Is this fair (access)

[Marmaladedandelions]

STBXH is moving. He has a job and a house (though the sale hasn't gone through yet) about an hour and a half/two hours from where we live.

I don't want him having unsupervised contact with the children, who are eight years old and nearly a year old. There's also a second baby girl on the way.

Last week I went up there. He took the eight year old on a day out while I was in the building which I was fine with, and we all went out for something to eat.

I have suggested this on a weekly basis. He has said he wants twice a week. I think a 2 hour drive is too much twice a week. In all honesty I don't want him in my house so it would mean going somewhere mid-week and doing something after school which seems like a lot for the eight year old. Then, DH would either have to drive back or stay over in a hotel or similar and I'm worried about him putting pressure on me to let him stay.

So, I suppose what I'm asking is - is once a week fair? I am flexible when it's school holidays by the way.

Turn the situation around, would you be happy to see your own children once a week and feel that he was being reasonable suggesting that? I doubt it. Both parents need frequent contact, one is not more important than the other.

If he lived locally littlemonsters then I would be happy for that, but the issue is the distance. It's not about what's fair to me or to him but the children.

Why don't you want him having unsupervised contact? What has he done?

Rather a lot of things, unfortunately. I could go down the route of making that formal and will do so if we run into difficulties but obviously I'd rather not.

I think a two hour drive twice a week is a bit too much. However, I can't see a reason why, if he's willing to drive, to come to your town and take the eight year old (and then later the other two) out somewhere for an evening mid-week.

Then he could come and pick them both up friday night, then you can pick them up sunday morning each weekend? Unless he's done something wrong there shouldn't be a reason he can't do this.

Ah, didn't see that update! If he really can't be left alone with the kids then you'll probably have to make it formal, contact centers etc

No, we couldn't do that. Essentially, it is one day a week at the moment - Saturday as a rule - but this can be flexible. What he wants is to see them one evening a week as well, but I am concerned that that'll be tiring on top of spending a full day Saturday/Sunday with him (bearing in mind we have to Do Something because of the circumstances) and that he envisions every other week I'll take them to him. I think driving 2 hours after school is way too much.

As he has moved so far away, twice a week is unworkable unless he travels up to a neutral place near you.

"turning the situation around" is irrelevant really as he has moved away and can not have unsupervised access. In situations where both parents are equal in competence and both live locally then yes it is reasonable. That is not the case here though.

Supervised contact is rarely a long term solution. If you went down the formal route, they would be looking at supervised contact for a short period (6-8 weeks, or until any checks were completed). In terms of you and the children all moving on it isn't a wise decision to spend time together as a family unit, it's confusing.

That's around four hours travelling each time? Once a week or once a fortnight is enough for him to build a solid relationship with them if it's consistent.

Thanks, soup

I don't completely understand there headoctor - what happens after checks are done (if the checks conclude unsupervised contact isn't applicable.)

We don't spend time together as a family per se. For instance, this weekend DH took my 8 year old skiing; I was in the building with the baby but not breathing down their necks. When DC3 is born I'll be breastfeeding her so will have to be around anyway. DS does understand we aren't together, I promise :)

I assume there are rare cases where long term supervised contact is ordered but that certainly isn't the norm. Usually the non resident parent would be looking to prove their suitability for unsupervised contact perhaps through a parenting programme, DV offenders programme or similar.

It's too much to expect a child to do the two hour journey after school, so no way should that happen, but I think if your ex wants to do the driving and take his older child out for dinner or to do something fun then that's fine.

If anything, more regular contact should be encouraged for your baby and the one on the way, as it will be very difficult for them to build a bond with their father when they only see him once a week. As far as possible, little and often would be in their best interests.

I understand that, but I can't allow completely unsupervised contact.

Thankfully I don't have this problem... but I'm intrigued that you say "I can't allow completely unsupervised contact"

As they are HIS children as much as yours, surely he is perfectly entitled to have equal unsupervised access?

Do you suppose I am doing so out of spite, Dad?

What you have described (your ex being responsible for your DC while doing an activity while you are elsewhere in the building) was described by the magistrates in my DHs case as "contact in the community".

It isn't supervised in as much as your ex is not monitored while with your DS, to prevent rough handling, emotional or verbal abuse, for instance.

I appreciate that you're not willing to share more information, but if, for instance, you are concerned about abduction, then there are other ways the courts protect against that while ensuring the DC can still have a meaningful relationship with their Dad.

Hi Marmalade. I think there are two separate issues here really. The first is the distance; the second your insistence on contact being supervised.

I think what is getting other posters' backs up is that you sound rather haughty by saying that you can't allow unsupervised contact. Although it may be up to you at present, it won't be if it goes through the court system, and the risk there is that you will come across as being controlling and treating the children as your possessions.

However, re. the distance, I don't think you're being unreasonable at all. (I don't necessarily think you're being unreasonable about the need for supervision, but without more information it's impossible to say.) It is very difficult that he has moved so far away, and I think weekly contact is pretty good going, given the distance. (FYI my exH lives a 30 minute drive away and was given 3 nights EOW plus half the holidays; he also takes the DC out for tea once midweek).

What exactly are your concerns re. supervision? As he took the eldest skiing recently, is it the overnight you are concerned with, as it sounds as though he was alone with her then?

Without knowing why you don't want unsupervised contact, it's impossible to say.

OP no-one can say whether this access is fair if you don't tell us the circumstances. For a father to see their children once or possible twice a week obviously isn't fair as it would be 3.5 days each to be fair. But we cannot say as you won't tell us the full facts.

Ptolemy, I think that a bond can be built with only once per week, or less, contact, as long as it is consistent. If a dad is in the armed forces or works away a lot they can stil build a 'bond.'
Your ex can skype the kids etc once a week instead of them being dragged four hours to see them every weekend. I would go for EOW and regular calls / Skype in this situation.

If you are supervising this yourself I'm thinking social services aren't aware otherwise they could arrange supervised contact.............

Maryz - I know I have got upset in the past which is why I've namechanged, it isn't for privacy reasons per se. I haven't tried to hide anything hence I'm identifiable - it's just that there are things I don't feel able to talk about.

At the same time as you'll know from other posts my real life support is limited.

FoodLover - it isn't re abduction. It's more linked to abusiveness of me spilling over to the children. But I am frightened of going into detail as I'm conscious it reflects badly on me too, I guess. I'm certainly not trying to sound haughty and I'm sorry if I did that honestly was not the intended 'tone'!

Well, can't he see them if he comes down your way one evening and takes them out locally for dinner or softplay and then you go up his way on the sat? That way he gets to see them twice a week but not in your house.