Can a marriage be saved from a passionate affair? UPDATED

[Truly40]

After lurking on here a while, and re-reading most of the advice and support given on the original thread to my situation last year, I've decided to 'come out' and update all those MNers who invested their time, and gave wise words of advice which I wasn't ready to accept and didn't have enough of a rational viewpoint to value at the time.

DH did decide at the time to stay with me and end the affair. But we just carried on with the hysterical bonding, and carried on with the frantic work / family life without addressing the underlying issues within our marriage, and as someone previously said while I was busy trying to repair the relationship, I ignored the fact that I couldn't repair the man.

It's not a suprise then, that the affair re-started earlier this year - that DH had not maintained distance from OW, and 5 weeks ago he walked out on me and the children following a final ultimatum from the OW.

They have already moved in together, and whilst it is early days on the emotional rollercoaster that I am now on, I am at least able to have some clarity and respite from the intensity of last year's situation.

I have now started counselling on my own, the children have been told he is working away at the moment whilst the initial dust settles, and he visits on the weekend, and is at least now spending quality time with them, and perhaps starting to realise the consequences of his reckless, selfish actions.

I don't know where things will go from here, but my priority is to gain strength and some self-respect to make the right decisions for myself and the children.

He is already expressing doubts as to his decision to leave, saying he will come to counselling, and that he is appalled and ashamed at his behaviour.

Whether this is guilt and self-pity or genuine remorse, remains to be seen in his future course of action.

I just feel ready to let those Mners who followed my thread last year know the outcome, and to acknowledge that in retrospect a great deal of sensible and wise advice was wasted on me at the time.

I hope that I will be a wiser, stronger person dealing with the situation this time around.

Right now - I am okay with him seeing the kids here until better arrangements are made, and the kids are comfortable with it.
I do have to tackle and support DD knowing what's going on first - before I can properly deal with arrangements for seeing them....

I am managing just fine without him - I'm sorting out finances, I'm asking for the utilities etc to be transferred over to me, I'm making childcare changes to save money.

I am now working - I am doing contract work which I can fit in around the DCs and can do as much or as little as suits me - so obviously now I'll be taking on more!

I don't want to ACT like I couldn't care less - I want to know I genuinely couldn't care less - and not so he'll pick me.

I did the pick me dance last year - not doing that again. I now have drawers of matching lingerie that is wasted!!!

Last year I was sitting around, pining, desperately using every strategy for him to stay, anxious for any text or call.

I am only communicating with him by text about the children, and seeing him only when he visits the children.

I don't want him to choose me over OW - if he wanted to come back - he would have to finish with OW, go to counselling, be on his own, move jobs, show me through his actions, not promises that he wants to make amends - and that he would be totally and definitely committed to me and to the children - and only then would I decide how I felt about him.

And let's face it - that's not going to happen unless he turns into a Saint.

Whilst he's a total tool, and gone totally off the rails - he has always been a devoted, loving dad - and I do want to try to co-parent and have an 'amicable' separation - because I know what a bad separation can feel like.

I am starting to kick-ass and tell him he's letting the kids down, that I don't want him back, I've repetitively told him that he can't just come if he changes his mind, but I have to tread gently until I know the kids are aware and okay.

I'm not going to tell DD, then pack her off to school the next day. It needs to be over the weekend - and she'll also have my family here if she needs an extra hug too. I am not going to give him any choice, or wiggle room - he can either talk to her with me, and then talk to DS1 in more detail or he can leave it to me.

I actually pity him - which is quite an empowering position to be in - because I realise that he's actually out of control, and I am getting back in control - and if I want to see him or talk to him, I can, and if I don't want to be around him - then I can make that clear too.

Truly40 darling,
It seems to me that many of actions are based on what impact they will have on him. That must stop if you want to be a strong woman and strong mother.
The kids: I understand that you are a bit confused and do not know how to behave with them. Your kids that are from your previous relationship see him as their father and love him and you do not want them to go through the same pain they went through when you broke up with your previous P. The one/s you have in common are too young and you do not want them to go through what your other kids went through. His kids from his previous relationship love you and you do not want them to be torn away from their father.
However the kids can cope well with break up if:
1- you tell them the truth (in age-appropriate way)
2- are OK if the parent who will have them in custody (you) is OK.
3- the dad will continue to be their dad. Knowing about their friends/schools/ doing stuff with them etc
4- there is a routine of visits: the dad does no pop up whenever they miss him- because they will then play up with this all the time. They will all the time miss him. They will never cope from his departure. They might think that they are guilty for his departure because they did not show him how much they love him etc. They might even think that you want them to miss him so that he comes home.
So NO NO NO you do not wait for him to be present to tell the kids about your separation. NO NO NO you do not allow this announcement to be painful to the kids SO THAT HE WILL SEE HOW MUCH HE HURTS THEM.
By doing so you HURT THE KIDS. They might feel that they should not cope with the separation because by doing so they might jeopardize a chance of him coming back. KIDS DO TEND TO BLAME THEMSELVES FOR BREAK UPS anyway- so do not strengthen this feeling. Fight against it. > For God Sake: Tell the kids that they must feel OK even if you are not together because each of you love them deeply and all you want is that they feel OK and free to love each of you SEPARATELY. You tried your best. There are people that you can't save from themselves-

