What would you do if the father of your child would not marry you?

[AvocadoLime]

NCed for this because people I know use MN.

DP and I have been together for 5 years, living together for 4. We rent a house, and have a seven month old son together. DS was a surprise pregnancy after a contraceptive failure, but very much loved and wanted.

I'll be upfront here, I really want to get married. My reasons are:

-I want financial protection for DS and myself. DP is carrying on in his career, I did not have a career established when DS was born, just a degree (I am younger than him) and I am currently doing a course to become a childminder when my MA runs out so that I can work and be with DS (makes sense for childcare reasons, and I want to be at home with him if I can). His earnings will likely be much higher than mine in, say, 5 years time because I will be taking responsibility for most of DS's care. I know people say that it is not romantic to marry for financial reasons, but I have DS to look out for now as well as myself so I feel I need to be pragmatic for his sake.

-There is a chance that DP could get a job outside of the EU one day because of the type of work he does. What then? We may have to live on different continents. He seems to avoid talking about this scenario ("well, we'll talk about that if it ever happens").

-Other areas of legal recognition, if one of us gets sick or dies. We would not be the others next of kin in hospital, we would not be in charge of each other's funeral arrangements and we would not be able to leave things to each other without getting hit by inheritance tax like a married couple.

-I want social recognition that we are a family, both for myself and DS. Currently DS has my last name, I would like us to all have the same name. I don't know what I'll tell DS when he's older about why his parents aren't married like everyone else's, and I certainly don't want him to worry about family stability if it can be avoided. I know that it works for some families who stay unmarried and I'm not trying to be disrespectful towards them, because my issue here most likely comes from the fact that I feel really quite humiliated that the man whose child I have carried and have lived together in a relationship for years does not want to marry me.

-Sentimental reasons. I always imagined that I would get married, and I want to on a deep level. It doesn't have to be a big wedding, we could elope abroad or whatever I'm not bothered, but I feel like it's something I would really regret on my deathbed if I never got married. Like I said above, I feel humiliated that he won't marry me. I really hate saying "my boyfriend", or "my partner". It feels like our relationship is not serious. I even avoid saying "DP" where I can when I am on Mumsnet! I know that sounds a bit silly, but I just feel a huge gut dislike of it and I can't help it.

-A nagging concern I have that the main reason he does not want to get married is to keep me disposable. He refutes this, but one of his reasons for not wanting to get married is that getting divorced is so long and ugly so I feel that this is a reason, he just does not like it being worded back to him so obviously.

(Am I missing any other important reasons? Genuine question).

Although he has made intermittent noises that he is considering it, he does not really want to get married. His reasons are:

-He has bad experiences of marriage. His parents went through a very nasty divorce when he was 10, he was manipulated by one parent into making claims about the other and he was left quite scarred by the experience. He also got married himself in his 20s and got divorced 7 years later. He says that the relationship went downhill straight away after getting married, although they had never lived together before getting married so I don't think that getting married was the only issue there. I try to be as sympathetic towards his past as I can but I also feel uncomfortable that he has lumped me and his ex into one category and assumes it would be the same with me.

-On a, well, philosophical level, I suppose, he says he does not like the concept of a marriage contract. He says that if you love each other then you should not have to have your relationship 'written into law', like you are commodities that belong to one another. He says it would be against his principals to get married.

-Divorce is long and ugly.

-He says he is happy with our relationship the way it is, and he thinks that if we got married we may become complacent toward trying to maintain it.

-He says he would be far less happy being married than I would be to not be married, though I don't see how he could quantify that quite so easily, especially since I tend to bury my negative feelings a lot and have a breezy exterior, whereas he is not like that at all.

(I have noticed on threads like this people always ask if it is the actual wedding ceremony he objects to - this is not DP's issue, he is concerned with being married, not getting married).

