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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I think I need to call off my wedding, and I'm absolutely petrified

177 replies

Runawaybride1 · 06/05/2015 12:07

I've realy hesitated to post this over the past few days but I need to get this down. Understandable name change. I've been engaged since the beginning of the year and we're due to be married in early September. We've only lived together since last summer and I have 2 dc, 7 & 9.

Before we moved in, dp lived in a hovel. I'm talking something you'd see on TV, it was that bad. I didn't know for a very long time, since with the dc it was easier for him to come to mine. When I found out I was appalled. I was upset for him, and absolutely raging tbh that he'd told me he'd tidied up and there were piles and piles of things so that the floor couldn't be seen, nowhere clean to sit down, and filth about two inches thick in every surface of the kitchen, as well as cupboards full of plates just left with food on to go mouldy. I was shocked, our friends had told me it was bad but I had no idea how bad. I asked him to clean it up, went back a few weeks later and nothing had changed. I spent a whole day scrubbing the kitchen and it still wasn't clean. It became a massive issue for me, even though it wasn't my house. He'd lived there by himself for close to a decade and even his parents didn't know how he was living. I bought him curtains for his bare windows, new crockery for his kitchen, but the curtains were never hung, and the crockery never used.

The time came last summer when my landlord was selling up so I had to move, and we agreed to move in together. This, I see now, was my big mistake. We'd been together two years at that point, and I thought we were ready to move in. The problem was, he still wouldn't see a problem with his flat. He left it right til the last day and brought literally everything with him, and left it in our new garage. He's insisted he'll sell it, it's mostly comics and computer games (he's nearly 40 btw...) Nearly a year later it's still here, and this stuff is beginning to migrate into the house.

We've been to lots of boot sales recently to pick up things for the wedding, and he'll buy stacks of games at each one saying they're for eBay. But they never get listed. I don't understand, truly, why he'd buy more stuff when our garage is rammed with things that need selling.

Last night it came to a horrible head, I asked if we could clear a shelf in the dining room which was loaded with games he'd just left. I started to help and he basically told me to get lost and he'd do it. He ended up throwing a glass award he got from work about 15 years ago into the bin with such force it smashed. I went upstairs, and goodness knows where he went but he went off in the car for a few hours. I went to bed and haven't heard a word since. I was up in the morning with the dc and he didn't say a word before work.

I get that hoarding is a real problem. He has lots of issues from his parents splitting up when he was about 13, and I think that's when his started. Somehow, this stuff makes him feel safe. But I am fed up of playing the nagging wife. We've both been selling on eBay to raise money for the wedding, but so far I've paid for absolutely everything, the church at £700 and everything for the reception so far too. I'm a sahm so this is starting to grate. I'm selling everything I don't use and he isn't stumping up anything. I'm starting to get resentful. I had a truly horrible night last night where I suddenly realised I don't want to do this anymore. I won't tiptoe around this issue, but nor will it ever be solved because I don't actually think he wants to change. He's totally blind to having a tidy house, but to me it's important. He never proved to me before we moved in together that he was capable of living normally, for want of a better word. I was about to end all this by saying ...'but I do love him' but now I'm here I'm not actually sure it's true :(

OP posts:
DinosaursRoar · 06/05/2015 12:56

OP - if you were just a single woman, I would suggest if you love him, cancel/posponing the wedding and try to get him to get help for his mental health problems, re-visiting the marriage idea in a year or so.

However, you arent just a single woman, you have DCs to think about. It is unfair to expect them to live with a horder who flies off the handle when challenged about his hording. They can't be expected to share a house with him until after he's had treatment and you're certain he's cured/has his problems under control, not while he's still like this.

Cancel all the things you have paid for for the wedding, can you get money back from any to help towards a desposit on your own? You were able to rent alone before, get advice about what help you are entitled to and start building a new life without being in the same house as him.

You aren't trapped forever, you don't need to move this week, you can take your time to get some money together for a deposit. Many people would have a problem with that, but as you have DCs, I would think it's perfectly acceptable not to tell him you are planning to end your relationship until you've got a new home for them secured.

expatinscotland · 06/05/2015 12:56

' If OPs other half had cancer would you suggest LTB?!'

It's not cancer, FFS! He doesn't have cancer. Pretty offensive to compare it, too.

Cancer is a life-threatening disease that requires brutal treatment that is often fatal to the afflicted and many, many people here have loved ones who have died from it.

Pollyswall · 06/05/2015 12:56

My DH was a bit of a hoarder, but never had much stuff to hoard, now he's older it has got much worse. My life is a constant battle to keep his crap confined to certain areas.

