Husband's affair: I have started!

[tomatoplantproject]

I have had my first thread deleted this morning, because I posted too much identifying information and disclosed far too much detail about my plans. However the support I have received so far has been amazing, and I have such a long way to go still.

The story so far: I discovered at the weekend my husband has been having an on/off affair for the last 6 months. He finished it before I discovered the evidence because he had decided to choose me over her.

I have been utterly devastated by this. In my anger I have taken the practical steps I need in order to help secure my long term future (I think).

My final practical step will be to get our home back for dd and me for a while. And then let the dust settle and figure out how to rebuild or recreate my life. With minimal collateral damage to dd.

Please keep holding my hand.

Tomato
Every one is built differently- psyche-wise, and emotionally-wise.
So you have different opinions here.
I repeat what you already know: I am closer to Moebius and Christina. Of course this being the case I think that they are emotionally grown up people who know to respect others' choices and who are willing to forgive provided people move forward and away from their misguided thoughts/actions (I am not yet as good as them in these domains- as the end bit of my post will show) .
Having said so, I think that I detected few positive (IMO) changes in you.
1- You are becoming more compassionate. You accept that we all make mistakes. The important is to atone from them and learn from them and become more compassionate.
2- You are becoming humbler. His behavior pushed you out of your comfort zone and you are more willing to accept that people close to you might fall- despite their striving to behave on a high moral sphere.
3- You are willing to talk with him and build a verbal and emotional bridge.
Many women will attack me here
Now the ugly me that show how far I am from the good people who are more tolerant of different attitudes:
I think that those who cannot move past the affair and keep remembering the misdeeds of their P might be people who build too much their identity on the identity of their partner. "I am great if he is great." They might also be quite insecure. "He might do it again at any time". I already trust- fully trust my husband who cheated on me. (I always had all his passwords and everything even during the affair and after and still do: but I never check on him.) Max: he will redo it so what? I will say bye and go forward.
Good Luck Tomato. (I like the good stuff you do: yoga-friends etc). I am sorry for your daughter. But she got you and you you got yourself. You are great and will become better). Good Luck

I think that those who cannot move past the affair and keep remembering the misdeeds of their P might be people who build too much their identity on the identity of their partner. "I am great if he is great" They might also be quite insecure.

It could equally be argued that some women hang onto their husbands in the face of an affair, because they're too dependent on his 'identity', too insecure to face life without them.

Sometimes what betrayed partners call 'forgiveness' is simply capitulation.

Being horrible to you during the affair is the absolute standard behaviour of someone having an affair.

My h was vile. Absolutely vile. I'm pretty sure he's still having a pretty large personal crisis.

But as for their being vile during the affair, it's nothing to do with you or what you've done. It's nothing personal! It's all part of the toxicity of the situation. Not that that makes it any better or anything.

"I think that those who cannot move past the affair and keep remembering the misdeeds of their P might be people who build too much their identity on the identity of their partner. "I am great if he is great"

Alternatively, many more people actually rediscover their own identity - and self worth - and just think I am great, and worth much more than this.
It's all a matter of personal choice.

Good point Eliana'sGranny.

I have never judged a woman on her decision to either stay or go and neither do I decide who they are or what kind of person they are depending on that decision.

I have never nor will I ever tell a woman on here or in rl to stay or go, only the person in that situation really knows the full picture and is therefore able to make that choice, not everything in life is so black and white

Tomato I have confidence that you will make the right choice for you and dd

You're all saying such good things!

At some point I need to start confronting him. You're right Eliana on that one. But I don't know if I can say what I want to say without the counsellor being there. I don't want to break down, be interrupted or argued with. I want to be heard.

If I leave it will be because either the "real" him is too far from the version of him I married, or because I really do not think I will be able to ever trust him again. Or, I don't believe that he truly still loves me, in which case the likelihood of him straying is high. I don't want to stay with him for the sake of it and then leave in 5 years time because I think the damage to dd will be so much greater then than if we split now. So in a way I want to be sure I am making the best decision possible (even if it changes in the future). I have a pretty strong sense of my own identity - I have been struggling with it over the last couple of years but it appears to be very much intact! So I don't think I will stay because it is too caught up in "us". Before we got together I lived on my own and travelled for a year on my own so that in itself isn't daunting - what is daunting is having to care for dd too on my own.

Anyhow, I am completely floaty from a long and painful massage (she even got some hot stones out, Christina. I thought of you!) which also made me cry a bit. I have another booked for 2 weeks time so another little thing to look forward to.

Ohhhh lovely, it's great that you are taking care of yourself

It's your lunch out tomorrow isn't it?

Have you got any questions in mind for when you do talk to him?

I would not only prepare my questions, but also have a think about what ways of answering I'm looking for (not just the answers themselves). So far he's not shown much sign of acknowledging the magnitude of what he's done or the hurt he's caused. I would want to see calmness, humility, sadness and a convincing commitment to earn back my trust. Impatience, anger, blame, dismissing etc would not be promising signs.

