Wedding trauma - forced to choose between sister and son

[greencottage]

Sorry this is long - need to give a bit of background. It's been going on for weeks and I really need some help.

DS moved to a distant foreign city (other side of the world) in January to start a postgrad degree. The only person he knew in that city (where he'd never been before) was my DSis, who lives there and who has been a wonderful aunt to him and like a second mother all his life. I think, fairly naturally, he and I both hoped that she would be able to give him a bit of help settling in in this new city, e.g. give him somewhere to stay while he found uni accommodation. Well, that didn't happen as she and her new partner decided they had to go on holiday at that time. Was a bit disappointed, but anyway he got on with it, found a friend of a friend who let him stay while he found a flat.

Move forward a couple of weeks, and DSis comes back from holiday. DS asks if he can visit and stay for a few days as he would like to spend family time with DSis and also felt he had stayed long enough at friend-of-friend's house (he was moving into his new flat in five days). She says yes, so he goes to her house.

By day 2 the atmosphere is unbearable. Partner of DSis does not like having him in the house and puts a him-or-me ultimatum on DSis. DSis crumbles and kicks DS out, literally onto the street, giving him an inflatable mattress and a few pans and towels. He manages to get into the flat a couple of days early and camps out until his furniture arrives. In the meantime DSis sends hysterical emails left, right and centre telling everyone how appalling DS is (not true). Her DP sends me an incredible email telling me he's lucky he wasn't chucked out with a black eye and I should take off my rose tinted glasses about him. Apparently amongst his sins were "expecting to be fed". Please take this in the context of 1. my family is always warm and hospitable to each other, 2. they are not short of money so could certainly afford an extra place at the table, 3. DS is basically a broke student, 4. he brought the usual kind of contributions and helped out around the house like any well-mannered guest.

All very upsetting and I cannot believe that my much loved sister has behaved like this towards her nephew who she has always cherished. Literally cannot believe it. Still I am trying to make a reconciliation and just ask her to apologise to DS. No apology is forthcoming, well a little bit to me but not to him.

Now for the wedding related bit. I am going to visit DS at Easter. This has been planned for many months. With this date in mind DSis organised her wedding to the above mentioned partner for when I was there. I love my sister and want to support her and celebrate her wedding. But I feel she has basically sacrificed my son to her partner's whims. Her DP has also grossly insulted me and DS (sent DS an email saying he was never welcome again). She has also rescinded the wedding invite to DS. I just need to say again, what a long and loving relationship she has had with DS all his life, so this is just an unbelievable turn of events.

DS says he will feel betrayed and unsupported if I go to the wedding. Elderly DM is having a hysterical breakdown at the family fall-out. DSis says I should support her, even if she acknowledges she did the wrong thing (which she kind of does), as she has supported me in past difficult times (true). I've heard nothing from DSis partner who is at the bottom of all this and who sent me the horrible email. I don't particularly want to ever see him, but I don't want to destroy my relationship with my sister. I also don't want to betray my son's trust.

What do I do? Son or Sister? Wedding - yes or no?

wait a minute, they uninvited him because they had a disagreement? I think asking him to leave out of their home should be good enough... but uninviting him seem immature. Unless your son did something that was worthy enough not to invite (violent, name-calling, controlling, shouting, etc.) to keep the wedding at peace.

as a matter of principle, he needs to be re-invited to the wedding of course he doesn't - you need to let that bit of the saga go.

Son and No. End of conversation.

From OPs initial post:-

"Partner of DSis does not like having him in the house and puts a him-or-me ultimatum on DSis. DSis crumbles and kicks DS out, literally onto the street, giving him an inflatable mattress and a few pans and towels. He manages to get into the flat a couple of days early and camps out until his furniture arrives. In the meantime DSis sends hysterical emails left, right and centre telling everyone how appalling DS is (not true). Her DP sends me an incredible email telling me he's lucky he wasn't chucked out with a black eye and I should take off my rose tinted glasses about him. Apparently amongst his sins were "expecting to be fed".

What sort of person anyway gives such an ultimatum after two days?.

I fail to see how anyone can think that OPs sister's man is not abusive given the above. Its a great shame Greencottage that your sister did not choose her nephew above this man she is wanting to marry. It is not without co-incidence that he has not spoken to OPs family since; he got what he wanted and that is for your sister to become further isolated.

On that definitive note from Iamatotalidiot, I have to work now. Will check back later. Thanks for your help.

students may not care about weddings, but I think they do care about rejections (uninvite, kicking them out , etc.)

Thanks Attila. I agree.