You know exactly what you are dealing with, it will get worse, it always gets worse.

If you take his problems on board, your DC will have their lives badly affected too, don't do it.

catsrus · 06/05/2015 12:56

"The Gift of Fear springs to mind" what a fabulous phrase - and so true. I know a hoarder, love him to bits, but he closes down when confronted with getting rid of anything that might be useful (in his mind) and he knows and acknowledges the problem (!). my friend's db is a hoarder and it's having a major impact on the structural stability of his parents' home.

The dirt and squalor he is comfortable to live with is a huge issue - you will always be the one cleaning, sorting, cajoling. Do you want that?

What options do you have? go into practical mode. What future do you want for you and your dc?

TheAssassinsGuild · 06/05/2015 12:57

I saw I needed help and I went out and got it

THAT is the crucial thing. You recognised a problem. You realised you needed to deal with it. You went and got the help you needed.

That's not the case with him, is it?

Anniegetyourgun · 06/05/2015 12:59

It's also really not doing anyone any favours to sleepwalk into a marriage just because you can't afford the rent without him. You can't use a guy like that. Besides, what's the point of renting a nice house when you can't use most of it due to the clutter? May as well have a smaller, affordable place that's all habitable.

Runawaybride1 · 06/05/2015 13:00

Assassin, I'm sorry your childhood was like that. The house really isn't the problem, it's mostly the garage with the odd thing in the house left lying around for too long. Some of it is no doubt worth a bit of money, but the things that definately aren't, he just can't get rid of.
I've just realised I've not mentioned, and this really isn't to drip feed, that as part of my cbt for my own issues I was told I had OCD, not necessarily of the cleaning sense, more of the unhelpful thoughts sense. I have a real problem with relinquishing control, and am probably far too uptight about things being just so, which probably doesn't help this situation. Im actually dreading him getting home as I know this isn't going to be easy and may well end with some nasty things being said.

OP posts:
HopefulHamster · 06/05/2015 13:02

It may be an illness but it's not like many others. If he's this bad now, having left a filthy hovel behind him and having brought his stuff with him (ie given a real chance to start over), it's only going to get worse.

If you were already married and this started up out of nowhere that might be different.

I think you know in this case the relationship is best to be over. It's not your fault and there's nothing you can do to fix it. He has to want to, and even if he does he has to keep on top of that for years. Will he? Unlikely, and then your whole family will be surrounded by junk :-/. Run while you can was, sadly, the right answer.

Mitzimaybe · 06/05/2015 13:04

Hoarding is more like alcoholism than cancer, in my (significant, relevant) experience. Until the sufferer accepts that they have a problem and really genuinely wants to change (not just making the right noises to their partner) then nothing you can do will change them. Even if they are desperate to change, engage with treatment, and work on the problem, it is still very, very difficult and the people closest to them (i.e. you and your children) get the worst of it.

I think you are being very brave and very sensible by realising that the problem isn't going to get better, only worse. His reaction to the move, the stuff in the garage which he won't get rid of, the purchasing new stuff at boot fairs, storming off when asked to clear a single shelf - it's not going to get any better. You'll end up with your children unable to bring their friends home to tea, they won't have any space to play...

I think you realise this and you're posting here for validation. Well, you've got it. You're right. Calling off the wedding now and having to find somewhere else to live won't be easy, but it's much better than letting things slide and having to extricate yourself a few years down the line when everything is much, much worse.

TheAssassinsGuild · 06/05/2015 13:05

The chances are that it will end up being the house too though. His own flat was taken over my it, and you've siad it's already encroaching into house space - the shelf that prompted him throwing away his award.

Hoards only ever encroach, and it's very likely that this one will too. Even if he promises that it won't. Hoards grow. It is their nature.

I get intrusive and unhelpful thoughts too. But sometimes the thoughts you get are truthful and helpful! Just because you may have an issue relinquishing control, doesn't mean that he doesn't have a serious hoarding problem.

DinosaursRoar · 06/05/2015 13:06

Just because it's not in the house now, doesn't mean it won't be - he's not going to stop collecting 'useful' and 'valuable' stuff once the garage is full. If he is a horder, while he might truely believe at the point he is buying stuff that he's buying it to sell on as it has a higher value, he wont be able to do the 'selling on' bit, and certainly won't be able to just throw out stuff if it turns out not to have value.

Waltermittythesequel · 06/05/2015 13:07

It's the garage now OP.

But when he fills that, where will it go?

Keep reading Assassins post and think of your dc.

His hoarding and your OLD? Why would you even want to consider raising them in that?

sallycinnamum · 06/05/2015 13:13

OP, my mum is a hoarder and there's absolutely nothing you can do to change his behaviour I'm afraid.

