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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

What would you do if the father of your child would not marry you?

249 replies

AvocadoLime · 21/04/2015 21:04

NCed for this because people I know use MN.

DP and I have been together for 5 years, living together for 4. We rent a house, and have a seven month old son together. DS was a surprise pregnancy after a contraceptive failure, but very much loved and wanted.

I'll be upfront here, I really want to get married. My reasons are:

-I want financial protection for DS and myself. DP is carrying on in his career, I did not have a career established when DS was born, just a degree (I am younger than him) and I am currently doing a course to become a childminder when my MA runs out so that I can work and be with DS (makes sense for childcare reasons, and I want to be at home with him if I can). His earnings will likely be much higher than mine in, say, 5 years time because I will be taking responsibility for most of DS's care. I know people say that it is not romantic to marry for financial reasons, but I have DS to look out for now as well as myself so I feel I need to be pragmatic for his sake.

-There is a chance that DP could get a job outside of the EU one day because of the type of work he does. What then? We may have to live on different continents. He seems to avoid talking about this scenario ("well, we'll talk about that if it ever happens").

-Other areas of legal recognition, if one of us gets sick or dies. We would not be the others next of kin in hospital, we would not be in charge of each other's funeral arrangements and we would not be able to leave things to each other without getting hit by inheritance tax like a married couple.

-I want social recognition that we are a family, both for myself and DS. Currently DS has my last name, I would like us to all have the same name. I don't know what I'll tell DS when he's older about why his parents aren't married like everyone else's, and I certainly don't want him to worry about family stability if it can be avoided. I know that it works for some families who stay unmarried and I'm not trying to be disrespectful towards them, because my issue here most likely comes from the fact that I feel really quite humiliated that the man whose child I have carried and have lived together in a relationship for years does not want to marry me.

-Sentimental reasons. I always imagined that I would get married, and I want to on a deep level. It doesn't have to be a big wedding, we could elope abroad or whatever I'm not bothered, but I feel like it's something I would really regret on my deathbed if I never got married. Like I said above, I feel humiliated that he won't marry me. I really hate saying "my boyfriend", or "my partner". It feels like our relationship is not serious. I even avoid saying "DP" where I can when I am on Mumsnet! I know that sounds a bit silly, but I just feel a huge gut dislike of it and I can't help it.

-A nagging concern I have that the main reason he does not want to get married is to keep me disposable. He refutes this, but one of his reasons for not wanting to get married is that getting divorced is so long and ugly so I feel that this is a reason, he just does not like it being worded back to him so obviously.

(Am I missing any other important reasons? Genuine question).

Although he has made intermittent noises that he is considering it, he does not really want to get married. His reasons are:

-He has bad experiences of marriage. His parents went through a very nasty divorce when he was 10, he was manipulated by one parent into making claims about the other and he was left quite scarred by the experience. He also got married himself in his 20s and got divorced 7 years later. He says that the relationship went downhill straight away after getting married, although they had never lived together before getting married so I don't think that getting married was the only issue there. I try to be as sympathetic towards his past as I can but I also feel uncomfortable that he has lumped me and his ex into one category and assumes it would be the same with me.

-On a, well, philosophical level, I suppose, he says he does not like the concept of a marriage contract. He says that if you love each other then you should not have to have your relationship 'written into law', like you are commodities that belong to one another. He says it would be against his principals to get married.

-Divorce is long and ugly.

-He says he is happy with our relationship the way it is, and he thinks that if we got married we may become complacent toward trying to maintain it.

-He says he would be far less happy being married than I would be to not be married, though I don't see how he could quantify that quite so easily, especially since I tend to bury my negative feelings a lot and have a breezy exterior, whereas he is not like that at all.

(I have noticed on threads like this people always ask if it is the actual wedding ceremony he objects to - this is not DP's issue, he is concerned with being married, not getting married).

Anyway, we have hit upon a stalemate, basically. I don't really know what to do or how to feel about this. Sometimes I feel really quite resentful about him not wanting to get married and suspicious of his motives, and I consider whether or not our relationship has a future. On the other hand, we do have a good relationship (well, apart from this aspect of it which makes me quite unhappy IYSWIM), and I would want our DS to grow up in a two-parent household if possible, I would feel terribly guilty I think for taking that away from him unless there were any major relationship problems like abuse or cheating. Can I have some thoughts? What would you do in this situation? I probably just need to talk through my feelings as much as anything.

