To not want custody

[SilentPonderings]

Background:

10 year marriage.
2 kids (aged 3 and 4).
Marriage breakdown imminent.

I was a SAHM for 4 years. Hated it (pnd, amongst other things). Now I work fulltime - it is definitely where I belong. Wage is low but with great opportunity for advancement (I'm being trained).

AIBU to not want custody of the children? It seems very atypical for a woman to declare this. Essentially I want to take the traditionally masculine role of moving out of the family home and seeing the children at the weekends.

"I can enjoy 15 minutes of play at a time. It's probably never my first choice of how I'd like to spend a particular 15 minutes, but my life overall is better for DD insisting on her quota. Having the weekends free would guarantee some time to do whatever I most enjoy."

LOLOLOL! I have four children and the idea of having more than 3 minutes when I'm on the loo to myself at the weekend is quite frankly laughable. And I have a very involved and committed partner. I do wonder what on earth people expect life to be like.

nickersinaknot (these comical usernames are a blessing!), I think you make an interesting point re: not moving away. I could stay within this town and continue to commute to work. In reflection, I guess I was basing my suggestion of moving into the next city, partly in response to my instinct to escape the toxicity of the situation, which, in hindsight, was a selfish instinct.

It is always best to be honest.

If you can get help for your depression, of course you should get it. But its not a given that every woman has deeply maternal feelings. As we know, a lot of men find it easy to walk away.

you are highly unlikely however to get every weekend unless that is something your ex agrees; I wouldn't, in his shoes. I wouldn't want the drudgery of the week time routine and then no opportunities to have any fun on the weekends.

the bog standard routine for separated parents is every other weekend, possibly one evening in the week and half of school holidays, Christmas alternating between parents.

the new law tries to take the sting out of 'residence' and 'contact' by just referring to orders where 'the child shall spend time with...' and then setting out the times.

The law will enforce the rights of a parent to spend time with children - if that is what the parent wants. But the law will not force a parent to spend time with children if the parent doesn't want it; for obvious reasons.

So I would say, always be honest but equally bear in mind that it is likely to be emotionally damaging to your children to feel that they were rejected by either of their parents. So hopefully what ever arrangement you can come up with will be one that reinforces the message to the children that they are loved and wanted.

There are probably infinite variations on how you could achieve this and they certainly don't have to revolve around a mother giving up work and having the majority of time with the children. That however is seen as the 'usual' way so you are definitely going against the tide.

Update: He's agreed to mediation via Relate. Hoping to get an appointment within the next day or so. I feel relieved. We need this third-party input.

I don't think there's anything wrong with a mother being the NRP - my own DM was and although I sometimes wished she was around more or had a stroppy teenage 'I want to live with Mum' moment it worked very well for all of us and I have a good relationship with both of my parents.

But I do think YABU.

If you have every weekend then basically your DH will have to find and pay for full time childcare for 2 preschool age children all week while he works, do all the crap stressful morning and evening prep stuff and basically get very little quality time with the children.

You'd get all of the relaxed weekend time to go have fun - you wouldn't even need to wash their stuff ready for next week.

You're offering to pay 'the legally required' or bare minimum matainance - from your low paid job and fair enough you probably can't afford much more but after sticking your ex with all the week day care and associated child care costs that would stick in my throat a bit.

Personally I can't say I blame your DH for pushing for 50/50 but you're right, he can't force you to have them. Maybe consider what would be a fairer balance of time though that might make him be more amenable to your plan.

sliced reading through the thread op hasn't sorted her self out though as she?

I went to go live with my father because of my mothers depression when I was eight. It robbed everyone around her of a normal heakthy home and upbringing. My step father and half brother had to stay and endure years of her being emotionally vacant and empty because of her 'depression'. I won't go in to the amount of times she was sectioned or tried to hang her self! When I went at weekends I could tell she couldn't wait till I left as 'there were too many people in the house'

So yes I do find people that have MH that fail to get it sorted indulgant because if they actually give a shit about people they would be back at the GP.