Dear Eliana's Gran- this post is written for you:
I read your story in Ophelie's thread. I do admire you a lot. You are great. You have great strength and confidence in yourself and great love for people around you. Post the affair you became the wonderful woman that was dormant in you during the marriage. Your post is very gentle and considerate. I think that your post was meant to empower and support Tomato- not to dictate her what to do. So really Gran, I was not thinking at all about you when I wrote my previous post. Sorry if it did not come that way.
There are some people around here who are on the LTB barricades for various reasons. Their past experiences or beliefs might be :
0- Their P was a zero to start with. So Good Riddance.
1- they danced the pick me up dance straight away- they did not give themselves time to heal properly and to their partner time to prove that they can redeem or not their misdeeds before deciding to rebuild or break up the relationship.
2- they have some rigid approach to affairs (I can't get off my mind his penis in her vagina- have not I read this? ),
3- they are still in the 'power struggle'/not so grown-up state of mind (if I stay that means that I am weak etc)
And I accept their reasons- Who am I to say that they are not valid or human? Who am I to judge them? However, LTB is valid for them as individuals and for their specific story- but it is not the best response to all affairs. They just upset me:
1- when they want to impose their LTB stance on others,
2- when they hammer their belief that rebuilding is doomed to failure by bringing up again and again the behavior during the affair and even past the affair (the fog might last well after the affair) or
3- when they suggest that engaging in rebuilding is beneath them as it shows weakness, dependency, selling yourself cheap (forgetting her penis in her vagina- how can you!) etc

Of course there are those whom I respect a lot: they have been left for the other woman/man- and they came out of this betrayal stronger and better. They have a lot to say: they say 'do not be afraid to leave your P if you want to leave him- you will survive and even become stronger'. And it is a very strong and empowering message. It clearly shows that engaging in rebuilding is indeed a choice- and not for the faint hearted for that matter. The affair is painful- rebuilding is a tough process in its own; in addition it seems to me that the WOMAn who decides to stay with her 'cheating' man is harshly judged and undervalued (how can she stay with a cheater? she is so weak - so dependent etc ). It seems to me that men are more supported when they forgive their wife's affair.

I am not against leaving the partner who betrayed: I am against leaving so as to prove that you are not weak, capitulating, above such an 'amoral being' etc. Leaving on a knee-jerk reaction might inhibit or slow healing. (I am absolutely for leaving if you realize post his/her affair that in fact you stopped loving him/her a long time ago and his/her affair is just the last straw.)
Tomato you are trying to find out whether you can stay and rebuild your marriage. You and only you can decide what is best for you. We posters must support you and not warn you that re-building your marriage is doomed in advance or patronizing you by suggesting to you that it would have been beneath us to give our cheating P a second chance because of this or that. This or that are absolutely valid but they are not absolute truths. Good Luck! (The ambivalent stage is the worst stage - when you have decide what to do your thinking will become easier- or at least a bit more focused- In fact you come across as very focused and well-rounded. )

Mama, Ive tried repeatedly to compose something regarding why people can find the fact their husbands penis has been somewhere else unacceptable but I just cant gather my thoughts.

You have previously said that sexually you were a free spirit, that you would go to bed with anyone, and thats ok. But not everyone lived or lives a life like that and it is very much Ok for them to say - I am not letting a penis that has been inside of someone else anywhere near me. Everyone has a right to their own standards as to what they feel is the right thing for their body, and to be honest I find it difficult at times to understand your stance on what you appear to think is a ridiculous stance for others to take when you yourself even up until last week were posting that you still have not resumed a sexual relationship with your husband months down the line from DD.

I think the fact you appear to be having such contradictory thoughts about things goes to show just what a minefield this sad sorry kind of mess is.

That you are so concerned about being heard and not shouted down or argued with makes me wonder how well he has ever treated you.

You are his wife, and he has just devastated you with his hurtful behaviour.

You shouldn't need a third party present for him to be attentive and respectful.

That's the least you should expect.

I was just thinking a similar thing to weebirdie 04. For some couples sex is an element they want in their relationship. I respect that you are abstaining from sex after your husband's infidelity, but many (I suspect most) wouldn't want to choose that.

It's a long time ago now, but I did take my then husband back. For me, it was the biggest mistake of my life. I endured six months of hell and lost myself in the process. Finally, it was me who ended it, because I realised that, despite his protestations to the contrary, he just didn't love me enough. So yes, I decided I was worth more, and time has proven me right

I agree with:
1- I think the fact you appear to be having such contradictory thoughts about things goes to show just what a minefield this sad sorry kind of mess is.
2- Everyone has a right to their own standards as to what they feel is the right thing for their body
What I am against is imposing its view on others- advising them to LTB because of an individual and VALID standard.
I like you and will thus explain you why I am not yet into intimate relationships:
Indeed before my marriage
2- I had sex for the sake of sex - and I enjoyed it
2- I had one-night stands and I am glad that I did not fall pregnant following them because I would have had to abort (men can't abort...One of our strength we women)
So why don' t I just jump into bed with him- he is a great lover (in my view) and he absolutely loves me as I have seen from all the docs . The reason is quite simple (but quite difficult to comprehend- Human nature is still a mystery isn't it?):
1- I LOVE HIM.
2- I want him to change in some aspects (nothing to do with me worrying hat he will cheat again- I am sure he will not.) I want him to do so even if I do not stay with him. As long as I am not sleeping with him he is unsure to whether I will stay with him or not. He now thinks that I am staying with him just until the kids grow. Wrong: see 1. But I want to see changes and I want to be sure that he changes because he wants to change and because it is a condition for staying together. And he is changing. It is little things.
Have a nice evening!