I wish there was something I could say to change his mind (suggestions?) but it's probably unlikely if I'm realistic.

Please don't have a go at me, I'm feeling a bit sad about all of this.

OP posts:
TheCraicDealer · 21/04/2015 22:16

I wouldn't have had the baby if I'm being perfectly honest, that's how strongly I feel about it. DP has been warned and is on board- positive test means a trip to the registry office on my lunch break. He's forces though and I'm conscious of the slightly higher risk of death/injury/crap posting and cheaper housing on top of the points you've made.

Anyway, in your situation I think in my heart I would know that an ultimatum would be the only answer. His parents' troubled history didn't prevent marriage no. 1, which would suggest it was the hassle (and cost?) of the divorce that put him off rather than anything else. That would suggest that he thinks this is a possibility if not a likelihood. Have you suggested a pre nup, even just to gauge his reaction? They are being considered more in judgements iirc, although not hard and fast.

If you can't shake the feeling that he wants to keep you disposable and he won't agree to marriage, then I'm afraid you might be best seeing through the ultimatum and leaving. I know you've probably made your plans around DS being small, but you either have the chance at setting out on your own and building a successful independent life, or waiting until your partner magnanimously decides it's over and you're left on a restricted income with little chance to improve it over the course of the remainder of your working life. And if he leaves to work abroad what are the chances you'd successfully get maintenance if he decided to be a dick? I think giving up work to be a CM on this basis is leaving you exposed.

Patchworkpatty · 21/04/2015 22:48

As my darling grandma would say...why buy the. farm when the milk comes free.? harsh but true and a salutory. lesson for all those who think 'if I have the baby and then he'll want to marry me ! ' don't have babies with men who are not willing to commit to you. the only proof of that currently is marriage. ' no such thing as common law marriage' is a course that needs to run in every secondary school in the country. .. I would call his bluff. if it's important to you, do not compromise. I wouldn't , but otoh would never have a bay with someone who didn't. eg me to marry them.Grin

AvocadoLime · 21/04/2015 22:49

Thanks for the replies, I got pulled away from my laptop for a bit.

Sylvanians, yes, that has given me a good shake, thanks. I will think on it.

Corygal I like that positive approach, too.

OP posts:
Patchworkpatty · 21/04/2015 22:49

eg ?. beg !

AvocadoLime · 21/04/2015 22:54

Suggestions that I should have aborted my son are not helpful or welcome.

OP posts:
MrsSpencerReid · 21/04/2015 23:02

I'll admit I skim read a bit as 'd's is still up Angry but wanted to say that after 8 1-2 years and two children dp and I are getting married in 2 1/2 weeks!! He was similar in that he didn't see the point, his parents had a messy divorce. I wanted the protection and also to have the same name, I was at the point of changing it by deep poll, I have no idea what changed his mind, thought you might like to hear from someone who had been in a similar position and come out the other side Smile

AyeAmarok · 21/04/2015 23:10

Avocado can I say that well done for giving your DS your name!

That was a wise move. It gives you something of a bargaining chip, that sounds horribly cynical and I don't mean it to. But so many women give their child the dad's name, meaning they're the only one left on the outside, and they then can't change it if they regret it or they split up.

BerryMood · 21/04/2015 23:23

OP, I'm sorry you put yourself in such a vulnerable position. Unfortunately, you are trying to shut the gate after the horse has bolted. It's going to be very difficult to turn things around now. Realistically, I think your only option is the ultimatum. If he still doesn't marry you, the sensible thing to do will be to leave him to cut the losses in the future. It may be a heart breaking thing to do, but by getting rid of the non commitment partner who is taking the advantage of you you will do yourself a favour.

Bakeoffcake · 22/04/2015 00:04

I would do as others have suggested and work out of the home, building your career and making him do 50% of the childcare and housework etc.

I'd insist on a joint visit to a solicitor so they can explain all the legal implication of not being married and what needs to be done in order to protect you.

I have a freind who has been in this situation for 28 years, they have 2 DC. He also uses the excuse of his parents bad divorce, but she would really love to get married. He's very stubborn and won't budge. About 10 years ago she went out and bought herself a gold "wedding" ring which she wears on her left hand. I feel really sad for her tbh.

mrsmeerkat · 22/04/2015 00:15

I really feel for you op. I cannot understand why he is happy to live with you and have your child and not want a marry you. It is like saying its temporary I think.