Anyway, we have hit upon a stalemate, basically. I don't really know what to do or how to feel about this. Sometimes I feel really quite resentful about him not wanting to get married and suspicious of his motives, and I consider whether or not our relationship has a future. On the other hand, we do have a good relationship (well, apart from this aspect of it which makes me quite unhappy IYSWIM), and I would want our DS to grow up in a two-parent household if possible, I would feel terribly guilty I think for taking that away from him unless there were any major relationship problems like abuse or cheating. Can I have some thoughts? What would you do in this situation? I probably just need to talk through my feelings as much as anything.

I wish there was something I could say to change his mind (suggestions?) but it's probably unlikely if I'm realistic.

Please don't have a go at me, I'm feeling a bit sad about all of this.

I got together with someone very young, in our late teens. He asked me to marry him in the future. Once we were graduated I was rather hoping that a proposal might materialise, but he (quite reasonably) wanted to wait until we were established in jobs etc. By then we were living in a flatshare, so 'living together' but not in a coupled-up situation. Finances separate.

By age 25 or so I had started to get seriously itchy feet. We had been to the wedding of mutual friends and he kept saying 'not yet'.

This was around the time of the first property boom and everyone was buying flats, to live in or BTL. He was quite keen to buy something together, but thankfully I knew that there were risks involved and said no, that I wasn't prepared to do that un-married. I kept having a nasty feeling that he saw the advantages of my savings and not 'me'.

At that point I was re-training and began to think about leaving. I made enquiries about living locally and began to seriously consider doing so.

I said nothing, but somehow my slight withdrawal pulled him up short, resulting in a full-on romantic proposal in Italy, diamond ring and white wedding when I was 27. It was as if the years of doubt had never happened and we were very happy.

Fast forward about seven years and, with a one year old baby, my now DH suddenly expresses doubts about us and a marital crisis ensues...

I married for love, but am now very glad to be married for financial security. I saw him almost squirm when he realised the full force of what the marriage contract entails.

A few years later we are still together, but these days I am the one having doubts.

I think that while you can make a man want to marry you, the resistance might emerge elsewhere at a later date.

Best wishes.

It is certainly possible that the OP could have a long and happy relationship witb her dp. I hope she does. But she can only do it from a position of financial security.
It really depends what the OP wants out of life and whether it matches what her dp wants. If she wants to be a sahm to a large family, then she is in the wrong relationship. But if being a working mum with a good career suits her, then it may well work. I think his refusal to marry her will be very Hard to take longterm though.

OP, how accidentally did you get pregnant? Honestly? Did a very safe form of contraception fail, or were you being a bit relaxed about that side of things? Did you secretly think a baby might bring you to marriage? You wouldn't be the first.

I was just thinking about this as I was hoovering. Your whole relationship is transitory - no marriage plans, renting a place, a (much loved) baby by accident... Really, the writing has been on the wall for a while.

If a baby won't make him marry you, nothing will.

I wish you all the best for the future. And I can promise you (from experience), that splitting up with a DC is NOT the worst thing that can happen to you. It happened to me and - after the initial shock - I thrived. Single motherhood has many incredibly lovely bits to it, and financially, I'd actually never been better-off in my life! With tax credits, my own income (albeit tiny), my cousin moving in to my spare room, and child support. I was minted! :)

Everything's will be ok in the end. If it's not ok, it's not the end.

my x WANTED a child but didn't want the risk. So whatsgoingoneh your post shows little understanding of the selfishness of this type I was pressured in to having a child against my better judgement.

I'm sure that's what a lot of people (women included, and that makes me extra sad) assume that.

But the truth was the opposite. He wanted everything. He wanted a family and a child and me, vulnerable and dependent on him. All the risks mine, and for a while, me doing a version of the pick me dance called the "marry me" dance.

Luckily I wised up and and realised he was not good enough for me.

OP - If you can go back to the PGCE do that after you finish the childminding course. I would have that childminder course in your pocket as you can do it over the holidays if you need extra income.

