The crying and the begging....

[Toastandstrawberryjam]

Sorry can't link to previous posts but DH moved out a month ago today. After years of EA I finally saw the light. He wanted it to be temporary and I thought there was a slim chance of that.

He was distraught when he left, crying, pleading. It was torture seeing him like that.

He was like it the first two weeks even in front of the DC. Then he seemed to get better. Tonight he was much worse. Holding onto ME at the front door and crying. He even asked if he could take my jumper with him as it smelled of me and he could take it to bed with him.

I'm not sure if he's genuinely upset or if this is all a big act. He's seeing a counsellor who keeps telling him our marriage is fixable. I don't think this is helping. He's lost a lot of weight in the month, he looks ill and exhausted and I am so sad.

I don't know how to help him deal with this. The only thing he wants is for me to tell him to come back and I just can't do that.

I'm loathe to spend any of his money in the house tbh! And I'm sorry but I'm laughing at curtains and pictures, they are pretty much banned. It took me five years of asking to get lounge curtains.

this is nothing to do with your feelings for the house and everything to do with the fact it is a haven for your children. Him wandering in when he feels like it and treating it like a hotel is not going to benefit anyone but him. They won't have anywhere they feel safe if he keeps invading it and you do nothing to stop that.

At 13 and 17, your children should be listened to. You're actually past the point of being able to influence how they feel about him - and it sounds like he's reaping what he's sowed. You won't improve or maintain any relationship between him and they by going through this charade - all that will happen is that a. he has a way to continue to infiltrate, which is bad for you AND them, and b. the children will suffer more stress and upset with having him coming to 'have contact' with them at the home in this forced, horrible way.

Tell him that the situation in general makes it no longer possible for him to have contact in your home. You are no longer willing to return to find that the so-called 'changed man' has taken the time to go through your shopping, but hasn't bothered to have the basic respect for you to clear away what he's messed up. Things have changed: why should he think any more that he gets to disrespect you like that and there aren't consequences? There are. He is no longer coming to the house. He can spend the time instead reading up on the definition of the word 'changed', perhaps.

And the creepy use of endearments? No more calls. Due to his inappropriate, unwanted language, you will no longer speak to him on the phone. All communication by email.

And the children? Well, if he'd been a better father, this wouldn't be a problem, because they'd want to go out with him. They don't, so you guess he won't see them until he manages to build a better relationship with them and they want to. At 13 and 17, that's up to them, and they can both read, so email it will be there too.

I repeat: having contact like this in your home will NOT do anything for the relationship between him and the children at the age they are. They don't need 'reminding' of who he is or regular face to face contact like a toddler might. The building blocks are already all there, they can't be changed: or if there is any changing that can be done, it really can only come from him, really from him and from the heart. That isn't happening right now, and in fact maybe the only way he'll have enough of a shock to get him to value them properly IS to stop facilitating - if he doesn't see them for a while it might sink in that ultimately, he's losing them. Right now, you're helping shore up the status quo in his head - that they'll always be his kids and he really doesn't actually need to engage with them honestly at all.

I'm loathe to spend any of his money in the house tbh!

It's your money. I know you're still accounting for every penny spent but you can make some cosmetic changes very cheaply.

And I'm sorry but I'm laughing at curtains and pictures, they are pretty much banned.

He doesn't live there. He can't 'ban' stuff. He actually couldn't ban stuff when he was there due to not being the boss of you and the children but now he doesn't live there it's up to you. You don't have to ask now, you just do.

I'm messing it up even more aren't i?
I'm really struggling with this.
What he wants at weekends is to take them for lunch swimming one day and then cinema and lunch the next. Thereby meaning I get no meaningful weekend time with them. So I thought this was better? He also wants dinner both evenings now. And I do get that otherwise it's a microwave meal for one for him, but that then impacts on time for dinner and what we eat.

If he sees them it should be every other weekend, not both days every weekend. And perhaps one night during the week. If they don't want to see him then he doesn't see them. And who cares about his dinner - why is his dinner for 1 your concern? Don't tell me you are feeding him too?

If I were you I would email him - every other weekend - if they want to see him. One night during the week. Away from your home. No communication unless it is about the children. End of.

Yep, his plan also doesn't allow for them to do stuff they actually want to do, or to be invited out with their mates (the 17 year old presumably organises her own weekend activities) - every weekend cannot be devoted to Disney time with dad.

Every other weekend. No dinner at your house, indeed no time inside your house. He doesn't live there.

Yes he means he wants to stay for dinner. Which is what he's now told the DC. So if I disagree it will be a massive row they have to hear. Probably tears too (his not mine).

No, you're not messing up. You are doing incredibly well.

Toast what about explaining to your girls that since you are separating, it's not longer appropriate for him to come here to your home. That they can see him when they want. The younger one, ask her how often she wants to see him and then text him that. HE can make the effort to fit round HER. Isn't that fair after all this time?

The older one can actually arrange contact for herself, as much or as little as she wants. She's 17. She is very nearly an adult and can make her own mind up.

But do not let him in your house.

it's okay to make it into your house now. It's okay to have a presence there. It sounds like you don't feel you have the right to? You do.

I don't want a presence in that house. I've been miserable in there since the day I moved in. I've tried very hard and the DC have lovely bedrooms but the white minimalist interior where nothing is ever on show and every surface gathers dust makes me want to scream.

