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Original poster

Anyone read the times article about how to save your marriage from divorce ?

315 replies

kittensinmydinner · 11/04/2015 13:56

Very briefly, the long and short of it is ... Young children take their toll on a marriage. The 'modern' way of child centred parenting puts too much focus on the children, leading the main carer to stop putting effort into their relationship and the other spouse - working outside the home- to feel pushed out and unloved. (All the love and attention being focussed on the dcs) this leads to resentment from both parties, -Sahp feeling the other doesn't appreciate how hard child caring is, the other feeling they don't matter. Resentment builds until it goes bang - usually but not exclusively with the working parent seeking outside interests to fill the void. The solution. - a la 1950 to put the kids to bed at 7, brush your hair, have dinner ready, bit of lippy ( I'm guessing for the sahm - but who knows) and spend the evening being a spouse not a parent... The philosophy being that by putting your spouses needs before dcs you create a solid foundation for family and happier dcs. Thoughts ladies. Have we gone to far in child centred parenting or is this the holy grail of happy families. ?

OP posts:
YawnyMcYawn · 11/04/2015 18:16

I have an unsettling suspicion that if DH shaved his legs, he'd look better in heels than I would. Sad

DrCoconut · 11/04/2015 18:25

Not sure how we could get DS2 to bed at 7 even if he was ready. We are seldom home from work and nursery before about 6. Then we need to eat, get ready for bed etc. and he would be up at 3 - 4 am if he went to bed at 7. I was never packed off to bed that early and think it is unnecessary. Not wrong if it suits you and your family life but not the holy grail that it is made out to be either.

Philoslothy · 11/04/2015 18:40

I can't read the article as I assume it is behind a paywall.

DH have been through some very trying times, 6th child on the way, miscarriages, son with special needs who is very challenging, balancing step children and both of us have very demanding extended families. Our marriage is very strong but we have always worked at it. Making sure that we have time on our own each evening, we go away for the weekend quite often and have an extended break away on our own every year.

It has certainly become much easier since I gave up work. We eat as a family every evening rather than just DH and I. However the children know that most evenings DH are alone from 9pm and now that I don't work that is quality time for us. We often sit with a bottle of wine or a drink and chat, listen to the radio or a book, play a game or just make plans together. The children know to knock on our bedroom door, they don't just barge in. We also have a family room and a more adult room, so our evenings are not spent surrounded by child rearing paraphranaelia.

Sometimes DH will come home to me smelling of manure and covered in straw but often I will put on a bit of lippie and a frock. Just as when I worked away he would make an effort for me when I came home.

I don't think it is about a woman being subservient but just taking time to remind each other that you are each other's priority and you can't wait to rip their clothes off.

Ideally in a family everyone takes their turn at coming first.

DustBunnyFarmer · 11/04/2015 18:43

The 'modern' way of child centred parenting puts too much focus on the children, leading the main carer to stop putting effort into their relationship and the other spouse - working outside the home- to feel pushed out and unloved.

I've only got half way down page 1 of the comments on this thread, but the statement above jumped out at me. That's a pretty stereotypical view of the modern family set up. A lot of couples with young children both work outside of the home - and in many jobs end up doing work at home in the evenings. I think it betrays the bias of the article - a very particular small-c conservative world view.

Philoslothy · 11/04/2015 18:47

I agree dust bunny but I do think they in dual career families it is also a problem. When I worked my relationship with my husband was often neglected. I was always aware of how little time I had and therefore out of guilt I allowed the children to dominate the family.

MovingOnUpMovingOnOut · 11/04/2015 18:49

I've decided my problem with this writer is that she appears to be married to a total cock. So I find it very hard to relate to what she writes because I am not married to a total cock.

fourteen · 11/04/2015 18:49

If you're married to a wanker then no wonder you concentrate more on your kids...

willnotbetamed · 11/04/2015 18:49

Well, maybe that is one way of doing it. But where there is no SAHP, how do you know whose turn it is for the lippy and the frock?

We both work, take it in turns to pick the kids up, DH cooks dinner for all of us and I wash up afterwards. Kids get to bed between 8-9pm, which leaves enough of the evening left for wine and a chat if we're in the mood - more often than not, it's my DH slumped on the sofa watching football while I faff around on my computer (e.g. mumsnet). Spending quality time with each other is great once in a while, but we both quite like not having to talk to each other at all on some evenings!

Perhaps the reason why we're fairly happy is because no one feels like an unpaid drudge or an underappreciated breadwinner - at least, not more than 50% of the time? In my book, equality is a better path to happiness than, um, lipstick...

Philoslothy · 11/04/2015 18:52

You can have equality and lipstick.

Lweji · 11/04/2015 18:55

When I worked my relationship with my husband was often neglected. I was always aware of how little time I had and therefore out of guilt I allowed the children to dominate the family.

How did HE feel about his work and his time?

Would you say that he neglects your relationship because he works?

DustBunnyFarmer · 11/04/2015 18:57

I actually think many men in todays' society (and I mean very "alpha" types) expect their partner to be in cosy trackies so they can snuggle in front of the sofa and watch TV and chill out, not standing there in a lacy apron with big hair and a candlelit dinner and pressure to Make Scintillating Conversation.

This description of the 50s hausfrau get up made me laugh.

FirstWeTakeManhattan · 11/04/2015 18:59

equality is a better path to happiness than, um, lipstick…

We manage the equality bit and I wear lipstick (sometimes) too. Multitasking, that is.

