moved back in and had to be booted out again before he finally acquiesced and came crawling back on his knees agreeing to all the T&Cs. I don't know about my friend's H but I can say for sure that FIL's counselling seemed to encourage this sort of attitude. Some of the things he would say with regard to his personal responsibility etc. after a session were just… Shock

To be honest I wasn't supportive of either of these women taking their husbands back due to the lack of contrition they'd shown for a significant period. Both my friend and MIL would say they got there in the end and they've come through the other side now, for the better (less arrogant and domineering …Hmm) I don't think I could do it, but I haven't been in their position so I don't know.

BloodontheTracks · 30/05/2015 11:59

Words mean nothing. I can't stress this enough. Essentially what's happened is he's said things that tom has basically outlines to him, almost directly on occasion, are what he should say.

I almost spat out my tea laughing at him offering to show her his phone now. Oh wow! What openness and generosity of spirit! It's like a child handing a parent a school report clearly written in the child's handwriting. Bloody hell.

Okay, here's my take. From having been on both sides of this is the past.

He was shocked Tom kicked him out. He has a serious ego issue and is narcissistic and pumped up on being loved from all directions. He contacted the OW and they resumed an affair that has probably been ongoing off and on throughout the whole time. I suspect she has recently made it clear she doesn't see a real future for them (she may be smart enough to have noticed how he's behaved and his emotional hedging, NEVER a good sign). L:eft in a position of Tom or nothing, of course this man is going to go for Tom, he can't bear to not be loved, and of course a part of him is going to realise that he does have issues, he's not a psychopath. But being momentarily humbled and afraid is not the same as dealing with a whole personality issue, it's not the same as apologising and taking full responsibility for what has happened by RISKING something by being honest with Tom and starting from a place of broken contrition.

I am tempted to talk about things from Tom's point of view, to say, if I were going to take him seriously in ANY WAY he would have to blah blah blah but I think that's a misreading of how to look at it and puts too much pressure on the betrayed who can never know the full truth right now.

Here's what, from HIS point of view should be happening. He should admit to Tom the full story of why he didn't show her his phone. He should even show her correspondence (if she wants) between him and the OW so she can get the full picture. He will have this. All lovers do. He will have forwarded it to some anonymous, secret email address or something, for keeping. He should break that whole thing open to her so she can see his compartmentalised worlds, not just for her, but for HIM, so he can finally exhale and say, look this is who I am, this is who I've been all round, this is the problem we're dealing with, can you possibly think about watching me deal with it as I fight to be better for you?

All this fucking managing, this saying the right thing, this offering a newly deleted phone it's such pointless shallow BOLLOCKS. It's such WORDS. It doesn't challenge the centre of the thing, the risk, the awfulness, what's really hard. He needs to admit and admit properly. Not manage his admittance like showing someone a fucking phone he's already managed the truth of. Sigh.

I dunno, tom. I say this isn't your decision to make. Get on with your life, detach, be strong and beautiful and wild. You know who you are. This man really doesn't want to look at who he is yet.

BathtimeFunkster · 30/05/2015 12:39

Great post, BloodontheTracks.

MaMaof04 · 30/05/2015 16:48

Well the book 'How to heal your husband...' might have done it again: bringing a betrayer who really want to rebuild his marriage but keeps going on about it wrong, to see how to become a "successful healer" - by mainly:
1- understanding that he is not entitled anymore to any 'private' life/space (e.g. telephone)
2- he has to commit himself to be his spouse's healer for the remaining of his life.
(I must admit that my husband understood all this and more on his own and started acting according to 2 and more years before DD. In fact he did not have to work on 1 because I always had accesses to everything- I just did not bother reading/checking etc but of course this dishonesty for years is tough to overcome).
So yes it is a good book- we did not need it but we might need : How not to be just friends (by Shirley Glass I think) and there is another one I might look at.
Good Luck to all of us who are giving out cheating H a second chance!

Tapasfairy · 30/05/2015 16:58

Why would you want him back?
Are you doing it for your DD?
If you were twenty without children and unmarried what would you do?

He does sound very sorry.