Your sister didn't actually throw him out of the street, though, she gave him a mattress, towels and pots and pans. In other words, she kitted him out temporarily to help him! This doesn't quite fit with the throwing him out scenario at all, it suggests she realised he couldn't stay there (for whatever reason, awful controlling husband, rudeness of son, we don't know) and then helped him to move on to his rented flat by giving him stuff.

Also, you are being quite coy about what your son did say, it's one thing for raised voices with my own children, but not something I could tolerate from anyone else, you say he was 'hot-headed' and shouldn't have 'engaged' but he did and ultimately shouting opinionated twenty something men aren't something I'd want in my house even if my husband was a bit of a twat.

Yes, this new man obviously is bad news, but I wouldn't be looking to lose a sister over it, everyone is right about keeping the lines of communication open there.

See your sister when you are there, don't email again about it (and if anyone emails you, say you think writing it down is destructive and you don't want to email further on the issue which you are hoping you can all get over).

And blueberrypie, that is exactly what I think too - he doesn't really give two hoots about actually going to a wedding,. Of course not! But he does care a lot about being hurt and disregarded by someone he loves. As anyone would.

(Now I really have to go).

Kind of reached a conclusion when my DM finally divorced my controlling, abusive stepfather! So my radar for this kind of thing is very acute. But it also made me realise how much we all had to dance to the strings of my stepfather and mother in some ways. He would do something really awful or be angry with one of us. Mother upset. We would all dance around getting upset as well. Apologies would be demanded. Despair at situation. High days and holidays ruined. Tears at weddings and christenings…

I don't know how all this would have been fixed earlier. Perhaps if we'd all made a stand against him and been braver - but we knew he would make it worse for my DM so we didn't… Perhaps we were just cowards. Now he is out of our lives it still has ripples on us, and we all had counselling which helped.

So I don't know how to say what to do in your situation really. It's hard to know how controlling he is without knowing exactly what happened in the argument and what he is like. I guess the best thing to do is to try and keep 'your' family together and that if this is all causing you traumas (including your DM) then see how much you can patch together. There are no easy solutions, but meeting with your Dsis and DS is a good start.

btw, my sister have a Master degree and even she is very opinionated. She says that her college makes her think differently (for some, they would translate this as "she thinks she is better than us" but whatever) and sometimes it does get her in a argument with people. She likes debates. so if your son is in college, I wouldn't be surprised if he is doing the same.

Another vote for son, and no.

If it came to a choice, I would pick my son. It sounds as if he was not at fault (until the heated words) and was shabbily treated by his aunt and her fiancé.

But I do suspect that the posters who have raised the spectre of an abusive relationship between your dsis and her fiancé are probably correct, and in those circumstances, I agree with Quangle and others who have suggested you explain this to your son, and tell him that being at the wedding would mean the door was open between you and your sister, so that she can reach out to you when and if she realises what her fiancé/dh is like, and needs help, but that not going to the wedding could create a rift that would stop her reaching for your help - and that could leave her isolated, at the mercy of an abusive spouse.

Your ds sounds like a reasonably mature, loving young man - I wouldmhope he could understand this rationale, and accept that you were attending the wedding to maintain that connection between you and your sister, but that your attendance did not imply any approval of the actions of your dsis or her fiancé.

I doubt his friend chucked him out. I think he knowledge that he overwelcome his stay at his friend and it was time to go.

I don't think you have to make a choice. I think that you should tell your son that you are completely on his side and that your sister and her dp have behaved appallingly. Then you should ask him, would he please consider whether it's worth you cutting contact with your sibling (because that would be the effect of not going to the wedding) when she is potentially/probably in an abusive relationship and upsetting your elderly mother whilst you are at it.

I don't really understand why your ds cannot "suck up" you going to a wedding, safe in the knowledge that you're on his side and just doing it to prevent a complete family fracture and to prevent innocent elderly family members from upset. If he is unwilling to accept you going to the wedding for the reasons I've just stated, then I do suspect that he was not entirely blameless in the original rows at your sister's house. This is added to the fact that you are a free person and your son is trying to ban you from doing something that would not impact him in the slightest.

Ok let's forget that your ds is still a young adult. The point is he is an adult who is happy to go to live in his own in a foreign country so I would expect him to be able to stand on his two feet.

How he reacts, how hurt he feels as well as what he wants to do is his decision.
How you react and how hurt you are by these events is yours.

No one should ever put you in a situation where you have to 'chose' and tbh this is what your ds is doing when he says he would feel hurt if you are going.
He and his aunt need to see if they can find a solution. This can be facilitated by you.
You and your sister need to sort things out and that includes deciding if you are going to her wedding, if her actions are so out of character that they should be forgiven, or if her DP is actually controlling in which case you might WANT to be at the wedding even more.
But nothing has ever said that both you and your ds should reach the same conclusion.

