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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

What would you do if the father of your child would not marry you?

249 replies

AvocadoLime · 21/04/2015 21:04

NCed for this because people I know use MN.

DP and I have been together for 5 years, living together for 4. We rent a house, and have a seven month old son together. DS was a surprise pregnancy after a contraceptive failure, but very much loved and wanted.

I'll be upfront here, I really want to get married. My reasons are:

-I want financial protection for DS and myself. DP is carrying on in his career, I did not have a career established when DS was born, just a degree (I am younger than him) and I am currently doing a course to become a childminder when my MA runs out so that I can work and be with DS (makes sense for childcare reasons, and I want to be at home with him if I can). His earnings will likely be much higher than mine in, say, 5 years time because I will be taking responsibility for most of DS's care. I know people say that it is not romantic to marry for financial reasons, but I have DS to look out for now as well as myself so I feel I need to be pragmatic for his sake.

-There is a chance that DP could get a job outside of the EU one day because of the type of work he does. What then? We may have to live on different continents. He seems to avoid talking about this scenario ("well, we'll talk about that if it ever happens").

-Other areas of legal recognition, if one of us gets sick or dies. We would not be the others next of kin in hospital, we would not be in charge of each other's funeral arrangements and we would not be able to leave things to each other without getting hit by inheritance tax like a married couple.

-I want social recognition that we are a family, both for myself and DS. Currently DS has my last name, I would like us to all have the same name. I don't know what I'll tell DS when he's older about why his parents aren't married like everyone else's, and I certainly don't want him to worry about family stability if it can be avoided. I know that it works for some families who stay unmarried and I'm not trying to be disrespectful towards them, because my issue here most likely comes from the fact that I feel really quite humiliated that the man whose child I have carried and have lived together in a relationship for years does not want to marry me.

-Sentimental reasons. I always imagined that I would get married, and I want to on a deep level. It doesn't have to be a big wedding, we could elope abroad or whatever I'm not bothered, but I feel like it's something I would really regret on my deathbed if I never got married. Like I said above, I feel humiliated that he won't marry me. I really hate saying "my boyfriend", or "my partner". It feels like our relationship is not serious. I even avoid saying "DP" where I can when I am on Mumsnet! I know that sounds a bit silly, but I just feel a huge gut dislike of it and I can't help it.

-A nagging concern I have that the main reason he does not want to get married is to keep me disposable. He refutes this, but one of his reasons for not wanting to get married is that getting divorced is so long and ugly so I feel that this is a reason, he just does not like it being worded back to him so obviously.

(Am I missing any other important reasons? Genuine question).

Although he has made intermittent noises that he is considering it, he does not really want to get married. His reasons are:

-He has bad experiences of marriage. His parents went through a very nasty divorce when he was 10, he was manipulated by one parent into making claims about the other and he was left quite scarred by the experience. He also got married himself in his 20s and got divorced 7 years later. He says that the relationship went downhill straight away after getting married, although they had never lived together before getting married so I don't think that getting married was the only issue there. I try to be as sympathetic towards his past as I can but I also feel uncomfortable that he has lumped me and his ex into one category and assumes it would be the same with me.

-On a, well, philosophical level, I suppose, he says he does not like the concept of a marriage contract. He says that if you love each other then you should not have to have your relationship 'written into law', like you are commodities that belong to one another. He says it would be against his principals to get married.

-Divorce is long and ugly.

-He says he is happy with our relationship the way it is, and he thinks that if we got married we may become complacent toward trying to maintain it.

-He says he would be far less happy being married than I would be to not be married, though I don't see how he could quantify that quite so easily, especially since I tend to bury my negative feelings a lot and have a breezy exterior, whereas he is not like that at all.

(I have noticed on threads like this people always ask if it is the actual wedding ceremony he objects to - this is not DP's issue, he is concerned with being married, not getting married).

Anyway, we have hit upon a stalemate, basically. I don't really know what to do or how to feel about this. Sometimes I feel really quite resentful about him not wanting to get married and suspicious of his motives, and I consider whether or not our relationship has a future. On the other hand, we do have a good relationship (well, apart from this aspect of it which makes me quite unhappy IYSWIM), and I would want our DS to grow up in a two-parent household if possible, I would feel terribly guilty I think for taking that away from him unless there were any major relationship problems like abuse or cheating. Can I have some thoughts? What would you do in this situation? I probably just need to talk through my feelings as much as anything.