I'm getting even more confused!!

Bathtime - we used to be very open and I could say anything. It's since the affair started - he just became this volatile, angry person and there was never the right moment. I was also personally really low and blaming myself. However we did talk about it in January/February (which was when he wasn't seeing her and was a bit more like his old self). I feel like since finding out I have given myself a massive shake - if I had been my more normal self I would have stuck up for myself a lot more. I don't quite know how else to explain it.

Winky isn't the first to point out that having an affair can go hand in hand with being horrible at home.

Christina - yes lunch tomorrow

Vivacia - ooh good question. I'm not sure. I think immediately he may be angry since that has been his default setting recently. It's the responses after he's had a think which are important and yes I will be looking for humility, thoughtfulness, personal insight and all those good things. I actually don't mind if it takes a few weeks to get there - I'm not in any hurry. I definitely want him to be able to articulate why he chose me and whether/how much he loves me.

I haven't even thought about having sex with him again (yet). I have to sort out the other stuff first. However I couldn't have a sexless marriage and nor could he. I couldn't have an open marriage or one where he was regularly having affairs. If I were to take him back and he were to stray again I would be off, and I would spell that out.

I definitely want him to be able to articulate why he chose me and whether/how much he loves me.

Hmm, that's interesting, I hadn't thought of that. Good idea.

If I were to take him back and he were to stray again I would be off, and I would spell that out.

It's almost as if you're waiting for him to let you down again . "Fool me once..." and all of that.

I just don't know how this behaviour fits in with somebody who claims to be a moral person. It wasn't just one error

As PPs have said, talking a moral script is one thing, living it quite another. I think we all accept that everyone makes mistakes; the important thing is how we handle ourselves and others afterwards, and sadly he's not exactly covered himself with glory so far

I agree with Bathtime that it's awful to almost need the counsellor's validation in order to be heard. I completely understand why you want to do it this way, but can't help feeling it's his arrogance which has made it necessary - the same arrogance which enables him to excuse an minimise his choices

Sorry to hear about the issues at DD's nursery, by the way - it's certainly something you could have done without, but also the kind of change they often sail through much better than us, thank goodness!!

Oh fuck him off and live life without an angry, selfish influence. Leave the door open to share your life with someone who respects you. None of this game-playing, withholding sex, nonsense.

It's almost as if you're waiting for him to let you down again sad. "Fool me once..." and all of that.

I suspect the Tomato wants to end her marriage and is taking her time getting down to actually doing it because she thinks looking as if she is trying to perhaps make a go of it is the right thing to do.

I might just be overly worried about his reactions - I quite often look for worst case scenarios and then look for ways to mitigate them. So some of this could just be me shoring up my defences. And he has been so angry and arrogant in the first week or so, and I think he is starting to calm down now - there haven't been any outbursts in the last couple of hand overs, and no recent angry emails either.

We shall see.

I picked dd up from the girl I would pick to be her next keyworker and asked if she could wangle it to take her on which I think she will do. They have a lovely bond already. Fingers crossed on that one, but I did choose the nursery and not the keyworker, and the staff as a whole are good.

Weebirdie - xpost - you might be right. I haven't thought about it in those terms.

I was thinking earlier that I don't want to look back in a few years time and think I was too hasty in walking away.

Dd will be fine, give her a couple of days and she won't even notice that her key worker has changed, she will be too busy having fun

Have you got some things planned for weekend to keep you busy?

Hang on - there have been "outbursts" at handovers and angry e-mails?

That is the right attitude Tomato: no knee-jerking reaction- being perspicacious enough to discern between irrelevant behaviors to relevant ones- magnanimous enough to give him time to come to his senses and try to atone for his misguided deeds. At the end of the process you might realize that you want to leave (you now know that you can manage very well as a single mum) an that is fine: you will leave healed and you will leave knowing that you did your best. Ad you might want to stay and you will stay knowing that it was your choice to stay.
There are some ladies who do not get how I am now in some sexless relationship. Well it is temporary ladies. Sex will come when whatever remains of my anger is fully dissipated and when I feel that he changed for the best and for good. I do not know why but I feel that if I have sex and ask changes it is like if I am using sex as a tool to make him change. I want him to change because he wants to. And he is changing- although he is convinced that I am going to leave him when the kids are grown up (my poor soil he thinks that he is damned forever- I am in the middle of 'Crime and Punishment'...)