That reminds me... on the gardening forum I'm on, loads of people were lining up to have a bit of a needle at those who bothered with make up whilst working at the allotment/in the garden. I pointed out that I had not yet found that a coat of mascara affected my mattock swing to any significant degree. Grin

Philoslothy · 11/04/2015 19:01

How did HE feel about his work and his time?

Would you say that he neglects your relationship because he works?

My husband has a job that he can leave once he walks through the door. When I was teaching I was at school from 7 until 6pm and then working in the evening. I did have weekends and holidays free but I could not give the time that I wanted to, to my home and family.

Philoslothy · 11/04/2015 19:02

I do have a lacy apron, I have had big hair in the past. Blush

BabyGanoush · 11/04/2015 19:17

I read her Guardian article, on the Peter Pan husband.

He is clearly an utter cock, and she must have low self esteem to stay with him. If you are married to a man like that, goodness me, it is indeed quite an achievement to stay together.

Her next article will probably be why you should stay with your husband, even if he cheats on you.

Maliceaforethought · 11/04/2015 19:42

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

noramum · 11/04/2015 19:59

When DD was a toddler we weren't home before 6pm, DH did the nursery pick up. I would be starved by 8.30pm when we didn't do dinner all together beforehand.

For us family meals are more important then unintrupted dinner time. For this we do date nights and now the two evenings Dd has late clubs between 6-7.30pm.

I think it is vital that both parents realise to make time for the couple, spending dinner together can be one way but is hardly the only one and a child virtually not seeing one parent as it is in bed can't be healthy either.

Andrise · 11/04/2015 20:27

What jumps out at me from both the Times and the previous Guardian article (have not read the others linked to) was once again it is the woman who is expected to do all the heavy lifting.

She basically seems to be sole parent whilst he is off drinking and partying with his mates. Is the answer to this really really a bit of lippy and a frock? I'll bet my bottom dollar it isn't. Why the heck wasn't he helping out his knackered wife and why wasn't he courting her rather than her having to run around after him like a Stepford Wife?

My exH was very like this. Everyone loved him and he was the life and soul of every party. We both worked in the same industry, but only I ever bothered to manage my time so that I was home for the children in the evenings - he could have but didn't. Only I took time off work if someone was ill, only I ever went to school parents' evenings, only I made sure everyone had clean clothes and the house was tidy and food was cooked - you get the picture. He of course was far too important for any of that and had to put in long hours at the office (for which read partying and shagging other women). Sadly this seems to be par for the course amongst friends' husbands too.

If I had my time again, which sadly I won't, I would have looked for a very different relationship. One in which we were BOTH parents and BOTH pulled our weight. One where we BOTH valued the other's contributions.

However, I have yet to meet one of these rare male specimens. Do they really exist? Discuss...

MovingOnUpMovingOnOut · 11/04/2015 20:37

My top tip for a happy and successful marriage: Don't marry a cock.

You can sign up for my book at www.statingthebloodyobviouspublications.com

wafflingworrier · 11/04/2015 20:42

best marriage advice (in wedding card!) i ever got was "sex is the cement that keeps a marriage together".

ours are always in bed by 7 but are still preschool age. we don't bath them every night, normally once a week if that. it's not part of their routine so bedtime only takes half an hour (or less if we pick short stories)

i don't mind 5am wake ups, i find that we have good family time in the mornings getting up over a few hours and having breakfast together, then in the evenings we have time to be "us" without the kids.
i'm guessing when our children stay up later we'll have to set an alarm clock to get up early to have sex....i think i remember dame helen mirren admitting to doing this in an interview once....

pinningwobble · 11/04/2015 20:43

Agree that:

  1. if you're married to an idiot this won't make any difference at all
  2. women and men should be pulling weight equally here!

However I do think and have always thought (to my immense unpopularity on MN!) that families these days are too 'child-centred'. It used to be that children fitted in with what their parents wanted to do. Now everyone fits in with what the child wants to do. I work with children and unfortunately this kind of attitude leads to some (not all of course) children having issues with entitlement and spoiled behaviour.

Of course, the most important thing for any child is that they are loved and well cared for, respected and listened to, but I think occasionally these days that overspills into people thinking that means your children have to dictate your life and what's more that they're entitled to. They aren't.

I absolutely put my DH on an equal footing with DCs. I don't want to neglect our relationship. At the end of the day I am trying to raise them to grow up and go out into the world as independent adults and I am fully expecting and hoping I will have equipped them with the necessary skills to make their own way and for them to have fulfilled and happy lives. I want them to go off, travel, do things. So it's important to work on my relationship with DH as it's he and I who will (in a sense) be left behind together. We try really hard to make it happen!

wafflingworrier · 11/04/2015 20:45

ha!
yes
Don't marry a cock.

that is also excellent advice. probably not ok to write that in a wedding card though Grin

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 11/04/2015 20:51

I agree with some of the article. I think we're too focused on kids in the UK and it's not necessarily good for them, certainly not to the detriment of a marriage/relationship because all the focus is on them.

In our relationship we both put the NEEDS of the children first, then each other. We would however never put the WANTS of the children before each other's needs.

The suggestion not to 'marry a cock'... well, what's the female equivalent? You can't just abdicate all responsibility for your relationship because you were the one who gave birth. I think some women do this, thinking they are 'in charge', the uber partner somehow. Equality or nothing in my book.

pinningwobble · 11/04/2015 20:56

lyingwitch I think you have hit the nail on the head with the wants/needs thing there! I meant married to a cock either way tbh, male or female.