I would definitely go back and get your PGCE and start teaching. If you can finish your course in the next year you will be in a much better position to provide for your DC.

While I do think there is a good chance your relationship is going to be over if you give him an ultimatum, I think you should 'carry on' for now but with have your plans to leave once you are ready. If he brings it up with you I would say something like ' you have told me where I stand so if that hasn't changed I would rather not discuss it again.' I would see this time as your opportunity to put you and your DC first.

Put a plan in place and start executing it. Teaching isn't easy but I think it is far better than childminding because if you need to take a day off you can do. As a childminder you do not have that flexibility.

As for whatsgoingoneh, I have two DC which are both here due to contraceptive failures. I was pregnant when it happened so I didn't have to face the issue the OP is. I think you are over analyzing the OP. Based on what her OH has told her he doesn't value her. Thats all there is to it and why I, and many on here think she should give him an ultimatum but also prepare to move on.

OP flowers for you -

It's a long thread so I confess I have not read it all and I do not know how old you are but I know it sounds patronising but you are probably under 30.

I cannot say what I would do in your shoes but I know what I would do.

1. Stop worrying about a bit of paper you do not even have assets that you can share at the moment.

1. Not sure about the legalities but common law partners have more or less the same rights as married couples.

3.Ask yourself why are you selling yourself so short. Why not plan to earn as much as your partner or at least the max you can.

4.If money is the issue he might want you to sign a pre-nup before marraige and although in the past these have not held up in court we do not know what the future holds.

5.Put some money aside like in the old days. Save for a rainy day.

1. Take a step back and put yourself first forget about marraige and in a years time ask yourself, what do you really want from life.

Seems to me you have got bullied or caught up in something that is not real life. Whether married or not there is no safeguards about anything in ife.

Sorry to say it but chill out a bit and enjoy what you have right now. If you need to move to follow his career it is not a sin check it out you might enjoy it. You can still do your own thing ( as directed to me by my grandmother)

Life does not get any easier but it is full of opportunities.

Michal 12 - Not sure about the legalities but common law partners have more or less the same rights as married couples.
Sorry but this is not true, there is no recognition in the law for common law partners it is just a social term and gives you zero rights. Pretty sure the OP knows this from what has been said but wanted to point it out in case anyone else thinks it is true.

Second what Mrscookie says....

Hence why we had Cohab agreement.

Common law partners have NO legal rights!!!

That's a tough one. :( Personally it would be a deal breaker. I've never thought anything about people not getting married, but it isn't for me.

I would leave him.

Common law partners aren't even a thing, really. You're either married or you're not. You may as well say common law vegetable, for all the difference it makes.

Some legal distinctions between being married and unmarried:

www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/relationships_e/relationships_living_together_marriage_and_civil_partnership_e/living_together_and_marriage_legal_differences.htm

Because, in fact, the differences are very significant, I can never muster much interest in exactly why people in this situation don't want to get married. However pure their objections, there's still the potential for their partner to be left up shit creek because of their principles. I'm not saying OP should or shouldn't give an ultimatum, but I do know the path she's planning isn't a smart one. Either get married or maintain your earning potential or both, but not neither. And go to a solicitor, to pay more than a marriage would cost to put in place some of the protections. Make sure he pays for it.

While I am not advocating LTB in this situation, I think it is smart to have some financial independence or at least a decent source of income regardless of marriage or not. Like I stated earlier, spousal support is rare.

I think that you are in a difficult position because presumably you are in love with your dp. You will tell yourself that he will never cheat, leave, treat you badly. ..because no one enters into a relationship thinking our oh is a royal shit.

Ultimately though your dp appears to have all the perks of being married without the actual marriage. If he wants to live as a married man then he needs to step up.

I've been very vocal about how I feel on the financial side. You should have some serious words with yourself if you don't protect your financial independence, you're bright, don't limit your potential. It pains me greatly to hear of young women limiting themselves, there are loads of jobs, options for people with good academic records, not everyone can claim this.