Tapasfairy · 30/05/2015 16:58

Doesn't sound sorry.

tomatoplantproject · 30/05/2015 22:07

Still here. Giving myself space - he has tried to talk a couple of times again today. I've spent the day with friends.

Blood - I've been reading and rereading your post. It's really resonating partly because it's going back to the heart of the affair. I've spent so long being angry and hurt about how badly he treated me I've been putting the affair stuff to one side.

My head is all over the place. I wish I could block everything out for a few days just to get some peace.

OP posts:
BloodontheTracks · 30/05/2015 22:47

you can. just step away. focus on you. that's different from wanting everything to go back to how it was before. That is never going to happen. that is gone. his doing. But you can step away and choose not to think about it and to focus on and love yourself and get yourself strong. we are here for you.

laurierf · 30/05/2015 23:25

I think Blood has really hit the nail with this. From the age of your DD, I can tell you are younger than my friend (and obviously much younger than my MIL) and you have many years of happiness ahead of you. For their own reasons, my friend and MIL took the option of a compromised relationship, which they are continually defending to themselves and to others (even when others are not overtly critical… they know it was never truly dealt with).

I think you have to take this chance for happiness which you didn't choose but, given the pain that was forced upon you to get it, you must go for. If he works on himself, as Blood says, opens it all up, and gets to the heart of who he is and why he is that way and what he can do about it, and he still wants to be with the new tom (who is really the old tom before she got forced into being someone she wasn't without understanding why or how), then fine, you can decide from there whether the new tom is open to that. But right now, this is the time for you to step away, focus on you, build a life for you, before you can and should be worrying or thinking about what's going on with him.

Weebirdie · 31/05/2015 02:28

Tom, he wants to talk because he knows you are very vulnerable right now.

Take time away from it all for a while. It's time for you to regroup.

Xx

tomatoplantproject · 31/05/2015 11:46

Ok I'm having a me day.

Been to yoga. It's around the corner - I have to walk 200m max. I meet 2, yes 2, people I know on the way back when I am beetroot red and soaked to the skin in sweat. How?!!!!

Dd up at 5 this morning and so I'm short of sleep. Her curtain rail is now up so later I am going to finish her curtains - she will have blackout blind and blackout curtains on top. There is no way she can now wake up with the sun is there?

And then I'm going to the shops to get the papers, get some nice but healthy food, then I can play some chilled music and get up to speed with the world.

OP posts:
BloodontheTracks · 31/05/2015 11:50

Yes it's not coincendence that cheaters start saying exactly the right thing as the betrayed begin to genuinely pull away and find what little strength they can. It's cause and effect. As we talked about earlier, a partner can FEEL when someone would never leave them. They can also begin to feel when someone actually would, and like a piece of string that connects, if it starts to get too taut and look like it will break, they lean in. It happens in all relationships (remember when someone you were going to dump dumps you? the indignity of it?! Never mind it's what you wanted anyway, it's still humiliating, you still begin to think you want them back maybe....) LOSS is what is feared. That's what's so difficult about a situation like this, the stronger Tom gets, the more attractive she becomes to him, the more he fights for her, the weaker she becomes. And so on and so on. That's why it's about a massive rethink of self and desire and personality and habit, as I outline above. Going back to something incredibly raw and honest and risky on the betrayer's side.
What's hard to see when you're inside it is that everything else, all the words and the gestures and that stuff is part of this subconscious game. This dance of leaning. The game has to get smashed. And to be honest he's kind of failed. And taking him back when he's learned nothing but to parrot will be an extension of the game, his rules in place.

BloodontheTracks · 31/05/2015 11:50

Have a wonderful day, tom!

tomatoplantproject · 31/05/2015 12:14

Thank you blood.

It must be so obvious to you watching what is happening. It's so predictable.

I was talking to mum about the predictability of it all - about the book that mama recommended that there were sections which described how I was feeling to a t. I've also read them the script. It's the fact that he's not some special little fairy who has done something so extraordinary, but he's actually just a type.

And there's me just blindly going through life, trusting, being honest, trying to do the right thing for those that I love and I have had no defences for what has happened. I look back and think that he has been utterly self obsessed and selfish.