I wish there was something I could say to change his mind (suggestions?) but it's probably unlikely if I'm realistic.

Please don't have a go at me, I'm feeling a bit sad about all of this.

OP posts:
Elizabethreallyismissing · 23/04/2015 09:04

Actually maybe I've just hit the nail on the head there! OP if your partner knows that the current situation is making you unhappy but he just doesn't' care then maybe the relationship is over anyway?

gildedcage · 23/04/2015 09:16

Exactly Elizabeth...wouldn't you want to make your partner happy if it was within your power.

Ultimately though this is all a bit like closing the barn door when the horse has bolted. The sad thing is I think the OP knows this but doesn't want to rock the boat.

Jackieharris · 23/04/2015 09:38

I think I started a thread like this several years ago.

I was advised to have a big sit down with dp and 'lay my cards on the table'.

I didn't. At the end of the day I only want to marry someone who loves me enough to take that initiative himself. It wouldn't make me happy to go through with a wedding that I'd pushed a partner into.

Some women may be happy with getting married after an ultimatum but I wouldn't be. I'd be permanently insecure in that scenario.

Years have passed and I'm still with the same dp. In all this time he's never mentioned marriage.

I've protected myself and dcs by solely registering the dcs, giving them my name, having my own house, own bank account, no joint debts and I don't provide him with any 'wife work'. Neither of us has a pension and we will never get to the inheritance tax threshold. If I die I'm happy for my dcs to inherit from me. I get on well with pil and tbh I'd quite happily side step having to arrange his funeral.

I do feel like I've missed out on 'the big event' (I love a party) but whose life does turn out exactly as they'd imagined?

base9 · 23/04/2015 09:44

I want OP to get married b/c that is what she wants on an emotional level, and it will give her greater security if she carries on with childminding and staying home with her dc. But marriage is not a substitute for getting her teaching qualification and working.

If she married her dp, carried on childminding and divorced in 5 years, then she would still be financially screwed. Courts take into account the length of a relationship in deciding how much to award. They are currently renting, so even if they bought a house together, they would likely have relatively little equity to split in case of an early divorce. And she would be trying to figure out how to pay for a £9k PGCE course and live as a non-earning student for a year In order to get a career started. She would be unlikely to get spousal maintenance. Her claim on his pension would be negligible.

OP I think it's not just marriage you want but maybe a specific life as well, where you stay home and raise the dc for a few years

base9 · 23/04/2015 09:49

Hit post too soon! Nothing at all wrong with wanting to be a sahm, or running a childminding business to bring in some money, but you would need a dp or dh who also wants that, a family where he works to fund you at home raising his dc and then later funds your training and return to work/ career. I could be reading you all wrong, of course. Whatever you want, yoy need a life partner who wants the same and is pulling with you. I hope you are able to get the life you want, whatever it may be.

Elizabethreallyismissing · 23/04/2015 10:03

JackieHarris that is fine if you are happy with the status quo!
I wasn't happy so explained why, I'd done 14 years in your situation in a previous relationship & wasn't prepared to do it again! It wasn't an ultimatum it was a statement of fact!

Elizabethreallyismissing · 23/04/2015 10:16

JackieHarris that is fine if you are happy with the status quo!
I wasn't happy with it! I had been in your situation for 14 years in a previous relationship and wasn't going to do it again! It wasn't an ultimatum it was a statement of fact!

NewTwenty · 23/04/2015 10:21

The thought that I always find shocking in this scenario is that, even though a man might be cohabiting with a woman, he could go and marry someone else tomorrow - as could she. Cohabiting is simply that, there are no legal ties unless you construct them.

gildedcage · 23/04/2015 10:25

Again closing the barn door.

I met my DH before I had qualified. Neither of us had any assets. I didn't get married to protect my financial position, rather he declared that he wanted to spend the rest of his life with me.

He was also under no illusion whatsoever that I would live with him or share any financial arrangements prior to being married. If you want to have your cake and eat it you have to buy the cake!

Strangely enough I didn't need an ultimatum. He knew I wouldn't live with him otherwise but I was happy to continue as we were. But it was him that wanted more and the only way to get it was to marry me.

Incidentally though I have always worked, I was brought up to never be financially reliant on anyone...ever...by my sahm.

Life has shown me that, more often than not, if a man says he doesn't want to get married he means that he doesn't want to marry you.