The op owes everything to her kids. They did not ask to be born. To come on here and ask for approval to walk out on her kids is indulgant .

Please get some counselling and help for the pnd through your GP. You sound very much as though it has never gone away.

For the children - no one seems to want them. I hope for their sakes that at least the grandparents do. The damage done to their self esteem will last a lifetime if they ever figure out that their parents are fighting each other NOT to have them.

I think you'd benefit for some solo counselling for your depression as well OP

That's great Silent. Although it's not a magic bullet, it's a start. Would you consider getting help yourself for your own mental health too?

A friend of mine did this 2y ago, her dc were 4&5 at the time.

When she announced this was the plan, I judged and I judged hard! She explained that she had never felt equipped to be a good mother...she wasn't naturally maternal and although she loved her children she just knew her ExH was a far better parent for them.

Despite this I still judged her hugely (though, I was (still am) struggling with infertility so my judgment may have me a little screwed)...2y on and I am so sorry that I judged her! Her dc are thriving, absolutely thriving...she sees them one or two days a week and every Sunday....everyone is so so much happier....the change in them all is wonderful to see.

If you really feel this is what you work, them do it

What are your husbands terms??

That doesn't sound good.

Also not good that he "threatened" to take the kids but backed down when it became a possibility!

Are you sure that they'd be better off with him??

Flissypix Sleeping on the floor - reading that broke my heart - the things we do! I just have to hear a few verses of "How long will I love you" and I weep like a baby, as the DC love me singing that song to them.

Please put your children first it's only for a short time and someone has to love them.

Absolutely. That's what I am attempting.

Mrsjayy I'm open to individual counselling. I embrace self-improvement.

Yanbu to feel he is the better parent.

I do think yabu to want them every weekend. Meaning your ex gets to do all the school stuff and week to week work and you get every weekend to do fun stuff. Surely he will want weekends too.

My instinct to escape the toxicity of the situation
What is toxic in that situation Silent?

I'm worried that everyone seems to be happy judging you for wanting to escape a situation that is truly painful and awful for you. That you will stay in an unhappy marriage on your husband terms (could you tell us what they are btw??).
That you are going to bottle up your unhappyness and your depression and that's it's going to do you more good than bad. To you but also to your dcs.

Fwiw, I've been in your situation except that I really didn't think that DH was able to look after the dcs so in my eyes I had no other choice than stay.

YY to move closer to your current home.
I would also say that it is quite possible that, once dust has settled down, that you finally have some breathing space, you will look at what you do with your dcs, at your relationship with them in a different way (I know I did). You might not want to escape them so muich as wanted to escape your relationhsip with your DH.
You will also find that, as your dcs are growing up, your relationship with them will change too.

Finally, why is your DH npot happy with mediation? Why is he not proposing counselling or whatever way to make the relationship better. He seems dead set on the idea that all the responsibility is YOUIR fault, that things should be done his way (or you have to leave which he doesn't seem to believe you will)

I fear the things you have described TheMagnificientFour - that by staying I'll get depressed again and the kids will stop thriving. I'm sorry that I can't disclose his 'terms' as it will out me. I've discussed them on here before under a different name and everyone said LTB.

OP, is there someone else? I have no reason to think there might be, beyond a feeling.

Being a SAHM to small children must have been very hard, OP. I was very fortunate to be able to work part-time and I knew it was necessary for my child's welbeing as well as mine.

I'm all for children staying with which ever parent is more into being a parent, regardless of gender, but what is sad from your post is that your husband doesn't want them.

So I don't think it is a good idea that you move to another city because unfortunately your husband does not sound that great and your children will probably need to spend some time during the week with you.