If I asked my youngest she would never want to see him. He spent no time alone with her until she was 5 years old. Not a bedtime, not a trip to the corner shop, nothing at all. She doesn't really know him. This is the man who just over a year ago used to look after her while I worked on a Saturday for 4 hours by leaving her on her own in front of the tv the whole time. I gave up the job (as he wanted) when I found out.

She doesn't trust him, I don't blame her.

Yes, of course he should put things in the dishwasher & tidy up after himself. He is a GUEST in your home, and that's what GUESTS do! I'd remind him of that fact.

You think of what works best for you & the children. Then tell him. As far as weekends go, I'd suggest one weekend day to start with. Not at yours. If he wants to take them to the cinema and/or swimming and lunch, fine. Extend it to him taking them for dinner, too, if he wants. Dinner at the house? I'd say no until he realizes that he is a guest and treats you with respect and respects your personal space. That day may come, but it's not now. My cousin's relationship with her ex eventually got to the place where, if drop off was around supper time, she could invite him in (or he'd bring takeaway) and they would share a meal with the children as one would if a friend dropped by. He'd eat, kiss the kids, and leave.

Toast you aren't 'messing things up'. You are 'feeling your way'. You will try this and try that and eventually you'll work things out to your satisfaction.

You are aware he's forcing himself back in don't you?

Ask him to leave. If he refuses ring the police and ask them to come and remove him. You're going to have to be tougher or this time next week he'll be back full time.

He doesn't get to call the shots anymore.

Um, he's told the DC that he's going to have dinner at yours, and then the plan is to drop that on you?

They don't like him. Which is entirely his fault. They presumably don't care if he stays for dinner or not.

The way he's behaving now is simply a continuation of the fucking awful situation they've endured for years, part of the reason they don't actually want to spend time with him. What's changed, or what should be changing, is the fact that they no longer see their mother putting up with it.

So don't put up with it. Have the row, which they probably would prefer to you not having the row and them seeing yet another example of abusive, entitled power-play happening right in front of them. The row isn't worse than that, you know.

Get him OUT.

Then follow the excellent advice upthread. Email him to say that:

• no more entering the house
• you follow the norm for contact - every other weekend and an evening in the week. This is to give BOTH of you quality time.
• if they don't want to see him, they don't have to.

He won't pick up after himself when being allowed into your home. But he wants you to feed him. Jesus.

Have the row. Do your kids the WORLD of good and have the row - show them that abusers and manipulators CAN be stood up to.

If I asked my youngest she would never want to see him. .... She doesn't really know him.

Toast ... she's 13. Even the courts would take her wishes into account now. I think you need to listen to and respect her views over your husband's.

How bloody dare he. Are you going to tell him that you refuse to feed him or let him over the threshold? Your children most certainly will thank you for telling him to sod off. They are prob hoping you will and that will give them permission to relax and feel free of him. You really need to stop pussy footing around.

If he insists on staying for dinner, go back out and make him do it on his own with the kids. He doesn't want dinner with the children, he wants you back in your place, waiting on him.

Love you are not messing up. You are just learning how to assert yourself.
And don't waste the tiniest second worrying about his microwave meals for 1!
This is a grown up man.
When you find yourself bending to what he wants, or allowing him to cross boundaries, pull yourself up short and think
"what do I want" and " what do the kids want".
Then do that. And let the children do what they want.
Fuck him, he was a shit dad, a shit husband, and you owe him nothing.

No my youngest is 8 not 13. There's three of them. The only reason I'm not worried sick about her now is because her sisters will look after her. He hates that because he knows they will tell me everything, he says it makes him feel like he's on trial.

He got to mine this morning late and all 3 DC refused to go out with him.

'Oh dear darling. They don't want to go out with you. Try again in a fortnight. Bye'.

poor little man, eh?

And I'm sorry but I'm laughing at curtains and pictures, they are pretty much banned. It took me five years of asking to get lounge curtains.

Well, he doesn't live there, any more, so they no longer need to be banned.

Even if you don't feel like the house is really your home, grab a few cheap and cheerful things (cushions, pictures etc) that are to your taste - and which you can take with you after you sell up and move. I rather like this one.

Your older kids are old enough to make their own contact arrangements with their father, btw. Most kids that age are organising their own weekends. I can't imagine them wanting to spend those weekends mooching around with any parent, more than they have to, never mind a disinterested father. I wouldn't allow the youngest to spend time with him alone, though.

I swear I am not making them not want to go. They just don't want to. I'm waiting for him to accuse me of that but I am trying to be positive.

Literally he opened the door this morning and they all looked miserable. Youngest went and hid and the eldest went back to her room. My middle one is my most affectionate one and all she managed was "hi dad" from the sofa.

They don't hug him or kiss him or sit with him. He's made them like that.

he says it makes him feel like he's on trial.

But you are, dear. (said in a sarcastic tone and a big satisfied smile)

and what Tentacles said.

DS only has skype contact with his dad.
There have been times when he hasn't wanted to talk to him and I have respected him. ExH of course blamed me, but I can easily live with that.

Yes - we understand that.

So send him away as they do not want to see him.

Don't slope off and hand over control to him.

I don't understand why you are being so unbelievably downtrodden about this. Get some fire in your belly and take back the power. You have it and you just have no idea.