It's a recognised mental illness and takes years and years to treat. In fact, from what experts have told me, it can never be cured only managed.

My mum had a severe illness a few year's ago which triggered it off but looking back, she always had a tendency to store stuff. I am the exact opposite and hate clutter. In fact, I'd say I've gone the other way and am slightly obsessive about having a clean and tidy home.

My dad has put up with it because my mum doesn't see it as a problem and that is the issue. Until she recognises, it's a problem there's fuck all we can do about it and my God, we've tried believe me.

It will not get better. That I can tell you with some certainty.

AvantGardener · 06/05/2015 13:24

I've namechanged (I hope), as I don't usually post personal stuff, but I grew up with a dad who hoarded. My mum threatened divorce over it many many times, and he would start trying to address the problem (nobody else was allowed to touch his stuff) by painstakingly sorting through stuff, only for days to pass without much progress, and of course the problem would soon enough be back to its original dimensions. We had a family house which should have been comfortably big enough for us all, but basically lived in one room which my mum tried to keep mostly free of his stuff. Even then, it was never clear or tidy enough for her to feel comfortable inviting friends over, and it went without saying that we children were always the guests, never the hosts. I had to share a bedroom with my opposite-sex sibling until I was well into my teens, only eventually getting the boxroom (my sanctuary! It was BLISS) after mum blew up like Vesuvius one weekend.

He is the kindest, loveliest father and I have always adored him, but there was always this blind spot with him- he simply couldn't change. It wasn't that he didn't love us, at all: I can see now that he has had deeply-entrenched OCD all his life, and quite possibly undiagnosed ASD. He's very elderly now, and it's only been in the last few years, now that he physically cannot visit the rooms (and garage, and loft, and cellars) where he thinks his stuff is, that my mum has been able to reclaim most of her home. She paid for storage for a long time until realising that it was pointless and what he couldn't see wouldn't hurt him. The freedom this has given her has transformed her happiness- living like that must have really ground her down for years.

She's a sensible woman, and if she'd known what we do now about this kind of mental illness fifty years ago, I'm sure she would have insisted he get treatment for it, or, more likely, given him a wide berth from the start. I wouldn't have been born then, I guess, and it's the only life I've known, but I don't think anybody would choose the stress that goes with embarking on marriage and family with a real hoarder. It just pervades everything.

You've got to cancel the wedding really- you'd be insane to go ahead with it while he's like this. It's not fair to you or your children, it really isn't.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 06/05/2015 13:29

Runaway

re your comment:-
"The house really isn't the problem, it's mostly the garage with the odd thing in the house left lying around for too long. Some of it is no doubt worth a bit of money, but the things that definately aren't, he just can't get rid of".

And that is the precise problem here; his hoarding. You also cannot rescue and or save this relationship at all and the sooner you realise that the better it will also be for your children as well. They do not need or warrant a hoarder in their lives and they will detest you for bringing him into their lives to boot.

Its already encroaching on your house OP: this relationship is really well and truly over. This is really dead in the water, its in its death throes now. Do not marry this man under any circumstances; infact this relationship has to end now. You will have to tell him its over for good.

Hoarding often starts in adolescence, the problems stem back to that time.
Hoarding is indeed a recognised mental illness and such people do not change. Its extremely hard to treat even with professional help and its often not curable. Only managed. If no professional help is ever sought by him there is no chance.

My late FIL was a hoarder and his clutter ended up all over their house and garage (he kept broken glass in envelopes for instance). It was not at all amusing.

kinkyfuckery · 06/05/2015 13:37

I hope noone takes offence to this, it isn't meant...

OP Do you believe her is a hoarder? Or do you think he is just lazy and doesn't 'see' the mess?

Runawaybride1 · 06/05/2015 13:42

Kinky, honestly, I think part of my worrying about this is being all too aware of my own issues. I'm worrying that in fact I have a massive problem about him having stuff, any stuff, because I know how he used to live. And maybe I'm the kne being unreasonable here. He admits he's lazy, he's said that whenever it's been brought up before, but it's the huge show and sighs that get me whenever he feels he's been made to clear out. I don't want to be a nag. But I also won't be taken for a mug. I'm very cross actually at all the people who knew him before I did, his (now our) friends knew what he was like, his family clearly just ignored it, and I think there's a horrible element hat he feels he's not worth the bother. He treats other people so well, he's generous and kind, but he doesn't feel he deserves to give himself the same.

OP posts:
AttilaTheMeerkat · 06/05/2015 13:48

No you are not being at all unreasonable here.