Being a SAHM to small children can feel like a thankless task especially when you have a partner who doesn't appreciate what you do, criticizes everything and then gets to enjoy the time they spend with the dc because the are not doing the actual caring and I wonder if that is the rut you have got into. I can tell you from personal experience that being a single parent can not be compared to being a SAHM in that position it is far far better and easier. Mine was an abusive arsehole but I couldn't see it when I was in the middle of things I just felt insignificant and worthless, the stress and agro in the situation where what he put there and was nothing to do with the children but I could only see that by being forced to take a step back and re-evaluate everything.

Glad you've reached agreement about mediation, OP.

I'm trying to be kind here - your language sounds detached and over-formal, and that may be a result of your current mental state. If that's the case, I hope you'll make treatment a priority over moving away.

I cannot for the life of me see how you can support a second household if you're on a low wage. How will you cope financially? How will there be anything left to support your children? That doesn't mean you shouldn't move out, of course - if you're being emotionally abused, then you must go. However, that would mean you were leaving your children to be brought up by an emotionally abusive man (or more likely, his parents).

You have only been working out of the home for a very short time, you have a low income (albeit with prospects) and you are probably still suffering from depression. Not a good time to be making major decisions which will impact hugely on your young children.

I would say exactly the same to a man. In fact, on MN, a man would immediately be asked why he was leaving. If he refused to explain (as is your right, and would be for a man), he'd be accused of having another woman. If he said he was depressed, he'd be told to get himself some treatment and not abandon his partner and children.

Finally, in the last post I've just read you say, by staying, I'll get depressed again - so do you think your depression has lifted only temporarily at the thought of an escape? If that's the case, it needs to be treated properly before you make decisions which will affect your children in such a drastic way.

Take care

I've read a few pages but NTFT

OP - All anyone can do here is to give suggestions from the little information we know. Considering what you have said about the PND, and your feelings about being a SAHM, I would really strongly advise you to consider a 50 50 split.

The main reason for this is that when you were a SAHM, you were in the midst of PND, clearly very unhappy in your relationship, and had no distraction from this.

But the situation will be different after the split - having a life aside from the children and the home (your job), hopefully being much more relaxed and content when no longer involved with your husband/partner, and generally...happier overall.

Maybe I am wrong - only you will know that really - but I honestly believe that in a different environment, and with your job, you may feel differently about the time spent with your children. Being the carer for half the week is still a massive change from being a full time SAHM.

So just to recap...
you have pnd.
you were a sahm for 4 yrs
you don't think your parenting is a good as dh even though presumably he hasn't been a saHd.
now you are back at work you believe your parenting is good when you are there. And you are still a resident parent.
whatever issues there are in your marriage mumsnet has advised ltb.
A fee wiser and more switched in posters are picking up on manipulation by your dh over dc.
you do come across as loving them despite the op.
so...what role is your dh planking in allowing you to think you would be a bad parent and unable to cope when you have been coping?
Why could you not be re for dc with childcare? They would still get the 20%good parenting.
Mine are older, I work 3 days a week in a demanding job. My parenting after work can leave a bit to be desired because I am so tired. I hope Iake up for it at other parts of the week. The point I'm making is how high is the parenting standard you have set?
Again I just don't think you should make hasty arrangements that you may regret.
Leaving him is fine,I imagine everyone worries as to how they will cope by themselves and if they are up to it you might surprise yourself at how well you cope.
(Is he a cause of the depression?)

Re =rp

Op, you don't have to answer this but is your DH verbally abusive towards you? The reason I ask is that you have mentioned the situation as being toxic.

Joint counselling is not a good idea in an abusive relationship as the abuser will use it for their own ends. I think you would be better to go for counselling on your own to deal with your pnd as you sound depressed. Get some help on your own before you make any further decisions. Have you seen your GP recently?

YANBU to not want 'custody' if it's what you believe is best for your children (and your ex is happy with it), you see them often, and pay maintenence.

I think a lot of the responses on here are sexist. OP wants the children almost 30% of the time (yes, every weekend is not fair on their dad but that's something they need to work out between them), she's said she'll pay maintenence and that they will be living with their primary carer. If it was the other way round it would be considered a normal set up so I'm not sure why there's so much judgement.