Feminism - thoughts?

[tyuiobnm]

I am quite traditional. I don't really understand women who are so keen to 'be equal' to men. I understand that equal pay etc is something that needed to be addressed...but seriously, in today's world, is any of that even an issue anymore?

Without going into huge amounts of analysis, I think the very fact women are feminists, undermines women completely. I have a good job and feel happy with my life, and as a result I'm proud to be a woman...I enjoy organising the home, cooking and cleaning... and although I know it's not the same for everyone, I think generally women are much better and more in tune with these kinds of tasks.

There are also lots of reasons why women and men are, and always will be different. IMO I think people should get over it.

On a recent date - not sure how we got onto this topic - but the guy was very surprised I wasn't a feminist. I found this extremely unattractive.

Thoughts/opinions?

Apologies OP for the derailment here.

what are the women in these countries doing about equality though? what are the women doing in these countries doing about poverty? are they just puppets?

What were white women doing for the last 5000 years when they were being subjugated and oppressed? Why did it take so long for them to rise up?

My feeling is that women tend to be more obedient than men, to focus on being good girls, good wives, good mothers, even good bad girls. Historically that has led to an acceptance of the status quo, and a timidty in challenging the patriarchal inequality and injustice.

Western women have only thrown off the old slave mentality in the last 150 years. Indeed the Feminist movement in the US grew out of the the anti-slavery movement and women who had campaigned to free slaves turned their attention to free themselves. Western women have had two world wars on their side that really opened up society and women were forced into work.

Erm, can I just point out that subjugation causes obedience? That's kind of the objective: disobedience = death or worse. The "timidity" was/is mostly about survival.

Im not really into the past to be honest. Its done. The now and future is what we all should look to. History is just that.

Your forefathers did that, English were bastards 100 hundred years ago. Blah blah blah, move on! Funny that everyone flocks to England now. I wonder why?

OP, if you feel you are better at housework and raise kids then feel free to live that life. But some of us want to break free from the gender stereo type. One should value the individual for who they are, a person is more than a gender. There are other ways to live life - jobs, cooking, cleaning, raising kids are important parts but there is a lot more to it.

If you are saying women are better at cooking, you only need to see how many professional chefs are men - they can be so much better at cooking. Do you think men don't get involved in cleaning businesses? They surely know how its done inside out. Many men excel in the skills/tasks you say women are better at.

IMO, if you can't see why people would like to live differently, you are missing on the bigger picture.

Because we are a very tiny accepting Island and of that I am proud. We have been called racists, we have been called any amount of names due to our culture and our colour by others joining us. This acceptance is wearing thin and rightly so.

Pretty

Often there are lessons to be learned and parallels to be drawn with history.

I Doubt we will ever agree so I'll leave you to it.

I don't disagree that subjugation causes obedience but obedience causes continued subjugation...

It really seems no lessons have been learned other than accusations at the moment and people that cannot leave the past where it needs to be left. So yes we are going to have to agree to disagree Yonic. An invite and a sorry will never be enough for a lot of people.

But I disagree timidity is about survival. It's the tough and the courageous who survive, that's as much true of women as of men.

Pretty if you can't remember the past you are doomed to repeat it.

The past is the key to understanding the present, how we got to where we are now.

50 years later it still hasn't eased, no one has "blended" no culture has actually become harmonised. English people have been totally suffocated in their own country.

I know the past Twinklestein.

I had a decent wage 20 years ago.
I had my family close by.
I had friends close by.

Now my son could never ever dream of owning a house, my community as an English person living in England is gone.

My father fought in the war for me and our country, he's now turning in his grave.

I hope it changes, something needs to happen. We will have no more national health service due to immigration, we will have nothing. I am voting UKIP this year and rightly so.

Im sick to death of being "censored" in my own country.

Im sure I'll be kicked off now for being non multicultural. But my last message is. I would not dream of going to another country and expect that culture to abide by MY rules. I would not dream of going to another country and use their good nature to get what I wanted and give nothing back. I would not dream of going to another country and preach hate for them. Its disgusting and wrong and I as an English person no longer want to accommodate this.

No im also not going to apologise to the op again for this derailment either because she doesn't warrant my respect from a womans point of view.

You seem to be in your own thread Pretty, never mind conversation.

Agree with vivatia. What the hell was pretty's rant?

England isn't a tiny island. Look at a map PF.

This tiny island isn't all England. It jars with me when someone ignores the other nations involved and assumes that the default position is that Britain = England, that Britain = white.

Your community was only the way it was because it used power and oppression to strip resources from other countries and races. You can ignore history all you like and vote for whoever the hell you like but you have no right to expect anyone else to listen to you or to afford your views any respect.

I thought (a few pages ago, before it all got a bit heated) that SGB's point was quite valid in that your Clarksons & co, affluent, able-bodied, white, middle-aged males in England in the 21st century, "dare" to stand up and say rude things about people who are not in that position of privilege, when really there isn't a lot of daring involved under the circumstances.

Likewise the OP, taking them at face value as I suppose we must, seems unaware of the amazing privilege it is to have the choice of whether to be a homemaker or a breadwinner or a bit of both, to have children (fertility permitting) or not, to negotiate with a future partner how to divide the power in the relationship, and so on. This privilege was fought for by many women in the past, is a continuing battle, some still don't have it and sadly many never will.

So the OP stands up and says "well actually I'd quite like to do the cooking and cleaning while someone else goes out and earns the money," that's nice dear, but in what way does it suggest the struggle is over, we're all where we need to be? Oh except for that pesky unequal pay issue of course, but even that is ok if you take into consideration the fact that only women can biologically give birth and are therefore, inevitably, going to take time off around that. (Sometimes only a few hours off mind you, sometimes a couple of weeks; maternity rights aren't universal, and who fought for the ones we have? Men, of course. Oh wait...)

I'd like to know how far back the PrettyFeet history veto goes.

I'm from Northern Ireland originally (yup, another one who wouldn't be in England if you guys hadn't owned my country for centuries) - if I forget Drogheda, is it OK if I remember Bloody Sunday?

As a feminist - is it OK if I remember that marital rape was legal until 1991 (and the stink the Mail kicked up about it being made illegal ), as long as I forget the suffragettes?

Also wanted to say to Joysmum...

I worked for years in a largely male environment. I move quietly and have sharp ears.

Believe me, men are discussing your appearance, your make-up, the size of your boobs, your clothes, your fuckability... they're just not doing it to your face.

Bloody hell, forget TAATs, this is a TWAT (thread within a thread)

PrettyFeet, I'm sorry for what happened to you, really I am, but it doesn't change the fact that in this country straight white men hold most of the power and privilege. Your posts about the crimes against women in other cultures don't change that. Yes some women in some cultures have it far worse than we do (and not at the hands of white men), but that doesn't mean we shouldn't continue to strive for equality here. I'm not sure I've ever met a feminist in the UK who doesn't also support an end to FGM, or any other abuses of women all over the world.