Now please do not be this kind of person. PLEASE ACT without thinking how this will impact him. Do not sleep with other men or change your style just to show him something or the other. You must care of what he thinks as you care about what a stuffy dusty dinosaur in a dark attic in a museum thinks. When you choose an action, write down the reasons why you chose it. If one reason is that 'so that he can see/feel/understand or whatever this or that', then discard this action- flush it in a mental toilet.
Look for another action where the main reasons to undertake it have nothing to do with the impact it might have on him.
DO WORK ON SORTING OUT YOURSELF - ON NOT BEING MISGUIDED BY YOUR LOVE OF YOUR KIDS- and ON CHOOSING COURSES OF ACTIONS FOR REASONS OTHERE THAN THE IMPACT THEY MIGHT HAVE ON HIM .
It looks as if for years you were thinking and acting only in function of how your actions and thoughts impacted him. This must stop.
Use your counseling to rebuild your way of thinking and of choosing actions. Good Luck

"Truly" I feel for you so much. I know exactly what you're going through. My husband told me of his affair last July. For 6 months he promised me it was over, that it was all a terrible mistake, that I was the love of his life. We had the hysterical bonding, went to counselling, booked holidays and planned our future. He left me in January for OW and moved in with her the very same day. For the first few weeks I wanted him back but now I realise that nothing he could do now could ever make up for the pain and hurt of what he did to me and our family.

I'm three months down the line and still have some terrible times where I just wish I could wind back the clock but I know that I'm worth more than someone who thinks I'm second best. You are too. I have my dark days but now I know that they pass. I no longer fear them and embrace them as I know that they take me one day closer to healing.

It sounds like you are incredibly strong and doing really well. I don't regret the months that I fought for our marriage. I did all I could to save my family and I can always hold on to that. He will live for ever with the knowledge of what he did to our family.

The drawers of lingerie are not wasted! They are for you- wear them for yourself and feel like the strong, beautiful and confident woman that you you are.

In my darkest moments I count my blessings - in my case I have had the love and support of friends and family and I have found that truly uplifting. I also think of all the compromises I made during the 25 years of our marriage and plan for my new future which will be built around things that I want to do.
Big hugs to you.

Truly I wish you had posted your last post first. That actually makes it totally clear where you are at. Well done you. Sorry if I misunderstood. You are doing very well. Totally agree that he will have to jump through a lot of big big hoops before you even consider if you want a future with him. x

Colour - Oh, I'm so sorry for the awful time you have gone through. At least I went through the worst of this last year, so this time I am a bit more resilient, and able to get up and get on with life on those dark days.

MaMa - your post has made me cry, and given me a lot to think about. Thank you.

I held on and fought for this marriage, because I would have done almost anything for my children to be brought up in a loving, secure home by a mother and a father. But I do know that I can do that as well, if not better, on my own. I need to read it over and over so that I can really absorb your words of wisdom and advice.

DS1 sounds pretty clear about his views. At his age he deserves the facts and will take his own decision about seeing his stepfather (or not). DD is bound to suss out about her stepfather and OW eventually (and DS1 should not have to be complicit in lies) so should probably be told an age-appropriate version of the truth too.

You do need urgent legal advice about your finances and home and stuff.

Truly
WE do feel through your letter that you are a wonderful mum. WE do feel that everything you did was for them the kids. You tried to accommodate him so that your kids have a dad. You thought about the impacts of your actions might have on him- because you wanted him to stay and be a dad to his kids and provide a secure background to the kids. Your love for your kids and his kids has blinded you. Truly they are lucky to have you. But by letting him influencing your actions, you are not anymore yourself and you are losing themselves and letting out your kids. You know sometimes tragedies are a blessing in disguise: it is good that you did big efforts to keep him, and it is good that he left AFTER you did all these efforts. Now you can see clearly that the only true way for you to provide a loving and secure background to all your kids (including his kids) is by exorcising him out of your skin and locking him in the attic, and finding/building back your true you. It is tough but I am sure you will get there because there is a big love in your heart for your kids (all of them) and because you are strong (you showed your strength when you tried last year to still keep him and make him happy). Again your love for your kids misguided you. Luckily he left and freed you from his shadow. You shall now regain your strength and your true self- for you for your kids. We all believe in you. I hope you will have a compassionate and clever counselor to guide you. We are here for you. It is a long and tough journey but it is worth it. Good Luck! Hugs.

truly

Me df cheated on my DM. My DM, wanted him to be the one to tell us. They were both waiting for us when we got back from school. Unheard of, as they both worked ft.

