Anyone read the times article about how to save your marriage from divorce ?

[kittensinmydinner]

Very briefly, the long and short of it is ... Young children take their toll on a marriage. The 'modern' way of child centred parenting puts too much focus on the children, leading the main carer to stop putting effort into their relationship and the other spouse - working outside the home- to feel pushed out and unloved. (All the love and attention being focussed on the dcs) this leads to resentment from both parties, -Sahp feeling the other doesn't appreciate how hard child caring is, the other feeling they don't matter. Resentment builds until it goes bang - usually but not exclusively with the working parent seeking outside interests to fill the void. The solution. - a la 1950 to put the kids to bed at 7, brush your hair, have dinner ready, bit of lippy ( I'm guessing for the sahm - but who knows) and spend the evening being a spouse not a parent... The philosophy being that by putting your spouses needs before dcs you create a solid foundation for family and happier dcs. Thoughts ladies. Have we gone to far in child centred parenting or is this the holy grail of happy families. ?

Haven't read it. Will do but all sounds sensible.

If you're married to a knob this would not make a jot of difference.

It's The Times, a Conservative paper that wishes it were still the 1950s and lauds patriarchy.

'Have we gone to far in child centred parenting or is this the holy grail of happy families. ?'

There never was. Even then.

I thought it was an irritating article. What about the parent doing the drudge work feeling as if they don't matter & are no better than a housekeeper who has no time off?

Spending time with your spouse after the kids are in bed? Revolutionary!

I think the article is right about the children but it's so much more socially accepted now to walk away from your wife and children now than it was all those years ago.

It's telling that usually on the relationship board on MN there are almost always young dc involved.

I do think that having children creates a massive pressure and responsibility that most of us don't anticipate until we are in the thick of it.

It's how we deal with it that is crucial.

The woman rarely walks away from it because it just isn't socially acceptable for her to do that and possibly she might not want to leave her children.

Oh and what Mrs David Bowie said!

So it is the main carer's (aka the woman) job to ensure this happens? What does the working parent do. Sit, back, relax,watch it all happen around them.

An adult's wants (or even needs in a lot of cases) shouldn't come before a dependent child's needs. That is a terrible lesson to be teaching.

The issue is that too many men are not used to not being the centre of attention when children come along. That is their problem and the children or the woman shouldn't have to bear the brunt of their ego taking a fall.

Men step up in the childcare stakes. Less resentment all around. Suspect that wasn't an offered solution though.

We always eat after 7 when kids in bed. That's our time to chat and catch up on our days. Hardly revolutionary. Every other meal is with the kids inc dinner on the weekend but midweek it's important to have that uninterrupted quality time!

That's what my parents used to do when I was a child & I liked that 50s feeling of grownups chatting in the drawing room, while I was cosily tucked up in bed.

We sort of do similar in our relationship, the children have set bedtimes & there's no mucking about, although my husband generally gets in later than my father.

As for lipstick and having the dinner ready, fuck off.

It's The Times, a Conservative paper that wishes it were still the 1950s and lauds patriarchy

Quite. And Murdoch-owned to boot.

I think it makes a lot of sense. It's not so much the lippy and the having dinner ready....more letting them know that they are still your priority. I think this is what's changed..A woman would be judged now if she said she puts her husband before her kids. If the best way for a man to love his kids is to love his wife....does it work the other way round?

God I'm glad my DH isn't the needy type .. When our dc were small we both worked , both helped .. No ones job .. We both took equal share .. We both sang from the same hymn sheet .. And understood.. We had two dc and they came first .. Now they are older teens and independent young ladies.. Dh and I have lots of quality time to ourselves again

Mmm, and what if the working parent wants to see their children when they get home? I know when my dd is away working she can't wait to get back and see her little girl.

I don't do it every night, but it has been known for me to put on some make up before dh arrives home, so I look half decent. Also we have dinner (cooked by me 95% of the time) when the kids are in bed, chat, have a glass of wine with the toys put by and some candles lit. Does this make me a 50s esque housewife? I'm perfectly happy with the way it works.

Well, if house prices were more affordable, and working parents (both) didn't have such a long commute and difficult, demanding jobs...

If I put my children to bed at 7pm they would never see their Dad, and often miss seeing me too.

If we didn't work, we would be unable to maintain our (daily modest) home, and we would be homeless or put more demands on social housing.

My parents had a good social life, and often went out midweek, but then they didn't have two or three hours work to do in the evening as we both have.

Yes I think it's too child centred. Not sure if a bit of lippy and carting children off to bed will help.
But yes fundamentally I totally agree. I do believe the relationship of the parents is very important and has lost its importance.
Many mothers seem to live through their kids. Seem to need the children's attention, seem to want to be the child's best friend. Rather than their parent.

This article may be a bit naff but I actually think it raises done very difficult questions. And the basic sentiments I couldn't agree more with.

Is there a link? Is this today's times?

I was intrigued by the article, as my upbringing was very very close to this but - not quite. However my next door neighbours was exactly like this, I stayed over often. ..Dinner at 6, bath, bed. Father came home from city at 7, Mrs NDN all glammed up and 2nd (adult) dinner all ready in oven. Went to sleep to sound of adult conversation and laughs permeating from the drawing room. (The one we were never allowed in - we had our own sitting room -very clear demarcation between adult and childrens worlds) BUT 'daddy played golf all day Saturday and then 'uncle Brian came over to 'talk' to mummy in her bedroom for several hours.... This was the 1970's ..so definitely not 'child centred' up bringing. The couple now in their 70's still married.

Or a different remedy?

Both parents take equal shares in raising the children. If one parent is feeling excluded from family life that person takes proactive steps to remedy that, perhaps by spending more time in the home (even considering changing employment, and having both parents working flexibly) and certainly both working on better communication - eg resolving difficulties as they occur, not stopping out and avoiding, or expetting only one person to be responsible for the health of the relationship.

But yes to early bedtimes and plenty of opportunities for spouses/partners to relate to each other as adults.

Posted too soon... But at what cost ? Father saw dcs one day a week ! and mother obviously not happy !

I don't agree that 'kids come first'.
Why? There are four people in our family. None of them more important than any other. Without DH and my marriage, there would be no 'family' for the ds's to be part of.

Yes, today's times.. Weekend supplement front page and article on page 2&3

I disagree with scallops.
And I disagree with only 'we had 2 kids and both agreed that they came first'. You see, that is the attitude that the article is talking about.
Everywhere on MN. Kids come first, before everything and everyone else.

And if you dare to question, you are some sort of uncaring un-maternal monster.

Don't we get OPs time after time where the SAHP complains of the WOHP playing on their xbox until 3:00am?

Still, I'm sure if the SAHP just put on a bit of lippy, the WOHP would be so mesmerised by it, they would forget all about the xbox, or the pub or the television, or whatever, and spend more time with them.

I'll remeber to suggest it more often, on the Relationships threads.

And what about if both parents work? Who should put on the lippy? Me or DH? I need to know?