Can I ask how a 'normal' person would feel about this minor thing?

[twirlypoo]

I feel a total idiot asking this, but I'm trying really hard to keep myself on track and need someone who has healthy relationships what they would do/ feel.

Quick background: I have always had abusive / ea relationships. Last one ended 4 yrs ago when I was pregnant, and I tried really hard with a years psychotherapy to sort out my reactions / self esteem so it doesn't happen again.

I've just started dating again after aforementioned 4 years break and have met up with lovely guy who's a friend of a friend. We are on date 4, and I really like him but am trying not to get ahead of myself.

Ds sees his dad once a month for the day and it's the only break I really get. I'd arranged to meet new guy on sat when Ds with his dad. We were meeting lunch time out then going back to his to watch films and get a take away on the evening.

He texted me last night to say he had been asked to watch football with his mates and now wouldn't be free till 5pm.

I feel really hurt like he's got a better offer and have replied quite breezily saying not to worry and I'll pass on seeing him and just meet my friends instead (a lie, I'd do housework ) and he says that's an over reaction and he would just meet me later on.

Am I right in what I did or am I over reacting? In the past I would have just said no probs I'll see you at 6 or something, but I'm trying to have self esteem and value my time.

Am I being a princess or was I right in reacting the way I did?

Sorry for massive post. I've been trying to figure this out since last night! (In case it's a factor, I do really want to see him, but not if its wrong thing!)

Morning everyone, sorry I'm just back to the thread.

I am on phone so hard to remember everyone's names and all the points, but I'll try!

We left it as he asked to see me again and go back to original plans. He apologised and said that he just hadn't realised it would be an issue but he didn't mean to be disrespectful. I've told him I have other plans now but that we can meet up another time.

I'm still open to seeing him, his reaction when tackled on it seemed good to me (though I am aware my instincts are wobbly!) he apologised and tried to make it better and told me that he never intended it, he just didn't think.... I kind of figure this is a learning curve for us both, so he deserves another chance so long as nothing like this happens again. I'm def not seeing him this weekend tho!

I know 'skivving' work was perhaps the wrong phrase, I'm self employed so some days are manic (like yesterday!) and others I'm pretty free and at a loose end. I wasn't calling in sick or anything I promise - I agree that would be too much!

I'm def going to look at the freedom program and have downloaded the books you have all mentioned. It's hard gaining self worth and self esteem - I feel like I'm faking it at the moment and trying to copy other people. I'm hoping that in time it just becomes my new normal.

Argh, Ds is jumping on me so I have to bugger off now - but THANKYOU, really, so much. This experience was a test for me but you have all been so brilliant in helping me figure it out. I hope I haven't disappointed you all by giving him another chance (needy with low self esteem too!)

That all sounds really positive :) you've got your instincts tuned for more idiocy, so I think you're safe to give him a go. Hopefully he's just had a moment of madness and it'll all be good from here.

Just read whole thread and your last post. I think you've made a very balanced assessment of what to do. He has apologised, explained and offered to cancel his friends to reinstate his original plans - which means he merits a second chance. Your response not to gratefully embrace this suggestion but to calmly decline and to agree that you are happy to continue to see him on an alternative date is practically textbook perfect. You've set boundaries and been very rational and measured

Well done for holding out and not seeing him this weekend, you have made it clear that your time is valuable.

Exactly right. No-one thinks you should cast him out forever (but even if we did it's your decision) but you were spot on not to cave. How he reacts now will be interesting - if you were a booty call you're being too much like hard work. But if he's keen and stays in touch I would make plans for your next free day.

Perfect.

Hi twirly, glad you are feeling better about things.

Unlike some others, I don't like the tone of his apology at all.

He apologised and said that he just hadn't realised it would be an issue but he didn't mean to be disrespectful.

This would annoy the shit out of me TBH.

It basically says that what he did was acceptable and that the only problem is that you found it "disrespectful", even though it wasn't.

It's very much a "sorry you feel that way" apology.

It deflects from the actual issue it brought up - namely that his ardour for you was such that he would quite happily ditch you to go to the pub with his mates.

The thing is that he can't really honestly apologise for what happened. He did choose to drop your plans when his friends suggested something as unexciting as watching football in the pub.

The only thing he could apologise for is making an issue of the fact that you didn't just go along with his plans to come over for a drunken shag when he had finished having his fun.

When he said "I thought I could do both", that gave a pretty big clue that what his priorities are and how he sees you.

There is no way, short of time travel, that he thought he could have a date with you and also go to the pub at the same time.

What "both" means is that he thought he could go to the pub and still have sex this weekend.

Then he tried to pull that back with his exciting offer of afternoon delight yesterday.

You've only been on 3 dates. This is someone you are just trying out. And you already know that he isn't excited about spending time with you, doesn't respect your time, and treats you as a booty call.

Offering to reinstate the date after cancelling it for a better offer and being obviously narked that you rescinded your offer of a shag as a result, isn't really much.

I don't think we helped you figure it out: you did it all yourself, because you already have it all figured out.

You can be proud of yourself.

Given your circumstances, your free time is very precious and he obviously didn't understand that in the beginning but now he does. You handled it very well.

A fourth date is a weird point. So many people think he should be putting out every effort and acting as if you are the main only important thing. 'Gagging for it' someone said. By date 4? Not necessarily. I am more of the idea that a 4th date is someone you still hardly know, and it isnt anything like a relationship yet. It is the point at which either or both of you can set some bad precedents in the name of being nice or cooperative, or trying to impress each other. You can slide into being a doormat, or cutting yourself off from friends easy as pie at this stage. So, good on you both for NOT doing that. Begin as you mean to go on is a good mantra at this stage. He gave you a good opportunity to define your expectations of how the two of you will interact and cooperate and negotiate. You have demonstrated that you have your own life to live, you arent just waiting around to be fit into his. But, so has he.