My dad was crying and couldn't tell us and I seriously thought he had cancer. I started to cry and asked if he was ill. My DM told him to tell us. I was 15. My db was 12.

We wasn't told why he was moving out, just that he was. I thought there was only 2 reasons, he'd hit her ( which I know he would never do) or he's cheated.

My db just saw my df in tears and my DM strong. He hated and blamed my mum. And she still wouldn't tell us. She didn't want to be the one to knock him off his pedestal for us. In the end I outright asked her and then told my db.

It was very traumatic. It would have been a lot easier if we weren't ambushed and told half a story. Although I understand my dm's reasoning at the time.

We both adore DM. He cheated on the sat, confessed on the Tues and was out by the Thurs! He only lasted that long because he threatened to kill himself (only found that out a couple of years ago) and my kick ass DM, phoned the gp on him and got them round. The gp went into the bedroom to talk to him and my DM waited in the living room. The gp tried to tell my DM to give him a second chance, but she told her no way. She hadn't made all them sacrifices for him and the good of the family for him to treat her like this.

That was 1989. Now myself and df, have limited contact with df. We don't hate him or fall out, we just see him every now and again. I see DM, all the time, she is my rock and I don't know what the hell I would do without her.

I'm just telling you this, as it may help, if it plays out in a similar way.

What is the best thing to say to the children?

I am thinking that we say he has been working away a lot, we love them hugely and whilst we love each other, we are having some difficulties in our relationship, and we're not sure we want the same things from life, we've grown apart and he's going to move out for now. And they will still see him on weekends, just as has been happening in the last month - and we don't know what will happen in the future, but they can talk to either of us, and ask any questions which we'll try our best to answer.

Is that the best approach to stay quite neutral, not apportion any blame and say we are still a 'team' when it comes to being their parents?

I wouldn't personally. I wouldn't want to bad mouth my dp to our dc's if we split up, but I think you have to weigh that up against being truthful.

I would probably tell the truth, but not put any emotion into it. Really matter of factly.

Daddy has met someone else, that he wants to be with instead of mummy, but we both still love you and we will both still be your parents, we just won't be living together.

I wouldn't put any tone on it. I would just say it, as if I was telling them something completely neutral/non threatening.

Sorry 3 of my dc's are under 5. Mum and dad rather than mummy and daddy!

Just tell them the truth

Agree with sass.
They (particularly the older one) will find out soon enough he is seeing someone, and probably that there was an overlap.
You don't have to mention cheating, but I think you should include that he has met someone else.

I would say daddy has fallen in love with another woman. We tried to make it work for a long time but in the end he decided he'd be happier with her.
He is still your dad and adores you and loves you very much and will see you as much as he can.

I wouldn't say what you're suggesting because it's not true.

He is already expressing doubts as to his decision to leave, saying he will come to counselling, and that he is appalled and ashamed at his behaviour.

oh, he is a tosser. Best get rid. Far far better for your children.

Only the truth empowers kids. Include your feelings. It is OK I think. You can tell them you did your best- both of you but he eventually decided to move in with her. It hurts you but you will eventually be OK. Voila. C'est la vie. We do not always get what we want in life but we must be there for ourselves to hug ourselves and get up and move forward. Resilience. Use this word when you talk to the grown up among them. Deep connection with one-self: that is also another key component in moving forward. Talk about it to the older kids. To all of them: tell them that things happen in life. Their dad moved out to the OW. Both of you tried hard for a year to remain together. He made his choice. It is fine. It hurts you but you will be OK. You are not anymore husband and wife but you are still and will always be their parents, and you will always love them dearly, and they kids can always love both of you and each of you (important that you the hurt part legitimate their love for their dad.)
Truth as full as possible (feelings, happy or sad must always be included- otherwise kids imagine god knows what happened to you that makes you so sad, or worst they might think that feelings are not part of relationships). Everything in an age appropriate way, of course. (MAybe involve the school to help you break the news to the little ones in the best way possible. The school staff will also give a special attention to the kids. It will speed up their recovery and adjustment to the new situation). The kids must be able to explain as clearly and as accurately as possible to their friends what happens in their family (feelings included). Good Luck!

then I also think he's treated OW quite appallingly, and is still not being truthful to her

I really don't think you should give a flying fuck for her.

Your thread last year roused such dormant feelings in me -- my mother's pathetic martyrdom 40 years ago when I was 15 and my father was shuttling between my mother (and his children) and the waste of space OW. Who did all the bullshit like threatening suicide and so on.

