Anyone want to talk about emotional abuse?

[notmadafterall]

Hello MNers

Have NC as I want to start fresh, and not have to go through the particulars of what happened to me again. I have had a few threads on here and received wondrous support from the lovely people of Mumsnet (both sexes), who stayed with me during my break up from an EA man.

I am just trying to get my head around it all and was hoping to start a discussion on this awful phenomenon. Perhaps it could be a help to someone out there who is going through it at the moment, or trying to get over it, as I am.

I read the Lundy Bancroft book, which really, really helped. An amazing book which should be on the National Curriculum.

I have read so many threads on here relating to emotional abuse. Its all still fairly new to me and its difficult to understand how it seems to be so rife. Its horrendous.

I was convinced I was crazy for so many years, and now that I have an understanding of what he was doing, I feel such relief. Not mad after all!

So, if anyone wants to share their experiences, or has anything to say about EA, please do.

I personally am particularly interested in how to deal with an EA ex, who is being difficult (we have a small child together).

However I am interested to hear anything about the subject, as I am trying to understand it better. The more I talk about it or read about it, the less crazy I feel. This includes partners - men or women, and families, friends, parents etc.

I hope people respond to this thread as I think its such an important thing to understand and get out there. I had no idea it was a "thing" up until a few months ago. Now that I know about it, the last 10+ years make more sense.

I look forward to any replies

Treckyex it's depends on the person, i stupidly told my ex her behavior was abusive and she just said at least she doesn't get angry. Some people just don't want to change as it's to hard.

She had a difficult childhood, think her mother was controlling which is why she developed a passive aggressive personality, she actually thinks this is a very good way of behaving as she doesn't get angry and shout at anyone. Instead she cuts you down to size with comments she can pretent were harmless. Unfortunately i am to sensitive to them.

I grew up in a family like that and was very good at cutting people down with passive aggressive, cruel remarks. It was just normal. Everyone did it. There was kudos in saying the most nasty thing....a sense of having "won" or shut them up.

It was my survival mechanism, to survive their attacks on me.

Horrible. And I didn't even know. I didn't even know how weird it was.

That fact staggers me now. I look back, with this "helicopter" view of it all and it renders me speechless. This is why I am NC with my family. They all still do this. It's horrible. Just horrible.

Queen, that's why I knew I had to split up with him. I didn't want my son growing up in a tense and argumentative environment. Nor for him to grow up thinking it's okay to treat women / people in this awful way. I'm so sorry you had to go through that, it sounds horrible

It was when they started on my ds that I knew I had to DO something. I still worry that he internalised and normalised it all.

The thing that makes me feel a little better was that a lot of very abusive people have attachment issues....John Bowlby is the go to author on this stuff.

I breast fed for a year and he was a permanent fixture on my hip, I talked baby talk and did stories and walks and all the "normal" stuff. I was mocked, criticised and labelled as "mad". I hope that my "madness" was enough to have prevented abusiveness, personality disorder or any of the other markers for abusers.

Queen, they sound vile. Well done for cutting them out of your life, it must have been terribly hard. But you did it for your child, and for you. You've broken the circle of abuse. I did the same with my father. It's hard.

Honestly, my faith in men is on the floor right now. There isn't a one that I know who is right. My friends partners, my colleagues, my relatives partners, they all seem abusive to me. I hope I'm wrong but it's just how it seems. They are controlling, selfish, jealous, possessive.

How can I regain my faith in men, how can I ever think about having another relationship? I am happy by myself and my child now, but I get very sad when I think I'll never feel loved by a partner, never know what it's really like, I'll die alone etc.

There is a saying..."Your vibe attracts your tribe"

I think there is truth in it. This is why working on yourself is the key.

Porous boundaries, women are socialised to give way and give way until there is nothing left. We have to stop it!

Women who do this used to seem VERY frightening and hard to me, but now I can see that it is healthy, and to be pursued!

trickyex I sent a brief letter to my ex recently outlining the EA, particularly events around the past few years and my PND/our child. I had to confront it, and him about it, because he never allowed me to, or acknowledged it. It was pretty scary. I felt like someone had kicked me in the stomach for days afterwards. Then I felt guilty. (As well as thinking WTF are you feeling guilty?)

