Anyone read the times article about how to save your marriage from divorce ?

[kittensinmydinner]

Very briefly, the long and short of it is ... Young children take their toll on a marriage. The 'modern' way of child centred parenting puts too much focus on the children, leading the main carer to stop putting effort into their relationship and the other spouse - working outside the home- to feel pushed out and unloved. (All the love and attention being focussed on the dcs) this leads to resentment from both parties, -Sahp feeling the other doesn't appreciate how hard child caring is, the other feeling they don't matter. Resentment builds until it goes bang - usually but not exclusively with the working parent seeking outside interests to fill the void. The solution. - a la 1950 to put the kids to bed at 7, brush your hair, have dinner ready, bit of lippy ( I'm guessing for the sahm - but who knows) and spend the evening being a spouse not a parent... The philosophy being that by putting your spouses needs before dcs you create a solid foundation for family and happier dcs. Thoughts ladies. Have we gone to far in child centred parenting or is this the holy grail of happy families. ?

It was an awful article. Totally agree parents need to make time for each other - but their solution seemed to be she became some sort of surrendered wife and his needs came first before anything. He sounded like a selfish dick to me, she just hadn't realised it beforehand as they met, married and had their children very quickly. Particularly loved the quote where he had said she was a good mother but not always a very good wife.

Well if is the case, I better find a solicitor now.

We've made a conscious decision to let DS have his day centred around being awake in the evenings so we can spend time as a family in a more European style way of living. Not a competition between DH and DS for my time.

The whole premise of the article assumes that the parent who works (if the other is a SAHP) doesn't want to spend time with their child.

For us its not about being child centred. DS tends to fit in with what we want to do. I guess that might change as he gets older. But then WE are big kids and he's just an excuse to do certain things!

We are both making conscious efforts to get involved in each others interests to. Even if we don't share them. With the idea that we will do as a family later. And we've always been very much ok with doing things on our own.

I think the article falls down in its thinking in that it judges things as either being a childs needs or an adults needs. And never the twain shall they be the same or shared. Its always a competition.

Its not about there being a conflict, its about combining them and making sure that everyone gets their needs met - not one person running around like a lunatic trying to balance things for everyone else at their expense.

Some logic, I agree you should have time together as a couple. I wouldn't believe everything you read in the paper, I'm sure there's some artistic licence on the state of her marriage.

best marriage advice (in wedding card!) i ever got was "sex is the cement that keeps a marriage together".

I totally agree as I do with the poster who distinguished between needs and wants. For DH and I sex is a need. I do think that is why marriages often struggle when new children arrive because sex goes out of the window. DH and I had a bumpy patch after our first son and a lack of sex was definitely a feature in that.

How is it that women are somehow both "abdicating all responsibility" AND "putting themselves in charge", Lying? Sounds a bit like they can't do right for doing wrong in that set up.

I really wonder why SAH are being held responsible NOT ONLY for family life and raising the kids and all the wife work AS WELL as being somehow the person who has to take care of the adult relationship. DP does the majority of our childcare and I'm the breadwinner, and you know what? If he was too knackered to bother with himself and too overwhelmed to have grown up conversations with me I:d be wondering what I could do to help him out, not sulking about my lost singleton life or looking elsewhere. FFS

I think the danger with these confessional pieces is that you get a quick glimpse into somebody's marriage which may not be representative. A little like when posters start threads on the relationships board in which they just want to offload about one aspect about their partner and everyone shouts LTB and the poster gets offended because she has a more holistic view of their relationship.

We all have our flaws, I could list flaws in my husband and make him sound like a twat. But when looking at him overall, over the 25 years I have known him he is a wonderful man.

Or moaning about him being a good father but not a good husband

That woman is a nutter. If that's the best she can do, she ought to give up being a journalist.

I read an article cr good housekeeping from the 50s when teaching changes in fhe law in gender equality etc. one of the points is put a ribbon in your hair before
Your husband gets home. I started to do this and he loved it.

I know that book Calleigh!

It was left on the shelf in a flat which my then-boyfriend rented. He read it and told me he kept thinking that he should put a ribbon in his hair to greet me when I arrived.

I read that Times article. I was really shocked at the bit where she said she laughed when her DH slipped on a toy and fell over. I can see how that could be funny, but find out if he's hurt first. That part struck me as being really unfeeling.