Totally agree with getting your own career and stability.

WhatsGoingOnEh · 22/04/2015 00:38

Well, obviously you should never have moved in with him without being engaged... But too late to change that now.

Your ultimatum will be a bit OTT because you've discussed this situation to death with him already. He's been very open about his reasons - have you been equally as open about yours?

I think the only thing that would make him WANT to marry you, is for you to leave and for him to miss you. I've seen a billion times over how men really, truly only realise how much they need/want/love a woman when she is no longer there.

So, you pack yours and DS's things. You move back to your parents. DP (I hate that moniker too!) is shell shocked but you remain very calm. "I can no longer respect myself if I stay with a nan who won't marry me. It's humiliating. So I'm off, for my own self-esteem. You can see DS every other weekend. Thanks for a wonderful 4 years." Then you VANISH and your parents do the hangovers for you on the access weekends.

Your parents would very likely support you through this, and agree it's the right thing to do.

If he loves you, he'll be round within 2 months, ring in hand. If he doesn't love you, he won't. And you'll be free of this humiliation, and of hating yourself for putting up with this.

If you're too scared to do this - that's your answer. It means you know deep inside that he just doesnt, and never will, want to marry you.

WhatsGoingOnEh · 22/04/2015 00:42

Note: you always keep your reasons in the first person. "I just don't want to live with a man who don't marry me." You don't tell him he's wrong not to want to, or anything - you simply say that you are doing what is best for YOU. (Which he can't argue with, as he's been doing exactly that himself for the past 4 years.)

And it's true, isn't it? You do hate raising your family with a man you worry has one foot out of the door. You really don't like that. So please remember that YOU DO NOT HAVE TO PUT UP WITH IT.

Mom2K · 22/04/2015 00:43

I can understand all your reasons for wanting to get married (once upon a time, I really wanted to get married too...and I did).

That being said - splitting up (divorcing in particular) really sucks. I'm currently separated from my H and will be applying for the divorce in a few months. It is expensive, annoying, and this split between us would have happened married or not (so in that regard, I wish we hadn't been married. The expense would have stopped with drafting our separation agreement with our lawyers, and I wouldn't have to pay an extra few hundred dollars to be 'divorced' on paper).

Having gone through this now, I don't think I'd want to be married again in a new relationship - no matter how much I loved that person. It doesn't mean that I'm not committed or feel that this person is disposable - to me it's just more practical. No one expects that a relationship is going to end, but the truth is, sometimes relationships don't work out and being married or unmarried does not change this. And I don't think being married makes people work any harder at their relationship. Marriage (at least in my experience) causes the misery to drag out way longer than it needs to (or in the case of my grandparents - the just lived separate lives under the same roof until they died, which is also extremely unhealthy especially if there are children).

But I do think it's important to set up things legally so you're financially secure etc. You don't need to be married to do that - but if he's unwilling to do even this, then I'd question his motives.

Postchildrenpregranny · 22/04/2015 00:57

I think whatgoingoneh 's suggestion is excellent
I'm not sure about the law (and not suggesting you'd want to deprive your son of his father) but if you arent married I assume you have far more say in access etc ?
And yes I'd get some legal stuff in place before you make a move It might bring him to his senses

WhatsGoingOnEh · 22/04/2015 01:30

The good thing about leaving is that you are actively agreeing with him. You will be giving him what he claims to want - total non-commitment. But what you're actually giving him is the opportunity to discover what he really wants.

At the moment, he says he doesn't want marriage, but he is in reality doing a pretty good impression of someone who wants what marriage actually entails: living together every day, raising a family, giving and receiving daily support, etc. He likes that, a lot.

So this is you simply defining what marriage is (I.E., daily domesticity). And then agreeing with his claim not to want it, and therefore taking it away from him. You're calling HIS bluff, in fact. "Oops, sorry! You don't want this, do you? My mistake! We'll be off then. Here's your beloved freedom, in spades."

And then he'll get the chance to find out what he really wants. Which is probably you and DS. But he'll never get the chance to find out until you've gone. Your being there every day is clouding his judgement. He can focus on the bad things about marriage (divorce) because he's not being forced to focus on the bad things about being single (not having you).

