Husband had affair with nanny - don't know what to do. Devastated & need help.

[kiwimommy]

I found out my dh had been in an affair with our 30yo nanny on the due date of our 3 rd baby. They had been at it for about 6 months, even going on weekends away together - leaving me to care for our 2 active boys alone while heavily pregnant.
Needless to say the nanny was sacked immediately. We've been together nearly 20 yrs and I was not willing to rip apart our marriage without even trying to salvage it. We have seen a counsellor and things between us have been improving ( our relationship had been pretty miserable for a while - not all his fault but definitely made worse by his affair as he was being pretty mean to me).

My problem is I just keep finding out more stuff that he is lying to me about. I've questioned him about the affair - places they went to, when they spent time together and he just lies to my face (I' be snooped his emails).
Yesterday I discovered an email he sent her 3 weeks after I found out/2 weeks after baby born addressed as 'hi darling' with her final pay calculations. As she was fired for gross misconduct I was adamant she would not receive pay in lieu of notice, and told him I would handle the money transfers. This email makes it clear he went ahead and paid her a further 2 grand anyway.
I am livid - he's lavished her with gifts, romantic getaways while treating me like the hired help. He got me a packet of lindor for Mother's Day from tesco & he gives her 2 grand of our effing money. And he's lieing to my face about it.

On top of that I've discovered he's started to watch a lot of porn on the Internet ( we r not sleeping together & he is in spare room - the kids think it is because of the newborn).

We have no family close as we are both from abroad, and I am just so confused & distraught as our kids would be devastated if we split. (I would have left him if we didn't have 3 boys to consider).

Help!!

Kiwi,
Obviously this is a real and raw time for you and you need time to assess if you think your marriage can be saved. All advice on here is probably meant to be in your best interest, but you need to decide what you want. If you think the marriage can be saved, you need to decide under what conditions (and what actions must be undertaken).

Here are some thoughts from a male perspective. Men rarely truly understand the consequence of an affair (we should be forced to read mumsnet).
Because DH had an affair does not mean (in his own way) that he does not love (and respect) you.
DH is probably in "minimise mode", I remember (many years ago) and old guy gave me some advice "only ever admit to what you think you can get away with" (obviously a charmer). But I think in some cases men think if they minimise their misdemeanor it will go away easier. Less crime / less time approach. If you truly do want to know the nitty, gritty you need your DH to know that the more he tells you will not affect his punishment (I know its not punishment, but I used the term to illustrate my point, if that is OK).

Lastly and the bit I don't understand is the part where you DH called the nanny "Darling", the 2 grand is less of an issue for me. Ask your DH if your Nanny has "something on him"? In a way this may go to the point above about the process of being totally honest about what went on.

In balance to the threads above we should also mention the threads were a poster returns and says "A year ago you all told me to leave him or he'd continue to lie and cheat. I thought you were wrong, you were right".

DrMorbius
Welcome Doctor. Please do comment more often on relationships threads where we do struggle to understand the male riddle.

I am really glad to see men taking part in such threads. We need more men doing the same - that way we can build better and more balanced views of the crises that threaten relationships. Just some remarks about affairs ( dear Kiwi forgive me if I ramble a bit and highjack your thread)- these are my opinions and I am probably partly wrong:

• men do not understand the extent of the harm affairs cause- as you DrM said; moreover
• some men (usually the ones that do not have affairs or the ones who have been caught having one) and the women who are not on the receiving end tend to blame the betrayed partner for the affair; often than not the betrayed partner feel shamed and ashamed; like if the affair diminished him/her. It looks as if the only way for him/her to rebuild his image in the society is to leave the bastard.
• the OW comes out as clever if she manages to steal him and as a victim if she does not. She might be perceived as a genius if she managed to get impregnated by a clever powerful married father. She is always an interesting person. (Statically: rich men and poor women are more cheating than others. The knight with the shiny armor (monies) and the poor damsel (the OW) scenario. )
• the cheater: if he is not caught then men admire him and even the OW's admire him. If he is caught then he is not worth much- unless his partner or OW keep him. (But hey 'he will not be caught will he?') I have seen a TV program about dating sites for married people and this uber-sophisticated woman was trying to convince viewers that monogamy was overrated and outdated. No-one reminded her that the big progresses that made possible our more compassionate and sophisticated society were the direct result of monogamy. Monogamy taught us to control our instincts, to be loyal and caring to each other even when lust and beauty are a fading memory and sickness and physical decline replaced them a long time ago. Monogamy resulted in strong family units without which major progresses would not have been possible (just look at the parts of the world where monogamy was not rooted).

