Husband's affair: moving forwards in the right direction

[tomatoplantproject]

Previous thread here

Story so far:
Dh had a 7 month affair which I discovered 1 month ago just after he ended it.
We had been having problems in our marriage since the start of the affair which I took the blame for
He has moved out, my toddler dd and I are in the family home.
We had started having couples counselling before I discovered the affair which we are now using to deal with the aftermath
So far he wants reconciliation but doesn't seem to be going about it the right way. I am in 2 minds and hope the right course of action emerges over the next few weeks dependant on his behaviour/way he speaks about me.
Unfortunately the counselling tonight, when I had planned to spill out all of my feelings, has been cancelled. We are still meeting though.
With the support of my amazing parents, a handful of close friends, my adorable dd and of course the wonderful wise ladies of mumsnet I am ok.

He can't promise it won't happen again.

His comment re you not doing his washing. That really says everything about where he sees you in terms of the relationship. It is this sense of arrogance, entitlement and utter disrespect for you.

When people show you who they are, believe them.

Yes I think a chronological timeline/diary is a good idea. I've already done one for what was happening while he was having the affair.

I need to pull together the dates he has seen dd too. All confirmed by text or email.

What a pickle.

Good Night Tomato!

Just catching up.

For me, his sisters words today reminded me, quite apart from the not letting you see his phone 'on principle', that he also could not guarantee that he would not have another affair.

Either he doesn't understand what is involved in rebuilding this relationship or he doesn't care.

He can tell his sister all he likes that he wants to make it work but it sounds like spin to manage his family's view of him if he doesn't follow it through with you.

Indeed Tomato - try and make some notes or tell someone close with a good memory! My mum has a mind like a steel trap for this kind of stuff so whenever I weakened early on, she corroborated what he'd said. And now, the parents keep reassuring and supporting me. You need that partisan crowd.

I've had so little from him though that I'm hungry for what he is thinking and feeling

My thoughts are distasteful I am afraid.

I think that he had an affair and liked her a lot. He was torn but he chose you and ended it. He felt torn again and questioned his decision to chose you (went back to her briefly), then chose you again.

Then you found out. The hurt and new-love had for OW was still raw. He was scared to tell you how much he loved her because (in his mind) that will break your heart further and make it less likely to reconcile.

You made him think he had no chance with you (vetoed all talking) so he took second best - OW. He went back to OW because he thought you would not give the marriage a chance. She is now his second choice.

I am not suggesting is this is OK. It is not. He should have been stronger and tried harder for his marriage. But from my POV and in trying to explain his psychology, that is what I can see happening.

I maintain he is back in touch with OW. I maintain that she is second best and you are the one he would chose to be with. He would chose you over her if he was given the chance. In an ideal world he would be back with you, back to his 'normal' life and no longer seeing OW. But he is not putting in the effort to do that. Why? Maybe because he is scared that you won't have him back anyway so if he cuts ties with OW then he will end up with no one.

IMHO in order to stand any chance of resolving this he needs to be able acknowledge his feelings for OW and grieve for them. Whilst at the same time acknowledging that his feelings for you trump those he has for OW. But they do not mean the feeling for OW were not real. They still need to be grieved. When that grieving has passed he needs to begin the huge task of rebuilding your relationship. I do not believe he can emotionally do that while still grieving for his very real feelings for OW.

Fate
He can speak - and must speak- about all his feelings, including the ones you presume in the counseling sessions.
My guess is different from yours. He is no grieving the OW. He might be grieving his narcissist projection of himself in her mind/heart/bed.
I think it is more about some other deep belief he holds: he is entitled to some sex on the side - like the Windsor's. As simple as that. He likes many things French: architecture (I guess)- croissants for his special breakfasts with his daughter (I inferred) - and maybe he also likes this sacred entitlement of successful French men: a mistress or two.
That is the dangerous potential belief.
But we just play at guessing him. Maybe that will help Tomato get more revelatory information from him during the counseling session and maybe it will just create some bias.
Tomato good luck in uncovering the motives of his behavior!
Good Night again!