I didn't want a reply and stopped his attempt at discussion about it, so I have no idea what he thinks, but that wasn't the point; the point was that I'd realised I really, really needed to say my piece, even just the once, and to know that he'd read it was enough for me, for now.

I would say that if you know it would trigger any safety issues at all - DON'T. If it's going to make your ex angry and turn up on your doorstep, that isn't safe.

I was scared of retaliation via being awkward about our child and arrangements, or "benefits" we have agreed on like swapping weeks for holidays. I knew that he wouldn't phone me, or turn up ranting. I took control of the aftermath by refusing to get into a discussion about it, so he couldn't defend his actions, or try to explain them, or make me feel worse by suggesting I'd imagined it, or I was oversensitive. It was by no means easy but I think I'm just starting to feel a little bit better now, after a very angry day yesterday. Anger is good, it's almost like sticking up for yourself. But it's too exhausting to maintain, so I feel fizzled out a bit.

I've just started counselling today and I've told her I need to work out how to stop my past affecting my present. I'm desperate to move on and not have it hanging around like a shadow in my head.

I understand about the vibe thing, that abusers will be attracted to a certain type of woman (I think!?)

But I just don't get it. What is this vibe? I am and have always come across as a confident, happy, bubbly person. That's what people say anyway. So what is it about me that attracts this type of man? How can I change?

Although to be fair, I think I have changed a lot over the last year and especially in the last 3 to 6 months. I've had counselling but not sure if that's helped, maybe it has in an unconscious way.

ohso, good luck with the counselling today. It's a step in the right direction, well done for getting this far. Let us know how you go.

notmad thank you, I had my session early this afternoon. Sorry if that wasn't clear! It went ok. I did feel I could open up to her after all (after not getting a good vibe on the phone.) I'm very clear on what I need to work on, and she seems to get that. I'll be intrigued to see how our session goes next week.

As for you, the way to change is probably therapy too. CBT to look at your patterns of behaviour in your love life (which can be the complete opposite of how you are with your friends.) and identify the roots of where they came from, whether that is childhood or a bit later on (I think CBT states that a lot of learned behaviours and personal beliefs are established by the age of 16 or so) It is amazing to discover a link between, say - your dad shouting at you as a teen and shutting down when anyone raises their voice now, as an adult.

I was the same - confident and bubbly with my friends who loved me for who I was. A disaster usually, with my love life. Thankfully I knew what I no longer wanted towards the end of our 10 years together, and I found a good man who I got to know, and I can trust implicitly. I know that I am lucky. I have a lot of single female friends who are struggling to find someone good through careful online dating or friends of friends, and I really wish I could find them a bloke as nice as my partner. He isn't perfect but any problems are down to little quirks, nothing serious or damaging - and we talk about everything.

No sorry it was clear, I misread what you said. Glad it went well today!

It's horrible, the way I think about men in general. Horrible. I don't want to think this way. When someone says their fella is a good un, I just automatically think "well, it hasn't happened yet, but he will soon show himself to be a git" or I think "she hasn't noticed what a git he is yet" or "she's just lying to herself"

I know this is completely irrational. And I know women are as bad as men, it shouldn't be about gender. But to me, it is. I just don't trust a one of them. I truly can't think of one bloke I've ever met who has made me change my mind on that. I've been thinking about it a lot, thinking about all the men I've met (not just romantically, but friends' and relatives' partners, colleagues, friends of friends, friends' fathers, uncles, whatever)

It's probably just a bad coincidence that all these men have crossed my path, and no good ones.

With regards to counselling, I can't afford it. In regards to cbt., can I get it free?

Ha, I can't pay either love, believe me. Mental health services are free on the NHS but you need to get that referral going like yesterday - go see your GP, that is the gateway to starting the process. If you know which GP is the "nicest" at your surgery, be sure to book in with them. Be clear you are a survivor of emotional abuse, you're struggling and you NEED help. (If your GP is ace and lovely then great, but I have met many a GP who was pretty gruff, they are time poor and can be a bit jaded.) Don't hold back.