And then you have her DP and you might want to also decide what is your attitude towards him. Which again is a different matter than your ds or your sister.

I've known middle aged men who would behave like this. Their authority and very high sense of self worth is challenged by a young male upstart in their own castle. So they assert their Alpha male status by throwing the young upstart out, teaching him a lesson, withdrawing favours. These men are not nice, but they don't necessarily abuse their wives, though they do expect to be the one in charge.
I wouldn't mess up your relationship with your Dsis over this. And son wasn't blameless - I'd guess that he misread the way that the family dynamics worked, he challenged the alpha male, he maybe pushed his luck. I don't think that he should be demanding you to put your relationship with your Dsis on the line. And he will enjoy his time abroad more if both of you keep relations going with her.

I think if you can approach this calmly and be prepared to listen, you can build bridges again. My family used to always be in destruction mode and it's not healthy for anyone and I really regret all the "I'll never speak to her agains" or the "if he's going, I'm not goings".

Kind of reached a conclusion when my DM finally divorced my controlling, abusive stepfather!

Lula, sorry, maybe I shouldn't quote this back at you, but what you've shared now paints what you said earlier in a very different light.

Your family was in destruction mode because of an abusive, controlling man. He was the problem, not all the other stuff - the other stuff was only the result of an abusive man being enabled. He was the thing that wasn't healthy for anyone.

I'm only pointing this out because I think it means your take on it all and the advice you're giving is a bit skewed. You read to me like someone who has the very best of intentions and a very kind heart, but who hasn't got out of the ingrained mindset of appeasing, enabling and tolerating the bully. Of imagining it could all somehow be put right if only people would be civilised.

You know, from your later post, you know that's not true. All the drama your family went through, it wasn't the fault of you or your siblings, it wasn't because you were being unreasonable or because you lacked courage. It was the fault of an abusive, predatory man who got his claws into a presumably vulnerable woman, and made her life and her children's lives miserable. It wasn't your responsibility to sort it out, nor was it within your power to do so.

I'm sorry you went through that and I'm glad your mother finally found the strength to get rid of him. I applaud you for getting counselling around it. But I think it might still be affecting the way you see things more than you realise.

Sorry for total hijack.

Briefly read this thread choose your son! Your sister has clearly made her priorities clear if you choose the sister you'll be left without a sister and your son.
Agree with others your sister sounds like shes in abusive relationship. Let her know the doors always open but your son comes first.

I can see no circumstances when I would chuck anyone out in the street- let alone my nephews and nieces who i would always feel in a parent like role towards.

However i would need to understand what really went on in your situation - expecting to be fed - may mean expected to be treated as guest in a hotel vs expecting there to be food available. I was a bit concerned by your first comment re expecting her and her partner to look after DS when he first went there and your reaction when they were away. Your DS is a grown up and it doesn't seem like you regard him as one. I am not sure what kind of relationship your sister has with DS as an adult versus when he was a child. Sometimes it is difficult as a grown man reverts to expecting to be treated like a child/babied a bit in family situations.
I do think he is putting pressure on you not to go as well - emotional blackmail.

re the abusive BIL- I don't know enough- it isn't clear what he has done versus what your sister has done.

LegoSuperstar - agree with you totally. They can't treat your son like this and expect you to turn up at the wedding all smiles.
Send a card and a gift but stay away unless your son is welcome too. They can't split up your family like this.

Talkinginthedark - you have a point! Completely. I have seen first hand how stroppy controlling men can dominate entire families. But that also everyone running around trying to appease or get upset, or, in my case often to nettle them even more, can just cause a maelstrom of angst. And it's often the people who have nothing to do with the row who end up getting hurt the most.

I have also seen how everything has two sides and that it's not as simple as goodies vs baddies sometimes. The only thing I'd say about this DP of the Dsis is that although sounds like a complete twunt, I think knowing what the argument was would be interesting before fully coming down on the side of him being a bully.
OP - if he is a bully then I hope you can have some kind of reconciliation with your sister so you can support her.

If your son had done something wrong, I think OP that you would have been told in clear terms what it was. The fact that no precise account of his bad behaviour seems to have emerged after all the toing and froing suggests to me there really wasn't any misdeed by your son that could possibly justify throwing him out.

I think that meeting your sister with your DS and trying to work things out away from the wedding is a good idea.

OPs son has not banned her from going to this wedding.

I do not think her son did anything wrong here other than being in a house where her man really did not want him; him being the Big Man here asserted his bullying nature and by day 2 as well. What sort of person does this?.

OPs sister meekly went along with his wishes. Both of them completely overreacted; she has also gone onto rescind her nephew's invite. She did sacrifice OPs son to her man's whims (she has subsequently admitted this to the OP as well upon being asked).