So here's me wide awake still.

Fate - I keep going over what you are saying. I think it is the most likely truth. He is still obsessed with her - whether still together or grieving. My guess is still together. Hence the comments to me on Tuesday and not letting me see his phone.

I also keep thinking about what weebirdie said after the whole debacle of last weeks meet - that it was a set up. And he continues to spin and spin that one by appearing heartbroken to his family knowing it will get back to me and also so that they still support him. I end up the bad guy all round.

The alternative is that he is just a broken idiot who can't put a foot right at the moment. Is too proud to ask for help or to listen to advice. Is too caught up in feeling sorry for himself to pay attention to the harm he continues to do.

It's doing my head in.

Even a broken idiot knows that you have to guarantee he won't have another affair in future in order for your wife to even consider reconciling...

While you're almost making me feel sorry for him, I can't help but recall that he let you have infertility investigations under general anaesthetic while he was shagging Italian job, and he was out partying when you were pregnant.

Up until last Tuesday I was trying be open-minded and give him the benefit of the doubt. He could just be monumentally emotionally unintelligent. But I do think this might be one of those cases when an affair sparks the realisation that he was always an arsehole.

Even if all of the above is true, it doesn't excuse his behaviour. You have talked of aspects of that you hated (daughter's art work) that predated the affair.

You can't control what he is saying to other people, or what they think. In the long term it doesn't matter anyway. You have to focus on you, your DD, and what will make you happy. I do know how difficult is is to not think about him. But as you said, it's doing your head in.

I'm fairly sure he is doing a lot of thinking too. About himself. No need to join in. Give yourself some space.

You are trying to make a huge, life altering decision in the middle if a crisis, never a good thing

But you don't have to, you can separate for a period ( say the rest of 2015) and make your long term decision when you have calmed down and you have had real time to reflect

Remember you have already made a big decision, you have told him to leave and you have chosen not to staying the marriage the way it was

Take a breath, discover who you are, then let that person decide is she wants to engage in a relationship with this man

Christina - even just reading that has made me let out a big sigh of relief.

We've got another day here, then back home tomorrow. I have to prepare for this interview and I think I need to pull that list together. I've not been sleeping well recently and I'm feeling exhausted again.

He's been thinking about me. He's very sorry. Apparently.

I agree with Christina, take time. There is nourishing resolve this. There's a lot of noise going on at the moment - his sister, no matter how well intentioned, will not like to think the worst of her DB. What matters is what HE is thinking and saying. So far, he's had an epic fail in even giving you the most basic reassurances.

Of course he would like go get back to the way things were, and probably do this without any deep soul searching. To have any chance of reconciliation, the starting point needs to be complete honesty. Without that, you would always have concerns in the back of your mind.

His family are dealing with his version of the truth, a version which will already have been spun in his favour - look at the language his sister was using.

Slow things down and listen to your heart. I know that sounds simplistic but if your heart is not in this, it's not worth spending the rest of your life with someone whose heart isn't committed to yours.

Autocorrect fail... *no rush

Leave the list and try to get your mind to stop the constant whirring

Take a step back, let him make all the moves

Do you want to work just now? Can you get part time?

Your mind will change opinion a thousand times a day so it isn't a good time to be making decision re house, work etc

Right, so now that you've told him (through his sister) how he needs to act, he's playing the part.

It's kind of meaningless now that he's been told what to do.

He also is still lying to you and plans more affairs.

That's what's on offer - a relationship with a philanderer who chose you to be his stay at home wifey who expects you to wash his clothes even when they're dirty from his latest assignation with his mistress.

He doesn't respect you.

He hasn't shown any respect for you at all in (ever?) months.

Not showing you his phone last week said it all.

And as for giving him space to "grieve" the *very real" feelings he had for some woman he barely knew. Give me fucking strength.

You are not his first choice. He has already told you that you are his compromise choice. For his own reasons he wants to stick with that choice, but there is no reason to believe it is out of love for you.

