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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

What would you do if the father of your child would not marry you?

249 replies

AvocadoLime · 21/04/2015 21:04

NCed for this because people I know use MN.

DP and I have been together for 5 years, living together for 4. We rent a house, and have a seven month old son together. DS was a surprise pregnancy after a contraceptive failure, but very much loved and wanted.

I'll be upfront here, I really want to get married. My reasons are:

-I want financial protection for DS and myself. DP is carrying on in his career, I did not have a career established when DS was born, just a degree (I am younger than him) and I am currently doing a course to become a childminder when my MA runs out so that I can work and be with DS (makes sense for childcare reasons, and I want to be at home with him if I can). His earnings will likely be much higher than mine in, say, 5 years time because I will be taking responsibility for most of DS's care. I know people say that it is not romantic to marry for financial reasons, but I have DS to look out for now as well as myself so I feel I need to be pragmatic for his sake.

-There is a chance that DP could get a job outside of the EU one day because of the type of work he does. What then? We may have to live on different continents. He seems to avoid talking about this scenario ("well, we'll talk about that if it ever happens").

-Other areas of legal recognition, if one of us gets sick or dies. We would not be the others next of kin in hospital, we would not be in charge of each other's funeral arrangements and we would not be able to leave things to each other without getting hit by inheritance tax like a married couple.

-I want social recognition that we are a family, both for myself and DS. Currently DS has my last name, I would like us to all have the same name. I don't know what I'll tell DS when he's older about why his parents aren't married like everyone else's, and I certainly don't want him to worry about family stability if it can be avoided. I know that it works for some families who stay unmarried and I'm not trying to be disrespectful towards them, because my issue here most likely comes from the fact that I feel really quite humiliated that the man whose child I have carried and have lived together in a relationship for years does not want to marry me.

-Sentimental reasons. I always imagined that I would get married, and I want to on a deep level. It doesn't have to be a big wedding, we could elope abroad or whatever I'm not bothered, but I feel like it's something I would really regret on my deathbed if I never got married. Like I said above, I feel humiliated that he won't marry me. I really hate saying "my boyfriend", or "my partner". It feels like our relationship is not serious. I even avoid saying "DP" where I can when I am on Mumsnet! I know that sounds a bit silly, but I just feel a huge gut dislike of it and I can't help it.

-A nagging concern I have that the main reason he does not want to get married is to keep me disposable. He refutes this, but one of his reasons for not wanting to get married is that getting divorced is so long and ugly so I feel that this is a reason, he just does not like it being worded back to him so obviously.

(Am I missing any other important reasons? Genuine question).

Although he has made intermittent noises that he is considering it, he does not really want to get married. His reasons are:

-He has bad experiences of marriage. His parents went through a very nasty divorce when he was 10, he was manipulated by one parent into making claims about the other and he was left quite scarred by the experience. He also got married himself in his 20s and got divorced 7 years later. He says that the relationship went downhill straight away after getting married, although they had never lived together before getting married so I don't think that getting married was the only issue there. I try to be as sympathetic towards his past as I can but I also feel uncomfortable that he has lumped me and his ex into one category and assumes it would be the same with me.

-On a, well, philosophical level, I suppose, he says he does not like the concept of a marriage contract. He says that if you love each other then you should not have to have your relationship 'written into law', like you are commodities that belong to one another. He says it would be against his principals to get married.

-Divorce is long and ugly.

-He says he is happy with our relationship the way it is, and he thinks that if we got married we may become complacent toward trying to maintain it.

-He says he would be far less happy being married than I would be to not be married, though I don't see how he could quantify that quite so easily, especially since I tend to bury my negative feelings a lot and have a breezy exterior, whereas he is not like that at all.

(I have noticed on threads like this people always ask if it is the actual wedding ceremony he objects to - this is not DP's issue, he is concerned with being married, not getting married).

Anyway, we have hit upon a stalemate, basically. I don't really know what to do or how to feel about this. Sometimes I feel really quite resentful about him not wanting to get married and suspicious of his motives, and I consider whether or not our relationship has a future. On the other hand, we do have a good relationship (well, apart from this aspect of it which makes me quite unhappy IYSWIM), and I would want our DS to grow up in a two-parent household if possible, I would feel terribly guilty I think for taking that away from him unless there were any major relationship problems like abuse or cheating. Can I have some thoughts? What would you do in this situation? I probably just need to talk through my feelings as much as anything.