Vivacia
Fair enough. I am not good at fishing up threads. So if you want you can bring it up.
Vivacia: remember we are fighting for the same cause- to make feel better about themselves the betrayed partners. In different ways. You want to protect them forever from having the same heartbreak. I want them to 'blend' the affair in the background of their relationship, minimize its impact and improve their relationship. It hurts me when family units are broken and when long term relationships are cut 'short' (?). Of course my attitude is risky: he/she might cheat again...in my opinion it is a risk worth taking. If he/she cheats again then we just leave without looking back confident that we did our best. Et la vie continue...I might be wrong. Just remember we are allies not foes.

The DH has a 6 month affair right under the ops nose, while she was pregnant. He gave the ow thousands of pounds/presents of family money. Now he lies about what he did/denies it and spends evenings watching porn.

Who on earth is breaking the family unit here?

Kiwi, he is showing you what he is, and he is an unrepentant twat. There's no avoiding that, is there?

I am so sorry that your DH has done this kiwi

I would never say you are wrong for wanting to save your marriage just that you need to be clear on what you are saving.

He betrayed you and your children, not just once but through a series of calculated well thought out lies and deception. Can you be sure that this part of him will never surface again?

Whatever happens in your future I truly hope you come out the other side happy and content.

04 we are not on the same side I'm afraid. You advocate a betrayed partner physically hitting her partner. You voice an incredibly misogynistic attitude towards the OW. You attitude towards men is baffling and offensive.

I support a woman's right to choose to "save her marriage" but only when her partner is also fully committed and it is not to the detriment of her or the children's well being.

JFR
I am not suggesting that Kiwi is the one who will break the family if she chooses to LTB. I would absolutely and fully support her if she chooses to LTB. He is the one to blame. I would bring up again and again his nasty behavior to support her if she chooses to leave him. But we all must allow her to make her choice: if she chooses to stay then we all must be behind her unless her posts suggest that he is not trying hard to win her back. (I remember the thread: lies lies lies- I was surprised that the OP wanted to give her husband a second chance because all her posts portrayed him as a non-remorseful man and when I asked her to write a post of his 'bright' side she completely disappeared. Her right by all means. I bring up this example just to prove that I am the one to say 'stay married/in relationship' at all costs.) I repeat in other terms what I say: give him a probation period- if you are convinced that he understands the harm of affairs, if he shows sincere remorse and repentance and his behaviors atone his 'sins' - and if you still want him then stay in relationship. If any of these conditions is not fulfilled then by all means LTB. However give him a probation period and a second chance first, before making up your mind. How long must the probation period be? I do not know. It must be well defined but there is no one fits for all probation period.

error in previous post, the sentence
I bring up this example just to prove that I am the one to say 'stay married/in relationship' at all costs
should read
I bring up this example just to prove that I am NOT the one to say 'stay married/in relationship' at all costs
(a revelatory lapse the psychoanalysts would say 'n'est-ce-pas?' girls)

He's had his second chance probation period - and look how that's turned out. The OP is right to question and consider a different approach now.

Dr Morbius -- I too welcome the male perspective and was interested to read your contribution.

Just to be clear, what do you mean by "has something on him"? (you were suggesting the OP asks her husband if the ex-nanny "has something on him").

Does it mean a) she knows a dark secret he would like her to keep quiet

or b) she still has an emotional hold over him?

And second question, if I may -- in your life have you ever known of a man who has behaved this badly to turn things around and become the kind of person one might want to stay married to?

I'm so sorry Kiwi, you must be in a million bits.

Fair enough Vivacia I tried to forget your final strong argument for your LTB stance when I objected to it but it popped up when I read your post. Remember you balanced and fair woman what it was? Here I will bring it up:
you , Vivacia, could never get his penis in the OW vagina off your head....
But of course my attitude to men is baffling and offensive (sex is just sex men say and I trust when they say so) and I am misogynic toward the OW, me who hit my betrayer once or twice but did not think about his penis or her vagina (bagatelles in my view) until you raised it (that made me laugh. ) My OW is a woman I tried to help when I met her, and he did help her a lot. However she physically initiated the affair and pursued him when he moved out of the flat where they were room-mate and played the conversion act and what not to bring him back to her until he impregnated her; and when he wanted to meet the innocent girl on his own, she refused whilst before she was happy to join in...but I just have a misogynic view of her because her documented behavior might (God Forbid) alleviates the case against my H, you with a non-offensive view of men...
Oh Vivacia you are right: we are on different planets. (Still I want you to know that I am grateful to you because I think when I just posted back in August you helped me go through my angry phase. You helped me a lot. I vividly remember your name.)

Because DH had an affair does not mean (in his own way) that he does not love (and respect) you.

I'd be interested in seeing the evidence for his respect for his wife, Dr Morbius.

Was it when he secretly took the nanny away with family money to hotels leaving the pregnant op with two kids to look after?

Was it when he decided to secretly pay his darling off?

Was it when he now won't communicate and lies around wanking to strangers?

Can you tell me where the love and respect is, or were you making it up?