Since it's sounding like pretty clear belief systems ("men are like this" and patterns of how you are in relationships, or attracting wrong kind of men) then it sounds to me like CBT is for you.

Waiting lists vary wildly (hence me saying get that referral in yesterday) but I waited six months. It was a long six months.

Sorry I just realised how that might have sounded, of course I believe deep down that you have found a good man. After what you've been through, you could spot a bad one at 10 paces. I hope I didn't sound rude or horrible I didn't mean it that way. I just wanted to convey the warped way my mind works. My deep subconscious knows it's rubbish, but I cannot help my thoughts. It's horrible.

I went to my doc before Christmas, asking for counselling. She refused, and prescribed me anti depressant instead. She said I "wasn't ready" for counseling.

I didn't take the pills, and got 6 sessions of counselling free through work instead.

I suppose I should go back to the doc and ask again. Feel a bit daft going in and saying I need therapy for working on future relationships though.

Oh that's ok! I have a pretty thick skin and also, I understood what you meant.

One of my single friends who is dating a very nice man is struggling with the same thing. She had a sh!t of a husband and then a bad boyfriend, lots of bad behaviour - so although it sounds like this is a good one, she's very dubious and keeps thinking he might be pretending. I don't know how to help her with that right now except to say that time should hopefully prove his consistency (it is early days) and she plans to run him past her jury of female friends whose spidey sense for any nonsense is turned up to 11 (e.g. ME)

I also meant to say that counselling, CBT etc are all available on the NHS via your local Community Mental Health Team (CMHT) and you start via your GP making the referral. Hope that makes sense. You may also have some community counselling services that are free. And Women's Aid of course. (I'm still waiting for that one too.)

If I ever start seeing anyone in the future, I'm coming to find you, ohso!!

Just read your message. YOUR GP IS CRAP. Do not accept that. How could she possibly assess whether you are ready for counselling? What rubbish. That makes me really annoyed. GPs can do basic assessments of a person's mental health but they are not specialists. My previous GP offered me antidepressants as a way to help while I was waiting for therapy.

I worked in mental health for 8 years, I was not a practitioner but I learned a hell of a lot about gateways to mental health for counselling and all mental health services. A good GP is the key to a good start. I saw some shockingly bad GPs and some amazing ones. Just like people, there are good ones and bad ones.

This is what I mean by seeing a good GP, a nice one. Ask around for advice on good surgeries in your area, and who the nice GPs are there. You are free to change surgeries!

I had counselling through work when I twice went off with work related stress, it was part of the employee health and wellbeing package they had. It was ok but not enough. I'm sure it helped you a bit.

Sorry, x-posts.

1. That's an idea! Might start a free judging panel to women for new partners to pass the board. I'm pretty good at reading people.

1. Women's Aid - refer yourself. You can call them tomorrrow. Or just call the helpline for a chat first if you're not sure.

1. YOUR GP IS CRAP. Sorry, had to say that again.

Apologies, one more PS post before I get back to work and then make some tea...

When I say your GP is crap notmad, I should have added (just in case) that it's in no way a criticism of you. The very fact that you are feeling reluctant to go back and see her means she's not done a good job in handling your situation.

You come across as being a bit hesitant and wondering whether you can ask for her help, not surprising given your history. And if you told her about the emotional abuse, and that you are struggling, in my opinion a decent GP would:

a) recognise that you are a bit fragile and be very sensitive to that, e.g. not tell you things like "you're not ready for counselling" and shut you down when it was already hard to ask for help

b) offer to refer into local CMHT for an assessment because they are the ones that work out what you need in terms of your mental health, not the GP - and also, she would know what waiting lists are like, and personally I find it appalling that she would not get the referral process started, knowing that... (that is not your fault! Not one bit.)

c) also offer information on a few other services in your area you could look into, be it Women's Aid or community counselling services.

OK, enough said for now! x

I think abusers can recognise some of the signs even if they wouldn't call it abuse.

Things my ex did regularly included:

• shouting at me for not doing the washing up properly
• shouting at me for not arranging the kitchen cupboards properly
• making me return to the house to redo my hair in a style he liked
• making me wear clothes he'd bought me that I didn't like
• constant criticism for not joining in with things he liked doing. I had to adopt all his hobbies but he didn't want to do any of mine and moaned if I ever tried to get him to join in with me.
• resenting me going to visit my family. Not liking that I had a good relationship with my wider family (uncles, aunts, cousins). He rarely saw his wider family so he didn't understand why I saw mine. Ditto with my work friends and other friends.

