Anyone read the times article about how to save your marriage from divorce ?

[kittensinmydinner]

Very briefly, the long and short of it is ... Young children take their toll on a marriage. The 'modern' way of child centred parenting puts too much focus on the children, leading the main carer to stop putting effort into their relationship and the other spouse - working outside the home- to feel pushed out and unloved. (All the love and attention being focussed on the dcs) this leads to resentment from both parties, -Sahp feeling the other doesn't appreciate how hard child caring is, the other feeling they don't matter. Resentment builds until it goes bang - usually but not exclusively with the working parent seeking outside interests to fill the void. The solution. - a la 1950 to put the kids to bed at 7, brush your hair, have dinner ready, bit of lippy ( I'm guessing for the sahm - but who knows) and spend the evening being a spouse not a parent... The philosophy being that by putting your spouses needs before dcs you create a solid foundation for family and happier dcs. Thoughts ladies. Have we gone to far in child centred parenting or is this the holy grail of happy families. ?

You can still put your children's needs first and have your own life, even if you have them at home all the time.
We have never used childcare, only ever had the odd baby sitter but still both manage to have time together and time for each other.
Putting your own needs and those of your partner first sometimes, doesn't make you a bad parent.
It's a matter of balance and like any other decision or choices you make in life, what works best for your family.
I have had one very independant child and 2 who were very dependant as children, we varied our approach to time according to their needs.
We haven't been on holiday without them, but I don't think there's anything wrong with that as long as their needs are met and you are there for them at other times.

Cleo in the nicest possible way.

Your husband is a selfish twat.

You have a 8 week old ffs. And its your second so he should know better.

I found the article patronising, and seemed a very shallow account. Not least of all the killer moment when her mother got involved, lectured her about her marriage vows and guilted her for even considering leaving the knob of a DH

So little wifey scurries off, puts on her lippy and nice outfit and bingo it saved their marriage. Hmm right.

OK granted it did seem to sort them out, but I think she ended up with the raw deal, not him!

TBH, I agree with the article.

I don't like kids generally and really am not sure if I want them and it's doo-gooding, holier than thou mums that want to spend every waking second with their children and never stop banging on about then that MAKE me not want children.

It is NOT selfish to want to keep a bit of your own identity after you've had a child, to do the things you did before, to still enjoy life as an individual rather then just a 'mother'

I find it incredibly sad and boring that so many people give up their lives entirely for their children.

Surely there's a middle ground?
I didn't give up my identity when I had children, AmonRa1 but then I didn't give it up when I got married either.
The article seems to advocate pandering to a partner, whilst also raising children. Where's the self identity in that?
Fuck that.
Be ourselves, raise our children, do our best, be with our our partners/husbands/wives, work our jobs and still remain human.

Sometimes DH and I want to lounge about naked, shag all over the house, snog all afternoon... You sure you're married?

purdiepie I did say sometimes

I'm just spectacularly

I haven't read all 11 pages but interesting point raised earlier. Not everyone has toddlers that conk out at 7pm. What if your preteen DD doesn't sleep until 10pm? What do you do for couple time then? Get up early? Doesn't work if you have smaller DC...

I would love to know the answer to this

One of mine is a bit of a night owl but she knows that she has to be in her room from a certain time. I am learning from this thread that I am not a particularly good example of parenting, so I may not be best placed to give advice

You throw their ass into bed.

He does pull his weight mostly yes. He's been very good at taking dc1 out and about and looking after him while I deal with dc2. He comes home early so he can put dc1 to bed and I can bf dc2. But he does have the view he works so life's so much harder for him and has high expectations of me around the house etc

He is a bit selfish yes but I can also see it from his point of view. He's bored spending evenings on his own while I am in bed and really wants sex. He wants us to spend time together but it s difficult for me to mAnage everything and have time to myself too. If we have time together I sacrifice time to myself really.

I'm all for an early bed time, but even assuming you have biddable children who require no further attention after 7pm, I think the flaw in this plan is that in many families the parents aren't home by 7.

Very true pinning. Co-opting the heartache of women who endure infertility and miscarriage in an argument about how much time other women should spend with their children is awful.

LadyCatherine exactly! It's absurd. My auntie went through years of miscarriages and then fertility treatment before my cousin was born. She adores her. She still has weekends away from her sometimes!

