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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

The crying and the begging....

752 replies

Toastandstrawberryjam · 04/03/2015 00:03

Sorry can't link to previous posts but DH moved out a month ago today. After years of EA I finally saw the light. He wanted it to be temporary and I thought there was a slim chance of that.

He was distraught when he left, crying, pleading. It was torture seeing him like that.

He was like it the first two weeks even in front of the DC. Then he seemed to get better. Tonight he was much worse. Holding onto ME at the front door and crying. He even asked if he could take my jumper with him as it smelled of me and he could take it to bed with him.

I'm not sure if he's genuinely upset or if this is all a big act. He's seeing a counsellor who keeps telling him our marriage is fixable. I don't think this is helping. He's lost a lot of weight in the month, he looks ill and exhausted and I am so sad.

I don't know how to help him deal with this. The only thing he wants is for me to tell him to come back and I just can't do that.

OP posts:
HootyMcTooty · 04/03/2015 17:44

If he's coming round most days to see the DC then it seems that he's using this to maintain control over you, he's just changing his tactics. It's been a month and he's claiming to be a changed man, do you realise how unlikely that is?

You've come so far so don't allow him to drag you back in.

Stop the contact at your house, set up custody arrangements so he can see the DC, but not in your house, not on your time. You can minimise contact with him, even with DC. Obviously it's not ideal, but if he can't be trusted to accept the situation as you present it, you need to keep him away from you.

currentnameinuse · 04/03/2015 17:48

A male solicitor can be a good thing. Mine was male and was nothing short of amazing. After less than 5 minutes talking he knew I had been abused and totally understood and supported me immensely. I would def have meetings with a couple to see how you get on though as it is v important to have someone you trust and can get on with.

Miele72 · 04/03/2015 17:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

GoatsDoRoam · 04/03/2015 18:11

Abusive partners definitely have issues with being rejected...

It isn't so much stages of grief, but rather that they cycle through all the different tools of manipulation when they feel their victim is slipping from their control: pleading, threatening, denying, blaming, martyrdom, tantrums, and sometimes violence. And they can switch from one tool to another, and back again, with astonishing swiftness.

chimchimini · 04/03/2015 18:27

He is an absolute piece of shit and you HAVE to stop talking to him. He is no longer your responsibility. Please tell the solicitor the full details of the abuse. It would be interesting to see what the solicitor makes of unsupervised contact with the kids. There is no way on this earth I'd let a rapist and abusive man near mine.

Not letting him in will sort the unwanted touching. Get some locks and bolts on those doors.

Original poster
Toastandstrawberryjam · 04/03/2015 18:31

A few practical questions if anyone can help?
Do I have to have reasons for divorce ready prepared for tomorrow?
How can I find out what other benefits I can get? I've phoned up and got my child benefit back today :)

OP posts:
NettleTea · 04/03/2015 18:38

just from talking to you they will be able to pull many many 'unreasonables' out that you have a choice to use.
It may be worth a quick call to WA just to see if they recommend anyone locally - solicitors who understand abuse will have seen the script played out many many times and will be able to see straight through his manipulations. They also will not try to suggest any mediation

ouryve · 04/03/2015 18:41

Have them outlined. Whoever you appoint will firm them up with you, when the time comes. You have a lot to cover in that half hour, though.

Look at the entitledto website for an indication of what benefits you'd get and roughly how much. At a minimum you'd get tax credits. if you move out and rent, in the future, you may be entitled to some housing benefit. Of course, the details would probably be different if you're in an area that already has universal credit for new claimants.

Someone else also mentioned the single person's council tax reduction - 25%, so not to be sniffed at.

NettleTea · 04/03/2015 18:42

think the Turn2us website, or entitled to will help with benefits.
if you can magic up some hours to total 16 per week (dont forget travelling/internet research/networking/paperwork all count as hours worked) then you can go straight in to Working tax credit as self employed, which gives you a heap load of breathing space with the job centre. You really dont want the pressure of them breathing down your neck as well, seriously. And if you think you will pick up some PT work as well, then that can be added to the hours.

clam · 04/03/2015 18:51

He just doesn't get it, does he? He's controlling you almost as much as before you kicked him out, albeit in a different way.

Stop with the hour-long conversations, for a start. The only thing you need to discuss with him is once/twice-weekly contact with the kids, outside the house. And it might be an idea to set up that discussion via email/text to a specially set up address/number.

Detach. DO NOT ENGAGE with his bullshit histrionics. It makes my stomach turn just reading it. And that's without him trying to touch me.

Thumbwitch · 04/03/2015 18:58

Toast, the fact he hasn't cried before speaks VOLUMES. He's never needed to. He's not crying from emotion, he's crying to manipulate you (and it's working). They are crocodile tears, trust us.

Why did you phone him, or speak to him? You didn't want or need to, so why did you let him bully you into an hour of listening to him drivelling on with his shit? YOU CAN STOP THIS! You MUST stop this. You're sending him signs all the time that he is still in charge, that he can still do what he likes - STOP IT!

I know it will take time to undo

Thumbwitch · 04/03/2015 19:00

...20 years of his abusive controlling shit, but you have to start now!

Original poster
Toastandstrawberryjam · 04/03/2015 19:04

I didn't phone him, he phoned me. Because he said we needed to talk. And because I'd just had a massive argument with my mother (resulting in me going NC with her) he caught me at a low ebb.