As I said in your last thread: I came out of that situation damaged, after my father was toing & froing and my mother was doing all the wifework of trying to "save the marriage."

Now I have little respect for either of my parents in matters of relationships: they do not have the right to advise me, as they were so incompetent themselves. That's OK now I'm a parent of a young adult myself yikes how did that happen . But in my teens & twenties I really suffered from the lack of trust I had (although I couldn't have articulated it that way) in the model of a marriage they offered, and I also suffered from the fact that I could not accept any guidance from them. As far as I was concerned, they had no wisdom or experience to offer me. This was deeper than simple teenaged rebellion it was a deep sense of insecurity, lack of safety. I never expected to be cared for in a relationship, and I think this was a result of the way I saw my mother behaving, and my father treating her.

This may be tough to understand, but it's the experience of a child in something like the situation in your family.

Remark:
When I said tell the truth and include feelings- I meant your feelings, not his. I know how a good mother you are and you do not want to present any negative image of him their dad. Unfortunately his behavior speaks volume about him. The kids see it clearly or feel it somehow. Do not justify it. When you say 'he decided to go to the other woman' (the truth) and it hurts you then please tell them clearly that this must not affect how they feel for him. They must understand that they do not have to take sides and they must feel free to continue and love their dad. The best - for their sake- is to speak only about your feelings (not all in details because you do not want to emotionally 'abuse' them by turning them into your confidents- we in MN and your friends and relatives are here/there for this- and you do not want them to take side in this break up.) Good Luck, I will not be around during the week-end! I will be thinking about you. You are stronger than what you think. Hugs. XXXX

I wouldn't actually give them the details of what has gone wrong unless they ask for them. I would just say we have decided we are going to live apart from now on and that they will still see him at his house. They will want to know how their everyday lives are affected, that they will still have the same bedrooms, the same school, the same friends etc.

To help them feel secure you need to focus on how their lives will be, more than on what went wrong in your marriage. After that, you might be guided by their questions. They will take their lead from you, your tone, how emotional you are, so if you can, try not to act like it is a tragedy for anyone. Good luck.

I meant to say they will feel secure if they feel that you are confident about it, you are in charge and you know how it is all going to be, and it is all going to be ok. Emotional outpourings from broken adults are no good to them.

Agree with FB. It is Ok to be sad but not to make out of it a tragedy. Yeah really all what FB said is sound advice. I will just add that maybe you can take charge of the conversation in such a way that you direct the kids to how their life will look like now. And again go to the schools and enroll them to help the kids adjust to the changes. Schools are good at this now. There are many kids who go through the separation of parents.

Good Luck!

Thanks for all that super advice. I would make sure that I was in a strong frame of mind when I talk to them, so that they can see I am okay, and that I'm able to be calm and reassuring for them.

I feel like I've made huge steps today in mentally moving forward, and taking control of this.

I'm starting to really shift my thinking where I feel quite detached from how he will feel or react to anything I decide is in my and the children's best interests.

Though I am wondering if he will now start getting angry about him not having it his own way, and trying to be the 'victim' when he realises I'm not being so understanding and manipulated by his emotional 'turmoil'.

Truly,
YOU tell the kids if, when , and how you want to.

YOU start divorce proceedings if and when you want to.

YOU renegotiate a possible reconciliation if and when you want to.

YOU decide, along with your husband how shared care of the children will work .

YOU decide if you are ok with him coming and going in your home.

I followed the old thread from the start before anyone asks.

I seriously cannot believe all the bossiness from people on this thread telling you what to do and that you are in some way lacking if you don't play hardball now or preferably yesterday.

you sound pretty sorted actually. Whatever the outcome you will be okay .
good luck x

totally and utterly agree with shirleybasseyslovechild

Truly I didn't see your original thread but have lurked on this one. Your OP on this thread and some of your subsequent posts suggested that you would take your husband back if he left OW. But you do sound more positive now and any progress towards emotional detachment is good so well done.

I do agree with everyone that it is important that you tell the children. When one parent has betrayed them it is important that they feel they can trust you to be honest with them. Ma's post of 21.40 is good advice as to what you tell them in my opinion.

The only thing I would say to you should a situation arise where your DH left OW and wanted to come back to you is this. You have said that if you were to consider taking him back that he would have to jump through a lot of hoops for you to consider it. The problem you have, in my opinion, is that he knows those hoops are there. He knows that if he jumps through the right hoops in the right way that you will probably take him back.

If there is any chance that any possible reconciliation will work out and that he won't cheat on you again he needs to think that he has lost you and that the hoops have been put away. Right now he probably feels that you are still an option for him if he decides the grass isn't greener.

When you feel ready to, try and do some things for you, it doesn't matter what. Meals out, swimming, a walk, a nice evening with friends. Focus on you and your children and not him.

Wishing you all the best