I wish there was something I could say to change his mind (suggestions?) but it's probably unlikely if I'm realistic.

Please don't have a go at me, I'm feeling a bit sad about all of this.

OP posts:
Jackieharris · 23/04/2015 15:24

Ladycatherine-
None of things apply to me. My DP has a v low self employed income so no NI contributions for me to claim widowed parents allowance from. He has no assets, not even a car, not a penny of savings. In my situation I really do t have anything to gain financially from marriage.

Is this maybe why the marriage rate is higher amongst middle class people?

LadyCatherineDeTurd · 23/04/2015 18:15

Which is fair enough Jackie: as I say, some of the provisions are going to be irrelevant for some people, others will think they're actively detrimental. Eg if you have property you want to leave to your children and not your partner.

Personally I don't think that explains the lower marriage rate among white working class people though (some wc groups such as low income Pakistani Muslims have high rates). I reckon a lot of it is the spiralling costs of weddings, the amount people think they have to spend.

GraceK · 23/04/2015 18:29

Haven't time to read all the threads but if he won't marry you (which I agree is horrid) then you must sort out the legal side. He may think the concept of marriage outdated but the law in this country certainly doesn't and you should both sort out the legalities for the sake of your son. If he's not prepared to make wills, etc. then I would be genuinely worrying about his long-term commitment to the relationships. Sorry I can't be more positive & good luck

JustGiveUpGatekeeper · 23/04/2015 18:45

I agree with your sentimental/social/financial reasons, but when a man says he doesn't want to get married, he means it. His bad experiences of marriage obviously coloured his judgement and even if he did marry you, he'd probably be waiting for his self-fulfilling phrophecy to come to fruition.

(I'm glad the father of my children didn't marry me, but that's another story).

My current partner who I have been with 3 years has never married and sadly I don't think ever will - he's never hinted that I'd make a good wife for him Sad.
Like you, I strongly believe in marriage, but I'm starting to resign myself to the fact I'll go down on my family tree as a spinster and I don't know why but I feel a bit ashamed, as if history will think I wasn't a good enough human to be worthy of marriage. It's ridiculous to feel like this in this day and age, but there you go.

I wish I had the courage of SylvaniansAtEase, because it sounds so logical, yet it's an ultimatum. I'm not comfortable with those.

ZenNudist · 23/04/2015 19:28

I'm sorry you're in this situation . You need to back up. I think he will propose if you leave so you should do that. Be strong!

More to the point he doesn't seem to have yours and your ds's interests at heart.

Non negotiable to get a "no-nup" legal agreement in place ASAP if he won't marry you. Seek financial recompense for the last few years as a start to your own savings. If he doesn't want to provide fairly for you and ds it speaks volumes. Get your teaching career going and make him do 50-50 childcare.

Fwiw I'd just get out and unless he has a massive change of heart, stay out.

I know you love him but this isn't worth it. If you get out now, by the time you're ready to have dc2 you will have met someone else.

AuntieDee · 29/04/2015 16:38

My fiancé has been married before and had a bitter divorce. He then lived with his ex (a different one) for 10 years without marrying her. They eventually split up and we met. Within 7 months he had proposed as he wanted to start a family with me.

It wasn't marriage that was the issue - he's been married before, and has proposed since. It's just that he didn't want to marry her.

I believe it's all about keeping the door ajar to allow a quick exit sadly :(

OP - I'm with everyone else. You would be extremely vulnerable to be a SAHM and not be married :(

somethingmorepositive · 29/04/2015 22:39

Think hard about what it would be like to be married to him and stuck living in a foreign country, especially if he were essentially forced into marrying you to satisfy spousal immigration requirements. The last place you want to be is overseas, isolated, subject to a different set of laws and married to a half-hearted partner.

user1486305061 · 25/02/2018 06:47

hi I feel for you. My situation is exactly the same except his parents have always had a happy marriage. He's never been married before so I really have nothing to go on. his reasons are the same as your partners.