The humiliation would come, not from being a single mother, but putting your life on hold while he decides if there's anything better about to come along. If marriage is important to you do not compromise on it. Don't beg, its insulting to you both.

From the little I've heard of your dp though I think you deserve, and could do, alot better.

Yep, I am all too aware that common law means nothing in our legal system!

Thank you for all of your kind words, you have all been very helpful. I think I will write down my feelings and have a very frank discussion with him and see what happens. I will finish my childminding course, because it is an immediate means of earning income and it provides experience working with children, which I would need to do to get into another PGCE anyway. But I will definitely not become complacent toward staying in the childminding role if we do not get married, because it is obvious that that would be pretty daft.

You shouldn't be complacent even if you do get married. Continue your earning power. Marriage does solve some legal problems but its not the be all end all holy grail either.

Have you not read the threads of married women who want to leave their marriage but can't because have no source of income?

LTB

Don't have kids with someone if your reason for not marrying is 'divorce is a horrible thing to go through'. You can still split up even if not married and then you still have to go through the ugly process and it impacts on the kids in exactly the same way as it would if you'd been married. No gain for anyone except the person with the money.

I didn't issue my partner with an ultimatum as such but I did make it clear that if I wasn't 'good' enough to marry I wasn't't 'good' enough to live with either and continuing in such a relationship would make me very unhappy! I'm getting married in a couple of weeks!
I'd lived with someone previously for 14 years and had always wanted to marry him but it didn't happen! No way was I putting myself through that again!
I hope things work out ok OP, but don't settle for second best!

Some posters flippantly type "leave the bastard" as though mocking the posters who suggest that you leave to being your own life.

But it's not about him being a bastard.

It's that realisation at 2 am that you have no pension, a very young dependent and you are so vulnerable........ and that your life's work (raising a child and more I'm sure) could be given over to building up somebody else's home, somebody else's savings, somebody else's career, life, nest........

Start your life from scratch and within a couple of years you will have more than nothing which is what you have now. If he won't look after you, you have to look after you. Start looking after yourself financially, it'll be a slow process but you can't do that with him.

Feather your OWN nest from now on. I spent 8 years feathering my x's nest.

Elizabeth, did you move out?

I think there are two types of men in this situation, men like your fiancé who need a push and men like my x who think it is selfish to ask for anything at all.

My x's parents divorced and to look at them now in their equal sized houses, with their equal sized cars and similar levels of disposable income it is hard to understand why my x feels that his father was screwed by the divorce. But that is what he seems to believe. A woman should raise children for nothing more than a temporary roof over her head and the ideal scenario is that she be perpetually at her master's mercy.

Elizabethreallyismissing, that's very similar to my own experience. I laid my cards on the table from the start and I said I wouldn't move into his home until we were married.. We spent a lot of time at my apartment and he basically lived with me, but I wasn't going to give up my home to be a housemate.
There is a time for setting out hopes , expectations and deal breakers and I think the op's problem stems from the fact she left it too late. She is already there and has his child .
Take heed single ladies

I'm going to repeat what a poster advised on page 1, because it's the most realistic. Never mind the reasons he doesn't want to get married. You need to accept he doesn't and correct the current financial situation, where your earning power is diminished while his isn't affected.

"21/04/2015 22:09 AyeAmarok
And if your DP won't get married, then he'll need to support you on building your career instead and take a financial hit himself. He goes part time so he can do nursery drop-offs, cover sickness, can't go away on business trips, while you build your career until you're on an even footing."

No, SanctimonyTree I didn't move out, he was living with me. At first I thought he would propose quite quickly but he didn't and I started to feel miserable about it, he knew my previous history!
I would have been devastated to finish it but I would have. It would have been a constant cause of resentment so I told him how I felt and said he would never want me to be unhappy & proposed a couple of months later!