I don't think you two are on different planets - and I enjoy both of your postings, however, I would side with Vivacia in saying that the important thing is that TWO people have to want to make a marriage work.

In so many threads, like this one, you have just one person doing all the work and the other is taking the piss. To advise that person to carry on doing all the work "Oh he loves and respects you really" is very odd I think.

shockthemonkey - I very much doubt it is an emotional hold. I meant "something" that he wants to keep quiet, if he is still in minimising fallout, damage limitation mode. That's why I mentioned the full disclosure my negate this "hold".
The "something" could be emotionally hurtful (isn't it all) to OP, rather than "dark". The usual springs to mind: - compromising photo's in their home, bed, dining table etc.
Email saying: -
a) had sex with wife and then had great sex with nanny when wife has gone out (sorry if TMI).
b) DW is crap in bed.
c) Wants to/will leave wife.

In answer to your second Q - Yes my best friend and he did a lot worse.

(Just to put that quote in the actual context everyone - I was saying if DP had an affair I would want more than anything to forgive and forget. I love him to pieces, I would want everything to stay just as lovely as they are now for our family, but I would be plagued with mental images of them in bed. I wouldn't want him to touch me, let alone be intimate with him).

I wouldn't worry about her having a hold over him, (other than issues around employment and sexual harassment). I get the feeling he just can't quite bring himself to choose his wife 100%. Just needs a little thread connecting him to the OW. Insurance perhaps. Nothing more, and certainly nothing that paints her as this evil woman who Has A Hold over him.

What a dick.

JohnFarleysRuskin - I was not being literal to this post. I was merely posting a philosophical stand point. Hence I don't understand your comment "or were you making it up?"

Isee, you were simply making a point that some men who have affairs do still love and respect their wives and not responding to the Op's situation at all.

O-kay.

God save us from men online claiming to give the 'male perspective'. You're just one bloke. I would never pitch up on a male forum and give the 'female perspective' - because there isn't one, we're all different. I can only speak for myself.

Minimising the consequences of an affair is not specifically a male trait, it's common to all cheaters male and female. If they were really honest with themselves about the likely impact, they may not be able to go through with it.

Anyway, OP I'm really sorry this has fallen out the way it has. I don't see how you can rebuild a relationship on more lies.

Wow I didn't realise the forensic attention to detail on what get's written.

Apologies Twinklestein - I wasn't claiming to speak for all men, I was actually trying to articulate my (male) view. I also was not minimising affairs.

However in future I will be sure to preface all my posts with "Here are some thoughts from a particular male perspective (1 of 4 billion males). A male that is XX years old, works at yy job and has zz level of education, and this perspective is only related to myself and has absolutely no bearing on your circumstances (oh wait a minute why bother posting then).

Kiwi please let us know if our discussions on your thread annoy you. I hope they distract you and even maybe sooth you a bit. Post DD I was going mad (and physically hit my H- Vivacia does not like it but wooah that helped me a lot! )

JFR

I also think that both partners must work hard to make a relationship works. How and when:
IMO:
1- at the start the betrayed P will have to overcome her/his first knee-jerk reaction (LTB) to give the betrayer time to understand the enormity of what he/she did,
2- then the betrayer must work hard to show sincere remorse and to improve his/her behavior so as to atone for his acts.
After 1 and 2, the betrayed can make a well founded decision: to leave or stay. Now how much time do you give to stage 1 has to be decided by the betrayer. IMO if saving the relationship is very important to the betrayed then they must be willing to give more time than they could possibly fathom straight after DD- but it should not be left indefinite (that can be very detrimental). A good counselor with similar values as the betrayed can help setting a dead-line.
Like DrM says it might take time before the betrayer realizes that his behavior is BAD- if he/she didn't minimalize the impact of the affair then maybe they would not have indulged in it in the first place. I spoke about the TV program where they absolutely support affairs- in our modern society there are many sites that advocate affairs, and there are many opportunities for affairs to happen, because of the multiple job-related trips and the big open space offices. All this somehow contribute to the creation of a twisted world in the mind of people who become betrayers . (OK there was something twisted in them to begin with- no doubt this should be addressed so that they do not cheat again, but that does not make them completely bad and beyond atonement.) The betrayer lives in a twisted parallel world- and when they are caught they are still on planet cuckoo. I dare say that when deep down they love their partners it takes them even more time to come back to earth- because for them 'nothing changed' in their relationship; the affair is a complete separate issue!!. (BTW JFR I enjoy your posts and I also enjoy Vivacia posts.)
Again Kiwi it is only you who knows your H and it is only you who can decide how long you are willing to give him to come back to his senses.
Big Hugs! (I hope the baby gives you time to relax/collapse a bit)

You don't have to pay forensic attention to detail, no.

It just seems curious to turn up to make a "philosophical stand point" from the "male perspective" with little or no reference to what's going on in the thread, but hey ho.