I'm bewildered about the fact I went ahead with a general anaesthetic and he didn't put the brakes on - it wasn't just thoughtless because a family member very very very nearly died having a routine procedure and that had happened only a month or two previously.

OP posts:
BloodontheTracks · 31/05/2015 12:19

Please don't worry about predictability. We are all human beings and there is going to be an overlap simply because of how we're made up and the world we all live in. Try and think of it as comforting, in a horrible way, that you're not alone. And that others have got through this. It in no way diminished your pain.

Yes, it's always terrible to think about moments of particular betrayal. Truth is things are well compartmentalised by then. In for a penny in for a pound kind of thing. But yes also people have moral lines that they smart at and see themselves in and make them stop and consider their choices. It's pretty terrible that wasn't one for him.

Think of all these thoughts as a cloak you can take off and then choose to put back on when you are ready. It doesn't mean you're ignoring or brushing under the carpet. It's just that right now it's all too heavy. Spend some time on you, you without him. Remember who that is. And how much we all like her!

tomatoplantproject · 31/05/2015 12:21

Ok that all makes sense. Thank you for being so kind too. Xx

Right I'm going to get on with my day. No more thinking about him.

OP posts:
BathtimeFunkster · 31/05/2015 12:44

Have a great Sunday, tomato.

Hot yoga sounds like a wonderful way to start a Sunday. I hope you enjoyed it. :)

Also, being red and sweaty after yoga doesn't count. Even being really stinky is acceptable. (Or so I tell myself!) Grin

MaMaof04 · 31/05/2015 13:17

Tom you are still hanging around? He is driving you round the bench, isn't he? At least on this bunch some nice lady such as Bloodon are waiting to hug you and provide you with words of wisdom. (Your posts Blondon are so wise and lovely and very much lively as well!).
Have a nice day Tom and all ladies around! Flowers

tomatoplantproject · 31/05/2015 20:06

I'm venting again.

He has had dd all day. I've been doing my thing - hot yoga, healthy lunch and paper and I finished curtains for dd's room and hung them so she is now in a blacked out room. Then I went upstairs and had a sleep.

When I came downstairs they were both asleep on the sofa. He woke up, she was fast asleep. She's gone to bed with no tea because she wouldn't touch it (but milk) and has taken hours to fall asleep in her bed. No doubt she will be awake at some ungodly hour.

I'm cross that she's out of kilter and I need lots of sleep myself right now which she may end up disturbing again tonight.

When he is in the house I have realised I am completely on edge.

When he left tonight he was crying.

I'm now just feeling really really really unsettled. If I could I would put on my running gear, play some loud music and sprint it out but I can't leave the house.

OP posts:
Weebirdie · 31/05/2015 20:19

Im sorry your wee girl is out of sorts. xxxx

But as for realising your completely on edge when he's in the house - hold on to that realisation because I suspect the feeling isn't new though you might not yet be aware of it.

Your husbands tears? Well, better they are his then yours.

tomatoplantproject · 31/05/2015 20:26

You're right. It isn't the first time I have felt on edge with him in the house. I think that's one of the reasons I am feeling so unsettled.

I think he was crying over dd rather than me.

OP posts:
MsPavlichenko · 31/05/2015 20:30

Absolutely agree re the feeling not being new, only unrealised. It might be better for him not to be in the house at all. I know you want stability for your DD, but that doesn't mean that everything has to stay exactly the same, just she feels as secure as possible. She will, anyway pick up on any atmosphere/you being unsettled/her Dad being upset.

If he is spending time around you, albeit you are doing your own thing he will be picking up on how you are feeling, and reacting to it as others have suggested.

Hope you find a way to de stress.

tomatoplantproject · 31/05/2015 20:35

Am watching BGT. Not sure it's taking my mind off it enough though.

OP posts:
Weebirdie · 31/05/2015 20:35

Please don't let the tears bother you for the simple fact that its just a few weeks ago he was planning a future without your daughter in it to any great extent and it was going to be quite do-able for him. You're the one who would have been crying about the fallout - not him.

Im trying to make my posts brief in order not to add to your confusion and general feeling of your head and heart being in a spin dryer.

Im not being curt or hard regarding things, I just dont want to detract from being brief and to the point.

xx

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