Yes, invites from friends come up late in the week, especially to people whom others may not know are in the beginings of a relationship. His phrasing was stupid. He should have ASKED if you would be OK with a later start time for your stay at home and watch films date. but, IMHO, that he wanted to fit in time with friends and a date with you in one day is a neutral and normal situation. It could have been you with an unexpected offer to meet some friends, and you would have more reason than him to try to manage both activities, given your schedule. No one would say you should be dropping all your friends by date 4 and never renegotiating plans if another potential plan came up, and you wanted to. In fact, if you were going down that route, people would be saying it was teenagerish, & desperate for you to behave that way, and a man that expected it might be showing a warning you should take note of.

You did act normal. Now you get to wait and see what he does with that. If he is normal, then this is a good start. If he is not, and backs off then you have saved yourself a lot of trouble. He still might be a jerk, and keep trying, but if you stand firm he will go find a doormat elsewhere.

Also, in my experience as a dating single mum, avoiding planning your entire weekend without children around 1 person. It is all too easy to fall into the habit of seeing them Friday evening, maybe someone staying over the night and then it becoming a habitual EOW weekend long date. Fun sometimes, but important to have other things you do in absence of kids, whether you do them alone, with friends, or with your family. Whether they are chores or things you enjoy. Maintain YOU.

A man who needs it explained to him that your time is as valuable as his is too thick to be wasting that precious time on.

This has sod all to do with "special" circumstances.

Ditching someone because you got a better offer is rude.

And also says something very clear about how much you enjoy their company.

Nobody who is worth being your boyfriend would pull a stunt like this or react the way he did.

If he was really into you, this wouldn't have arisen.

And the normal thing to do if he wanted to see his friends as well as you was suggest you both popped along to the pub for a drink after your lunch.

Not cancel the main part of your date and then still expect to come over for sex.

I'm with Bathtime Funkster 100%

I'm also 100% with Funkster.

I suspect that OP wouldn't have done this herself. If her friends asked her to go to the pub for a few hours today, encroaching on the time she'd scheduled for her date with him, I will stick my neck out and say she would have refused, as she already had plans.
If that's the case, giving him the benefit of the doubt that he's not a tosser, they are somewhat incompatible. Some of us are reliable, stick to our plans and don't fuck others around on a whim. OP sounds like that to me. He OTOH is not one of those people.

Also, the match being mentioned, if I've got this right, is an early kick off. It will be over well before 5pm. However the 3pm kick off matches will finish close to 5pm. I suspect it wasn't just one match he wanted to watch, that was oh so special and close to his heart, he just prefers to spend the afternoon in the pub with his mates.

Not necessarily saying to dump, but am saying to keep a very close eye on similar future behaviour.

It was me who said "Gagging for it" momagain- and I couldn't agree with you less.

After a few dates one knows perfectly well whether one is keen to see that person again- especially as they've already done the squelchy. You don't need to know your date well to be looking forward to seeing them.

The fact he wanted to sack off a confirmed arrangement at the last minute to go and watch football in the pub tells me all I need to know about his level of interest.

As dear uncle Greg would say, HJNTIY. Go and find someone who is.

Dredging something up that I heard years ago, but wasn't it in Ancient Greece that you were punished more for a crime if you didn't know it was a crime, because you damn well should have known? Seems to fit this situation. I would dump him - I think he wants to live as one of the lads and have a fuck buddy.

Yeap, it is common courtesy that if you make plans with someone, you don't take up a better offer at the last minute.

I honestly wouldnt waste my
Time on him again. Like others, i think there are red flags here. But try date four if youre still wondering.

But think about what are the dates for? Is there still effort involved? Take out at someones house and sex isnt a date, it is for way way into a relationship when youve stopped making an effort.

Hello!

Im a bit scared to return thank you all so much for the input, I feel bit confused reading all the replies now!

I was happy to give a second chance, mostly cos I felt like we are still so new, that it's a learning curve for us both. I felt he was genuine in his apology and saying that he just didn't think. I don't know, maybe im naive?

To update (again!) he texted me this morning to find out when Ds had gone with his dad and then turned up with flowers and breakfast stuff about 20 mins later. He said he didn't want to be forward but he knew he had messed up and couldn't see me later as I had made new plans, so if I had time now he would love to have breakfast with me. I was really impressed as it took guts I think to turn up (he was visible nervous) and to be honest, it's nicest thing anyone has done for me in a bloody long time.

I'm getting ready now to go out with the girls, and I really am grateful for all your replies. It's hard reading the ones where you say he's not that into me, but I think it's def worth keeping in mind as I don't want to be a fool.

Thank you all again

Did you have time to look your best twirly, I hate being caught without my face on.

I think that people have got a bit carried away, he made a mistake, he was put straight.

I was in bloody Pjamas with bed head I had however brushed my teeth and luckily was wearing half of yesterday's make up still. Yup. I'm quite the catch huh?!

hey that's great! we all fuck up sometimes. he has made amends. you know now that your twat radar is working just fine, and to trust your instincts.

Thanks for updating twirl. I agree with Polly, he now knows he made a mistake and has tried to put it right. It was really sweet of him to come round with flowers and ask to have breakfast with you.
I'd definitely give him a second chance. Good luck with it aLl and have a great time out with the girls!

HaHa twirly always a good look.

That sounds really nice! What a lovely update
I think now you've set the standard, he knows what effort is required from him and if he's willing to put the effort in then it can only be a good thing.
You know how you deserve to be treated so keep trusting your instincts.