Will look on the benefits site. My work is so flukey, I can work 2 hours a week or 10, I never really know.

OP posts:
daisychain01 · 04/03/2015 19:04

Definitely agree about the denial - men like that somehow think that if they keep going on and on and on, ad infinitum, eventually they will get through to the woman and get them to "see sense".

Like they haven't done already? Confused

MTWTFSS · 04/03/2015 19:11

www.turn2us.org.uk/benefits_search.aspx

To see what benefits you are entitled too.

www.gingerbread.org.uk/#desktop

A charity to help single parents.

clam · 04/03/2015 19:12

He said "we" needed to talk? He meant "he" did. Just say you have nothing further to discuss at this point and you will only talk, via email, about the children. And put the phone down. The more you engage with him, the more he will hope that eventually he will wear you down.

NettleTea · 04/03/2015 19:16

you can hang up on him.
I remember jumping around the room like a crazed loon the first time I did it to my ex, just the knowledge that I COULD. That I didnt need to talk to him if I didnt want to.
After he called and called a few times I unplugged it too!

tipsytrifle · 04/03/2015 19:47

with regard to his raping you:
I can't understand why he would have done something similar.

Because he's a sadistic bastard who knew you'd been raped before. He did it as a power trip. He knew it was wrong morally and legally but hey, it happened before. You're up for the taking when his primeval urges dictate.... he is appalling. He was telling you that he had no control over his urges. The implication is that even though he now knows it is wrong (good god how could you not have told him it was wrong? wtf? No means wrong? well who knew) it might happen again.

If you can find the courage to change the locks then PLEASE do it. He can go to court yadda yadda if he cares to. If he brings the police to gain entry to "his" house you might tell them that he is a bullying rapist and you are scared to cohabit even while divorce is sorted. They would more than likely escort him away again. If you don't prevent his entry he will probably be living there again by the end of the week. He is escalating, can you sense it yourself? I can just from through the screen.

He is smothering you with his presence (phone), taking over your time and energy. This is breaking you down to regress to that teen state of violation and submission again. It's time to start fighting for your life, dear Toast

mix56 · 04/03/2015 21:16

Clam is right, you don't even need to answer the phone, if it rings you can see his number. or if he phones on an unknown number
All you have to say, is, "Is this about the children?" if he starts on with "We need to talk"
Are You ready for this ???? the response is:
NO
"No" is a complete sentence......Take the power, you are so used to being his chattel you haven't learned you MUST stand up for yourself.

He cannot waltz in at midnight, put chains on when you are at home & at night.
I agree you must get a list from WA of solicitors who know this subject. (I think a female is likely to "get it" better)

mix56 · 04/03/2015 21:18

& as for stroking your Bum etc, God that makes me want to vomit. that is basically sexual abuse

tribpot · 04/03/2015 21:25

Is he suggesting that at a very deep, prehistoric level sex is an instinctive urge prior to a vasectomy being performed? After all, our ancestors were all about keyhole surgery on their internal reproductive organs, so it makes sense that we would have developed a physical response to that. Er .. What. The. Fuck.

At minimum put chains on the doors so he is unable to get in whilst you're inside.

I can use that as a item of unreasonable behaviour in a divorce can't i?

You do understand that he committed a crime?

It's not up to him to decide what you should and should not forgive. If he was in any way truly remorseful about what had happened he would be saying "I know I have no right to ask but I hope that one day you might forgive me." And then he would wait. Also he'd keep his filthy hands to himself - but he isn't doing that either.

Thumbwitch · 05/03/2015 03:07

Yes, as clam says, you don't need to answer when he calls. You really don't! You can refuse. If you have to stop the phone ringing, you can unplug or switch it off.

20 years of conditioning is a long time - but you can and will break your conditioning and realise that you really can walk away - you no longer have to listen to, see or allow him to touch you. He has No Right to touch you without permission - NONE. Just because you are technically still married, you are not his possession - you are still an autonomous human being, with rights to say who gets to touch your body. He violates these every time he pats or strokes you.

If I were you, and I know you won't because you've put up with it for so long and don't think it's "that bad", I'd warn him that he's assaulting you by touching you without your permission.

If my ex-SIL could get my brother charged with assault because he grabbed her arms to stop her chucking his files all over the room out of spite; and my Mum be warned that she could have been charged for assault by grabbing the t-shirt of the scumbag who stole her handbag from her car while she was loading the shopping into it, then YOU can definitely get him charged for assault for touching you inappropriately and in a sexual manner when you don't want him to (and have presumably TOLD him to stop).

Even if you don't go through with it, TELL HIM that you will. You really do NOT have to put up with this any longer.

I agree with putting chains on the doors, or extra locks. He has form for physical/sexual abuse - you don't want him creeping in at night while you're sleeping!

chimchimini · 05/03/2015 07:26

Morning toast. I've been thinking about your situation, the years of abuse, rape, continuing harassment, emotional bullying and inappropriate touching, not to mention popping round whenever he feels like it and having keys to the home.

If a friend told me this I'd tell her to ring 101 and habve a chat with the domestic violence unit.

I'd be interested to see whether other posters feel the same way.

Good luck with the solicitor.

Joysmum · 05/03/2015 07:47

Good luck for the solicitors

Meerka · 05/03/2015 07:49

good luck toast. keep on keeping on.

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