GraysAnalogy · 23/04/2015 10:34

Some people just don't want to get married. it doesn't mean they see you as disposable. People have created their own little scenarios here to make the DP seem like a nob.

gildedcage · 23/04/2015 10:42

Its his perogative to not want to get married. Its her perogative to want to get married. Neither are wrong. There isn't comprise in this scenario.

I just can't believe that people appear to sleep walk into financial relationships and having children without thinking about long term implications.

Petal02 · 23/04/2015 11:00

But if someone doesn't want to get married, then they shouldn't expect all the perks of marriage. That's the bit that annoys me. It's "cake and eat it" syndrome.

GraysAnalogy · 23/04/2015 11:02

What are the perks of marriage?

Hakluyt · 23/04/2015 11:05

I don't want to get married. My partner does. However, because what I want maintains the status quo and what they want involves making changes, my wish prevails.

Petal02 · 23/04/2015 11:12

The perks of marriage are children and co-habiting. If a man wishes to remain legally single, then he shouldn't expect children and a live-in relationship.

Jackie0 · 23/04/2015 11:16

Exactly petal, and being each others family.
I can't imagine not being my dh's next of kin for example.
It's promising to love that person forever, that's what commitment is.

GraysAnalogy · 23/04/2015 11:16

Rubbish.

What about a woman? I have children. I have a 'live in relationship'. And no, I don't plan to get married. Because I don't have to, because I don't want to. And I'll fully enjoy the 'perks' that so called only come with marriage, because er, we don't live in the olden days.

MaebyF · 23/04/2015 11:19
Hmm

Commitment is different for every couple and every family.

For some people it will be taking vows in front of a vicar or a registrant.

For other people it will simply be the act of being together.

Oh, and you can become someone's next of kin without being married.

Petal, why aren't you suspicious of a woman who has all benefits of being married without getting married?

GraysAnalogy · 23/04/2015 11:19

I don't need marriage to show commitment. I don't need him to be tied to me legally to show commitment. He doesn't need me either.

The next-of-kin thing is here nor there because we're not in the states. In the UK we can nominate anyone to be our next-of-kin, and that includes partners.

mix56 · 23/04/2015 11:20

Lots of good advice here. particularly from thebandplayedon. You are doing the right thing asking these questions now, & not in 2, 5, 10 years time.

Realistically, one in two marriages fail now, but the mess remains. The old- fashioned reasons are sentimental & ingrained in some girls, but the real hard reasons are the financial, survival ones.

i wouldn't write a letter, I think this has to be a sit down & talk situation, with bullet point notes if necessary, I would say something along the lines of;

"I have been considering my situation, & it isn't working for me, I need to protect myself & DC. I cannot sacrifice my professional life, & earning power, on a tenuous living together set up. You have given me various half baked excuses for why you don't want to marry me. & avoided any attempt at understanding my precarious situation. I do not want to force or pressure you into marrying me, as this will cause inevitable recriminations, so I am moving out. If you decide you love me, then I'll be at Mums/other. if not, best we deal with this immediately. before I have been totally fucked over.

if he needs documentation point him to this thread.

& as PP said If he won't recognise those sacrifices and compromises in terms of protecting you financially, then don't make them.

Petal02 · 23/04/2015 11:24

Sorry - I should have made myself clear - I think it's wrong of EITHER A MAN OR A WOMAN to expect the perks of marriage without getting married.

MaebyF · 23/04/2015 11:27

But why? If you separate out the financial and legal aspects, which are not always relevant especially if there is financial independence and the legal aspects, which can be 95% fixed and, if there is financial independence, aren't always necessary - why do people need to swear in front of someone that they are 'together'?

GraysAnalogy · 23/04/2015 11:30

I'll have to go and put my child back, sell our house and tell DP we must live separately from now on then since we don't deserve the 'perks of marriage'

Or we can carry on living happily as we do and ignore old fashioned ignorant views :)

gildedcage · 23/04/2015 11:38

The institution of marriage has evolved over centuries. If it was out dated and unnecessary why have the gay community been so desperate to have the right to marry?

Ultimately the marriage contract is unique. It conveys certain rights.

People should conduct their relationships as they see fit, but its sad to see how many women find out too late that their 20 or so years partnership is worth nothing legally.

By adding dc you are changing the dynamic of a relationship and that needs recognition.

gildedcage · 23/04/2015 11:40

I'm also not sure why if a relationship is happy pre marriage why it wouldn't be afterwards