My reasons for wanting to get married are similar but currently I make more money so again I don't really know where to go with this. he won't talk about it sensibly either. Any help appreciated thanks

ChickenMom · 25/02/2018 09:29

I worked with a woman who was with her partner more than 30 years. He didn’t want to get married. He didn’t have a good relationship with his family and was estranged from his mother. He died. The mother was called not my work colleague. She wasn’t even the 2nd or 3rd person to find out he’d died. The mother had him buried and to this day my work colleague doesn’t know where he is buried. They also jointly owned a house. The mother forced a sale. He had no will so the mother inherited his share of their house. My work colleague ended up with practically nothing. Having to start again in her 60’s with no closure and totally devastated at losing her partner and her much loved home. Anyone who thinks this won’t happen to them if unmarried and long term living together needs to be very very careful. Wills are a must. Legal advice and protection is a must. Be very very careful.

StripeyDeckchair · 25/02/2018 10:41

If he won't get married then you need to book a solicitors appointment and draw up wills, next of kin agreements, guardianship arrangements for your child(ren) should anything happen to one of you and a financial agreement that protects you and your child(ren) in the event of a separation.

It's either that or marriage.

TBH anyone who lives with their partner without first drawing up a legal agreement is a fool. I speak as one who was shafted by the lying, two faced piece of shit that is my ex.

KERALA1 · 25/02/2018 10:53

It's a problem if you want to be married and/or if you compromise your own interests for him / the children without the legal protection for you in place.

Agree with everyone else. You can't childmind you have to get your own career up and running. You are sleeepwalking into an extremely vulnerable position.

My sisters dh suggested moving overseas she flatly refused unless they were married. They got married. Look after your own interests op he's certainly looking after his...

Confused24 · 25/02/2018 10:54

If it was me I would take a practical approach. Get wills drawn up to cover each other and speak to a lawyer regarding a financial agreement should you separate whilst everything is amicable. If he really doesn’t want to get married you can’t force him to but you can get the legal protection arranged that you have if you were married

KERALA1 · 25/02/2018 10:58

The legal fees will cost more than a registry office wedding. Be interesting to see his response to that suggestion...

DappledThings · 25/02/2018 11:02

Zombie!

ugghhreally · 25/02/2018 15:22

I was in a similar situation albeit without a child. We debated the issue until we were blue in the face. It eventually boiled down to me having to decide whether getting married or not was a deal breaker for me. It was and I ended things. I wasn't game playing, I knew it would eat away at me and I would end up resenting him. It worked out in the end. I wouldn't recommend doing this unless you're genuinely prepared to walk away for good.

ugghhreally · 25/02/2018 15:23

Ahhh sorry just realised was old thread!!

Addled1 · 25/07/2020 23:44

How did this work out? I know it's an old thread but I'm going through similar

TaniaIvanov · 22/11/2021 11:54

AvocadoLime, what happened wit you ( if you are still aroun). I am in absolutely the same position and beating myself up for being so stupid. The only difference is he got me a ring then said he doesn't believe in marriage and we can just be engaged so I gave him the ring back.

DrinkFeckArseBrick · 22/11/2021 12:10

I think you have to plan for your sons future as though you are going to be single, otherwise if the worst happens then you will struggle financially. So don't sacrifice your career, dont go part time, make sure he pays his proportionate share of childcare costs, so if you are ever suddenly single, you aren't running around trying to increase your hours or get a better paid job and worrying about how to pay the mortgage. Either that or he acknowledges that he agrees that you being around more is the best thing for your son and he financially compensates you for your career sacrifices - this means making sure he contributes regularly to savings and pension in your name as well as equal access to family finances. But its dodgy as if he decides to stop this 10 years in then you're still 10 years behind in your career.

Eastridingclub · 22/11/2021 12:14

I think you shouldn't go ahead with your plans to do childminding under these circumstances. You're quite right. You'd be making yourself vulnerable to someone who doesn't see the need to provide tangible commitment. I wouldn't want to be with someone who could only appreciate his own needs like this.

Thingsdogetbetter · 22/11/2021 12:25

Zombie

belljar89 · 22/11/2021 15:22

OP are you still following the subject here?
If yes- how did everything end up? Are you ok?

ExceptionalAssurance · 22/11/2021 17:18

@TaniaIvanov

AvocadoLime, what happened wit you ( if you are still aroun). I am in absolutely the same position and beating myself up for being so stupid. The only difference is he got me a ring then said he doesn't believe in marriage and we can just be engaged so I gave him the ring back.
It sounds like your situation is a bit different to OPs, because you were misled. Getting engaged means intending to marry. I'd be extremely pissed off about that.
BlueBellsArePretty · 22/11/2021 19:39

@AvocadoLime

Looks like your old thread was resurrected, how are you?

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