This man you are with has massive problems which started in adolescence; problems which yourself you cannot solve for him. He has to want to help his own self with regards his hoarding (and that often starts in adolescence). There is nothing you can do to influence that process.

Your children and yourself are ultimately your number one priority. He must not be your priority any more; he will simply drag you and your children down with him.

TheClacksAreDown · 06/05/2015 13:55

I can imagine it is very easy to ignore those things when you don't have to live in the middle of them.

Anniegetyourgun · 06/05/2015 13:56

A lazy person (or an avoidant one, like me) might not have got around to sorting the heap out before moving, but they wouldn't have had a problem if someone else helped to get rid of it unless they were genuinely going to use it - which he wasn't, because he doesn't. What you've got is someone who gets into a tremendous panic when they have to clear even a small area; someone with a massive aversion to throwing things away; with a fear of uncluttered space where a nice cosy rat's nest should be. Consider, also, that just because you have issues the opposite way doesn't mean yours are wrong or in any way less important than his. Here are two people, one of whom has a terror of being swamped by stuff, the other of whom has a terror of not being swamped by stuff. How can anyone recommend these two try to keep house together? One or the other, or in the case of a compromise both, will be thoroughly miserable. That's a given.

DoorToTheRiver · 06/05/2015 14:04

I'm a hoarder but don't consider I've got anxiety issues or any such thing. But I don't live in squalor and live by myself. I don't trawl round car boot sales buying stuff I don't need, I just don't like parting with what I already have for sentimental reasons and because I don't like chucking stuff out when there's nothing wrong with it.

But if my boyfriend and I decided to move in together then I would have a clear out. I wouldn't jeopardise my relationship by holding on to stuff I didn't really need.

Your fiance's issues seem fairly ingrained. Even I don't see the point in buying computer games that he's clearly got no intention of playing. Him moving was the ideal opportunity for him to have a clear out but he just brought it with him.

I think it seems like his stuff will eventually creep into the house rather than just stay in the garage. As you have told him that you are not happy and it is causing problems and he still hasn't changed then I don't think he will.

It seems to me that you have differences with his hoarding and your OCD that mean you are incompatible to live together. These issues will always be there. I'm sorry but I think you do need to call off your wedding.

Jan45 · 06/05/2015 14:08

I'm not so sure about him being ill, I've met some incredibly articulate people who live like absolute tramps and don't care either!

You are clearly incompatible, not many folk could live with someone like that, I know I couldn't - it's very selfish behaviour whether there's a good reason for it or not, he doesn't care OP, he'd have fixed it by now, you have given him numerous chances, all he has done is move his mess from place to another, imagine your house in ten years time - sorry but F that.

He seems incredibly inflexible to your needs, to be in a long term marriage or relationship involves considering the other person's needs and wants, you wanting space in your home and cleanliness are pretty basic requirements.

I think he's always gonna be a confirmed bachelor and I think you jumped the gun when agreeing to the marriage, you'd be best to call it off, give him the chance to at least try and change and see what happens.

holeintheworld · 06/05/2015 14:20

Never mind the hoarding. He isnt planning and saving and choosing for the wedding as if its the most amazing and wonderful thing ever happened to him and the day hes looking forward to like no other. Run away from that.

AuntyMag10 · 06/05/2015 14:27

Op even if you don't want to acknowledge he is a hoarder with deep issues, what about your children? Is it right to make them live this way? What about them? This is already a problem before you're married, do not make the mistake by thinking problems get better after marriage.

AndTheBandPlayedOn · 06/05/2015 14:43

You simply are not compatible then.
You have been very kind to him, but at the end of the day, that has not carried any enough influence with him to evolve, change on his own nor with help (even your help).
The hoard is not the Staffordshire Hoard though, is it? It is junk that might bring in a few quid if the effort is put into selling and processing it. But that isn't happening either...being explained with a dismissive excuse of laziness. This is who he is.

I would also have a concern with your potential liability to the rental property's damage due to the hoard providing habitats for invasive pests and/or mold, not to mention the obvious fire hazard.

Don't do this to yourself. Please, please, please don't do this to your children. It wouldn't be a bad investment to persue counselling for your children asap if you continue with the relationship. They can be taught to set personal boundaries for their personal space, and gain meaningful employment and money management education (savings) to move out (escape) at the very earliest opportunity. (You have the choice whether or not to continue with a hoarder, your children do not have a choice.) Counselling can also help them obtain the understanding that empathy and/or sympathy has to have a limit when it encroaches on one's own well being- whether financial or emotional (or even physical living environment of filth and volume of space).

Step away, kindly, in your own time. You just are not compatible.