And, your leaving is far less humiliating than issuing an ultimatum. If you got married after an ultimatum, you would always have that hanging over you. But if you walked out, with dignity, because you didn't want to be unmarried any more, and then he begged you to come back and marry him, you'll have the reassurance of knowing it was HIS CHOICE. And so will he. It will feel to him like it was his idea to get married.

LondonZoo · 22/04/2015 02:08

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Ratfinkandbobo · 22/04/2015 03:04

Tbh you've had a child with someone who doesn't want to get married. You can't make him marry you. That really is the fact of the matter.

base9 · 22/04/2015 03:27

If he will not marry you, then you need to live your life as an an independent person with a child to provide for. You have a degree but I have not seen what career you intended to get into? Do not push it to one side to be a childminder, unless that is the direction you were headed anyway. You cannot be dependent on your dp; you need to build up a career that you want and that maximises your earning potential. Stop right now with being the free childcare while he continues to build a lucrative careeR. He will need to pay for childcare (as he is the earner at the moment) while you do whatever it takes to start a f/t job that can support you and your son and that you find fulfilling. He won't marry. You have to assume he could leave at any time. Be in the strongest position you can be.

marshmallowpies · 22/04/2015 03:59

I had a long term partner who was very anti-marriage - product, like yours, of a very unhappy marriage, though in his parents case they couldn't face the prospect of going through a divorce late in life and eventually separated and moved into different homes without actually divorcing.

Anyway, in my relationship I always said that if we had DCs, I would want proper legal protection in place for them if we weren't married, wills and living wills to ensure both of us were the named decision maker in the event of anything happening to either of us.

My partner never objected to any of these ideas in principle, but deep down what he really didn't want was to have DCs and this was what drove us apart in the end. Not having children was far more of a deal breaker than not getting married for me.

And also, whilst I didn't want to insist on a traditional marriage if he really didn't want it, I hated the idea of missing out on the element of making a public commitment of our love, and having a damn good party for our friends. I would have happily had a humanist ceremony with no legal standing just so I could have the party and that moment of the person you love most in the world making a public declaration of love to you and you to then. But deep down, someone saying these things without actually going through with the legal commitment just feels hollow.

Anyway in your case there is already a DC involved so you have to think of their future and protection above all else. I could live without being married , but not without ensuring I had as much legal back-up to support my DC for their future, as possible.

TheCraicDealer · 22/04/2015 04:07

I didn't suggest that you should have Avocado- that's why I started the sentence with, "I wouldn't have", and not "you should have". I was trying to show that my feelings around the subject are equally as strong as yours and I can see why you feel this way when outwardly everything is "ok". Sorry if you read it any other way.

HellKitty · 22/04/2015 05:22

I agree with the poster saying about NOT issuing an ultimatum. You would always know he married you because you forced his hand.

Is this a never get married or a not now marriage?

Me and DP have just done our wills but we are getting married this year. Also we've both been in and out of hospital (for minor things) in the past year or so and always had each other as next of kin when getting admitted.

YonicScrewdriver · 22/04/2015 05:57

He's wrong to think that you splitting up won't be messy and expensive just because you aren't married. You have a child, there's going to be lawyers and maintenance etc. If his parents had been unmarried, would that have changed their behaviour much in the separation? I doubt it.

If he wanted to be able to walk away easily at any point, then that point was before you had a child.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 22/04/2015 06:55

"He's wrong to think that you splitting up won't be messy and expensive just because you aren't married"

I would have to agree. He probably thinks he can walk away easier as he is not married. His excuses are just that - excuses. I am wondering if you are really his "she will do for now" woman.

Branleuse · 22/04/2015 07:01

You cant push someone into marriage just because youve got a baby.

FirstOfficerDouglasRichardson · 22/04/2015 07:08

Personally I would banish all ideas of completing your MA and retraining as a childminder to take in the bulk of the childcare of your DS. You need to focus on building up your goal career (what you did your BA, MA in in the first place - your actual career ambition - not the best option in terms of childcare). You then need to advance and build up this career so you can provide for your son, not rely on your partner. Your partner will not commit to you so you have to ensure you can provide if he walks away.

I personally would give him an ultimatum if I felt strongly enough. There can be no compromise in this situation you can't be partially married, you want it, he doesn't, one of you is going to have to give up on your wishes for the other.

I would ensure though that I and I alone could provide for my son if necessary.