His mum was a hellish nightmare and was awful to me; he rowed with her constantly but god forbid I ever dare say anything against her. And constant nagging about the way I looked, dressed, ate, walked, my job, everything. It was relentless.

Years after we broke up, he rang me for advice on his new relationship (!!) He said 'I'm rowing with her all the time and I wanted to know, did you and I row like that and am I doomed to repeat this pattern?'

I said 'yes we were always rowing, yes you were always having a go at me and yes it is a pattern you need to break!' He didn't believe it - in his memory we where always getting on fine, and he remembered the relationship as a mainly positive one.

I didn't quite say the words EA in so many words, but I made it clear I thought he had big issues he needed to work on.

Good luck to anyone going through this. I feel very lucky I got away and enjoyed a few years of independence which really helped me get my confidence back. And then met DH!

Sorry what I meant to add, is that if I'd laid all those examples of mistreatment out before my ex and said 'this is abuse', he would have denied it. He just saw it as having very high & exacting standards. But the fact he rang me for advice later on suggests he knew at some level that he had some issues to deal with.

From what I have learned it is way more subconscious than that. I mentioned John Bowlby and his work on attachment before....that is a good place to start...if you can be bothered!

I wouldn't do CBT, it's deeper than that. A counsellor who knows specifically about abuse is the way forward IMHO. Relearning, rebooting systems learned before the age of 6 and earlier....sorry! This is working for me at any rate.

:)

CBT is very deep too. I agree that a asking for counsellor who has experience of abuse is a good idea, and being involved with a specialist service like Women's Aid, but CBT is absolutely brilliant for analysing patterns of behaviour and our deeply rooted personal belief system. It helped me get through PND, deep rooted anxiety and a very bad childhood, and helped me to leave my EA relationship. Just saying.

Women's Aid don't offer individual therapy in my area, just groups for survivors, for which there is a long waiting list. I'm not sure how I'll find a group setting, and I'm still waiting but I'll give it a go.

The problem is, there is only so much free help you can access so you have to try different things, and give what you get a chance. Unless you can pay, which not many of us can. It's not right, it's tough but it's true.

I am many years out of my ea relationship (no children with him), but just reading this thread has made my chest feel tight with anxiety.

It's like remembering living in a different world. Your world becomes really small because of all the things you don't do any more. All your energy, whether you realise it or not, is devoted to coping in your strange and ever changing little bubble of abuse. There's quite a lot I'd like to contribute, but don't have time just now so will return later.

One common theme I've seen on here is how amazed the abused woman is that she of all people has found herself in this position. Somebody posted earlier about the vibe attracting the tribe. If I think about the other women I know, there does seem to be a type of person who finds themself in this position. This is in no way to attach blame to them, just to observe that the abuser may well consciously or otherwise "see" the type of person they feel they can control. Does anyone have any thoughts on this ?

I have had the very limited amount of counselling available on the NHS, which was ok, but the real work has been done with a private therapist who is a specialist in abuse. Yes, it has cost me a fortune, but I am so worth this. I have lost my life effectively, and I damned well want some back before I die!

I can now see how I was that woman who attracted not one, but two abusive husbands. There is a common denominator there....me.

It is easy to see how abusers are in denial....not so easy to see our own. Our own core beliefs, our own narrative, the narrative of the families we were born into.

Funny, I was talking about this this very day, how some people can see what's wrong, but it never occurs to them that they can DO something to change it.

It's like remembering living in a different world. Your world becomes really small because of all the things you don't do any more. All your energy, whether you realise it or not, is devoted to coping in your strange and ever changing little bubble of abuse.

This is so true. It's exhausting. I felt like my ex was trying to keep me in a very small box. He's only been gone a month, I am so damaged after 19 years of emotional, physical, financial and verbal abuse. To outsiders I probably look like I'm doing remarkably well, but inside it's a bomb site. How the hell do I ever recover from this?