His number is, and always has been, himself.

He puts himself above his own daughter in the importance stakes.

But then she is female...

I'm listening to you.

I've been waiting for him to stop being angry and to start reaching out. All I know is that he has been an utter prick. And my heart is shattered right now.

The interview is for a maternity cover rather than a permanent job, full time though. Contract work seems a good place to start - I can see what working is like for a few months. It's the role that most piqued my interest because it's quite an unusual business and could be quite fun to work at.

That's a good starting point then, will also occupy your mind

If he's angry, it's because the dynamic of your relationship has changed. You are no longer doing what he both expects and wants.

Today has been a shocker. I've been pretty low all day. The dog has been thoroughly walked and I have recentred. My overriding thoughts:

1. I came away last Tuesday sure that she is still on the scene. He also could not guarantee not to have another affair.

2. By allowing me to have the general anaesthetic and to take the blame for the issues in our marriage when I was already down he put my physical and mental health at risk.

3. He is spinning the truth still.

I am not able to make any decisions and the door is still open but I have to continue to recreate my life again as if he will not be a part of my future.

I'm going home tomorrow. I have an iPad full of CBeebies to entertain dd on the train, and various bits and pieces organised for the next few days. I'm going to give myself a break from thinking about him and focus on me again and reconnecting with my old self - I am seeing friends, have a job interview and yoga planned.

It has been safe for me to fall apart here with my mum looking after dd.

I can see that some of the pressures have been building on you and you really need to take time for yourself. He may well be in touch with the OW but you also may never know the truth about that.

Sitting by while you went through a general anaesthetic, at risk to yourself, is unforgiveable. I think he felt he could juggle all the balls and he wanted the status of being married with children, living in a perfectly designed home, having a stunning career success... Your needs became secondary to the ball juggling and he really thought he could do it all.

Yes, he's still spinning like Malcolm Tucker - protecting his own interests. Your truth will very easily get lost in the mix and although people tend to feel sympathy with the injured partner to start with, many enjoy the lies and the drama and making it more romantic than it actually is. That's why your 'circle of trust' is so important. Speak to too many people and you will start to doubt yourself - his family included. They don't have to live with the outcome of this, you do. All that matters is what you want but you do need to take time to reach that stage. There is NO rush.

Be strict with yourself over the next few days - make it a dickhead-free zone. You owe it to yourself.

Ahhh tom it's a nightmare. Take a few days for yourself , go shopping, get a facial, hot bath, crappy tv, try hard to block this out... I remember wishing for a pause button for my head xxxx

It sounds so easy doesn't it to just not think about it. But that is what I need to start doing so stop driving myself a bit mad.

Right. Today is another day. And my first big train journey with dd since she was a baby.

Good luck on the train

Catching up on the posts and reading input about deal breakers here is my view. For me there are three very telling points, that I think clearly demonstrate where he is at.

Firstly; he couldn't guarantee that it wouldn't happen in the future, what was he thinking saying that?. Even if it was true, a (so called) "intelligent man" would not answer that unless he didn't care how it was received.

Second; You asked to see his phone and he refused, He had already admitted contact with OW, so he had minimised and legitimised contact with her. Now he could (in a way) take some of the moral high ground, by saying to you "in principle he should not have to show you his phone, you should accept his word". Then if he handed you the phone and you found nothing, he would have some moral high ground and no doubt you would have felt guilty. He had a great opportunity, that he was unable to capitalise on..... Who turns up at a meeting like this with incriminating evidence on his phone? (someone who doesn't care)

Lastly; I opened the conversation by asking his thoughts on it all. He said I was putting him on the spot, and he hadn't thought about what to say So he wanted you to believe he had given no thought whatsoever to what he was going to say!!!! How many hours, how many words have you commited to the meeting Tomato?? and yet he would have you believe he "just turned up". Here is a successful man who one would think was about to have a very crucial meeting and he would have you believe he had done zero preperation. Unless of course he hadn't done any preperation because he doesn't care.

Sorry if my view is a bit grim.