I know a couple who both write for The Times. They split a year's maternity leave for their child. Neither of them received maternity pay from the paper, because the wife was on one of those dodgy contracts which means she wasn't considered permanent, despite having worked there for years. They don't finish work until 7ish, so definitely their child doesn't go to bed until after that.

Christ, there was some epic mummy martyrdom on this thread! Personally I love time away from my DC - ME time. The small child years are funny and charming and cuddly but also really full on. I'm another one who prefers slightly older children.

I agree that the journo has married a pretty poor specimen but it's interesting some of the (slightly sneering) comments made about her marrying late and rushing to have children. Maybe she's had to rush because she was running out of time. And maybe it is more of a shock for couples who are still in the honeymoon stage to have their kids than it is for couples who have been together longer and already weathered some storms. I know I found it a big change - married within two years, a child 2 years later.

'He's been very good at taking dc1 out and about and looking after him while I deal with dc2. '

He's not 'good'. They are his children, too. FGS. You have an 8-week-old and he's bored he wants his dick serviced more. Boo-fucking-hoo. What a twat.

I have yesterday's Sunday Times but can't find this article. Is it online only, if not can anyone tell me where it is in the paper copy? Thanks

Roseybee10 - please don't worry that you are not meeting some ideal. I think the thread has raised some good points about not neglecting a relationship with a partner in favour of children, but I honestly don't think this applies if you have very young children/babies. You need to just get though those very early months/years. Hopefully you have enough good will in your relationship built up to take the inevitable strain. That strain can be there if both partners work or if one is a sahp. The reasons may be different but the strain remains.

What is probably important is to continue to try and communicate and to treat each other with as much kindness as you can muster. Try to foster an atmosphere of "us together dealing with this really tiring, relentless time" rather than point scoring or blaming each other etc. If you can manage that at least 60% of the time, then when the babies/toddlers are a bit older, you can spend some time building the relationship up again.

Tbh I think the whole putting kids to bed early is a bit of a red herring anyway. Of course this might work when they are in primary school and in fact my ds does go to bed at a set time, come summer or winter but I don't think this is necessary in order for me and Dh to put ourselves first a bit.

He's bored spending evenings on his own

You know what the solution to boredom is. Doing more so you aren't so bloody knackered.

We were fortunate - DD went to bed at 6:30 when she was small and slept all the way through to 7am - wow she needed her sleep! Different now of course!

If lipstick is the key to marriage longevity then I don't know how DH and I have clocked up 25 years - I never wear it, and he only wears it occasionally.

I've taken the opposite approach to the journo though - I require DH to worship the ground I walk on and remind him that a woman needs tenderness, affection, adulation and idolatory - that isn't much to ask, really.

DH is very strong on the fact that our family has 3 people plus animals. Each has their moments of importance depending on circumstances and we all have hobbies. That way DD sees us as people not domestic appliances and taxi drivers and DH and I have a role outside "being a parent" or "being a spouse".

Once a household revolves around the routine and likes of only one member then it becomes a dictatorship and that's no model for a family.

"Put the children's needs first v put the husbands needs first?
I am 51 and all done with putting other people first.
Its time my fucking needs came first!"

Yep. 100%

H went through a jealous phase because he thought the kids were too important to me. Only reason for that was because for most of their lives he had worked long hours or shifts so I was their go-to parent for everything inspite of always working fulltime and doing the lions share of everything at home. He didn't help his cause by going out quite a lot as well. But he seemed to think he should be important to them just because he was their Father without being a loving happy involved presence in their lives. So I jumped through a few more hoops trying to make him happy as well as them and drove myself to depression. Then he had an affair because 'he thought I didn't love him'. Self-pitying bollocks!

Now I am doing what makes me happy and anyone who doesn't like that can simply get fucked! As it happens the kids are very happy with the way things are and H is OK (most of the time) too. And if he stops being happy with it he can go somewhere else. I am DONE being everything to everybody especially to a grown man who really should be able to look after himself.

That sounds very angry. I am not actually angry with H anymore - it's all done and dusted but this kind of thing makes me angry - let's just put the children (that we chose to have) away in their little boxes so that one partner (usually the man) can be pandered too and have his little ego polished while the other partner (usually the woman) runs around like a blue-arsed fly making all this domestic stuff look easy and effortless.

Hear hear to Miggsie and Irian.

Don't any of these people have teens? They will NOT go to sleep by 7pm.