We put ours to bed at 7 and also have family babysitters close by so get out and about together for the evening very often. This has been extremely important for keeping our relationship on track and making sure we see each other as more than just mummy and daddy for these few years of toddler chaos. I don't really like the 50s insinuations going on in that article mind you although I agree with some of the points.

That's an excellent point RedToothBrush

I think this implication that men "compete" with their children for their partners attention, as if they want to be her "little boy with all his attention needs met" is bizarre, as if men don't enjoy the company of their whole family?

Also AF was spot on the button as usual, I think for a family, seeing a woman who always actively puts time and energy into self-care and herself is an excellent role model, much better than some guilt inducing "mummy martyr who has no identity".

Obviously anyone who works shifts is doomed then, as their hours might rule out this lipstick-based adult-centred nutritional needs meeting session...

Sheesh.

We just take turns in meeting each other's needs in our family. No-one is more important than anyone else.

AuntieStella: yes, that's true! And just to prove it, DH and I have a weekend away planned next month for our 20th anniversary! DS17 is babysitting!

DementedMa: know exactly what you mean - see above!

I don't really understand what child-focused parenting means. That is, I can parse it, but none of you nodding together sagely has offered a concrete example. What does it look like, taken to the extremes implied by the article?

DH works long hours. His tea is ready when he gets home and we have sex most evenings. Does that mean I'm safe from divorce?

Well i think it sounds a bit patronising.

Firstly what if, like in my family, the kids have extra curricular stuff like judo, rugby soccer etc which only starts at 7pm??

It was easy when they were toddlers to have them down by 7, but once they got to school and took up sports, no chance of that!

Plus, if you are married to a knob, as mentioned above, then all the lippy and nice dinners in the world make no difference, if anything the sahp will be taken for granted even more for doing all that.

The 50's is hardly an era to replicate!

My under 11's start school after 1pm so they go to bed late and they get up late. So they are with us a lot and we all eat lunch at home. I think spending time together and being friends is important. I don't think anyone has a catch all recipee for this. It's a bit narrowminded to suggest that the ONLY way to achieve this is lipstick and dinner.

From an evolutionary perspective we shouldn't be in relationships like marriage. The women would focus on the children (not just their own) and the men would go off and make more.

My daughter wasn't born with an off switch, and a 7pm bedtime is not the best thing for everyone by a long shot.

So frankly, The Times can fuck off.

I don't think anyone on this thread is saying that there is one way to make a marriage work. We all have different challenges and therefore we have to overcome them in different ways.

YY to why are people who out their kids to bed at 7pm surprised the kids get up at 5am?

I find it interesting that on Mumsnet mothers are vilified if they don't let their under 10 year old children play all day unsupervised and wander home for tea. The argument being that it was ok 20/30/40/50 years ago so should be ok now. The thing is, society is not the same - the
population has exploded so more people in less space (uk 1980 53 million - UK today 64 million);
drugs have become common and accessible so more people high and doing weird stuff (and I say that politely), more traffic, media saturation and reality focus, more access to information not all of it good, more stress .... Unless you live in a little country village, it's hardly the same place that we grew up in. I give my children growing independence - but it's no where near my upbringing and it would be entirely wrong for me to replicate my parents parenting style in the place where I now live with my children

Ps not saying bad things didn't happen in the 80s and not saying bad things will happen now - but I do believe it is more likely now - which means I need to teach my children a supplemental skill set not taught to me at the same age

I haven't been able to read the full article but I do think it is important to pay attention to your relationship, though it is something I have struggled with I think.

I work a full time, very stressful and full on job in the City. As does my husband - though his hours are more predictable than mine and he rarely has to work in the evenings. I find after I have raced home in time to see the children before bed (we have two, one 3.5 and one 1.5) and relieve the nanny, fielded e-mails and done any other work at need to the let thing I want to do is cook a meal. We are constantly putting ready meals in the oven! I feel my husband wants proper food on the table in the evenings as this is what his mother provided (she never worked however, had a lot of help and all three children were at boarding school from age 7, and her marriage has not exactly been exemplary) but I am just so exhausted. I need to make more of an effort to do this even a couple nights a week.

Also I need to make more of an effort to do things for myself - I just feel so guilty leaving the children at the weekends as I am at work all week and feel like Ihardly see them.

I do think the article is a bit one sided and doesn't really speak to relationships where both parents work. It can't all be fixed by the wife!

After reading her other articles, I actually don't get why anyone would want to stay married with this selfish man-child.

Biscuits. You'll never make it work like that. They need you more as teens. Not less.