The crying and the begging....

[Toastandstrawberryjam]

Sorry can't link to previous posts but DH moved out a month ago today. After years of EA I finally saw the light. He wanted it to be temporary and I thought there was a slim chance of that.

He was distraught when he left, crying, pleading. It was torture seeing him like that.

He was like it the first two weeks even in front of the DC. Then he seemed to get better. Tonight he was much worse. Holding onto ME at the front door and crying. He even asked if he could take my jumper with him as it smelled of me and he could take it to bed with him.

I'm not sure if he's genuinely upset or if this is all a big act. He's seeing a counsellor who keeps telling him our marriage is fixable. I don't think this is helping. He's lost a lot of weight in the month, he looks ill and exhausted and I am so sad.

I don't know how to help him deal with this. The only thing he wants is for me to tell him to come back and I just can't do that.

Apparently I will need to do mediation which will fail if DH isn't somewhere near to acceptance. Thereby costing far more and being far more difficult. That to me makes sense.

I'm not so keen on that advice either. What would YOU like to do, Toast?

That's fine to me. Really it is. He did say if he's still the same after Easter then just start the ball rolling. But he's fairly sure by then he will have taken legal advice himself, realise all he stands to lose and it will all get very different.

Well, as in anything, you get good mediators and bad ones. Mediation will fail as both parties have to come to the table with honesty and openness, and he won't. I'm unsure whether mediation is actually required legally, but Courts do seem to like it if you've given it a go.

You can do shuttle mediation so you don't have to sit in the same room with dh, and the mediator goes back and forth. One of the reasons people are urging you to report dh's abuse is so that there is an official record of it, so that it is easier for you when the legal steps have to taken. No one would expect mediation to actually work if it onvolves an abusive twat, and it becomes a simple paper exercise with tick boxes.

You don't need mediation if he is abusive. Which he is.

From another thread, the OP there put a request to be excused from mediation. Check this.

You need a solicitor who is used to dealing with cases of abuse.

I know I could say that I won't do mediation but surely it's simpler and cheaper if I do? If we can't agree it goes to court anyhow.

Solicitor suggested I separate first legally then divorce in two years. Said for somebody like my DH that might be better as he can save face and not be divorced because of his behaviour. That sounded sensible.

I'm not trying to just let him get away with it, but I also don't want to prod the lion cage too much.

Toast, your H doesn't have to agree to divorce, you'll still get it if you petition for one. He can't make it more difficult or expensive, unless he hides assets.

Report the abuse you'll at least be entitled to legal aid then. Or report it to GP.

He will get so very nasty when he realised this is it.

I always say this, but I found bring the petitioner in the divorce an advantage.

Stop caring what he thinks/feels. For once it's all about you & your kids.

just seconding what Lweji says.
You can be exempted from mediation if there is abuse. In fact if your solicitor is halfway clued up on abuse he would know that.
This is why I recommended speaking to WA to see who they recommend in your area - or is there a local refuge you can call because they will know which solicitors to use.
I went to one and they knew EXACTLY what he would do and when. It was uncanny.

exemption for domestic violence
and violence doesnt just mean physical (although rape is most definately physical)

This solicitor seems to be a little too concerned about keeping your H sweet.

You're in an abusive situation. Waiting 2 years sounds risky, under those circumstances. I'm sure WA would advise otherwise.

‘domestic violence’ means any incident, or pattern of incidents, of controlling, coercive or threatening behaviour, violence or abuse (whether psychological, physical, sexual, financial or emotional) between the prospective applicant and another prospective party;

I think the solicitor had dealt with a lot of cases where it paid to keep the man sweet!

I don't really care if I'm divorced or not. If I can move out, sort out money and access, then that's enough for me. I just need to have all the legal stuff done.

yes, you need to be the petitioner. He is going to be nasty anyway - he may still not agree after 2 years, which then drags it out to 5 years, by which time the children may be of ages that seriously affects the settlement.

and 5 years of his continued coercions? If he is going to carry on the same there is going to be a time (I hope) when you snap. And it will get nasty then anyway. why prolong it. all the time you pussy foot around him, the longer he thinks he still has control over you because you are scared to rock the boat or stand up for yourself.

One of the empowering things about a shit hot solicitor and a divorce is that finally your voice gets heard. That its not about what he says and what he wants. That the law is on your side and no matter what waffle and crap he may attempt to bamboozle you with, the law is the law and it WILL be served. It vindicates you. Its cathartic. And it gives you strength and the knowledge and confidence to know that you dont have to think about him any more, there are people there to help and protect you.

I don't need to bury him for what he's done. Just being able to walk away and shut my own front door will be enough. Being happy and having a nice life is all the revenge I need.

Ok I thought that I could do all the legalities but just not actually get divorced. That seemed to be what the solicitor was saying?

but all the time you are still married (separated or not) he can come to your house. He can decide or not if he will keep up his side of the agreement, pay maintanance or not, stick to contact arrangements. It gives him a hope that he will win you round. He could, quite legally, just move straight back in. In scotland you can be legally seperated. Not here in the UK
Divorce clearly says its over, and if he has played silly buggers in the run up, sets out exactly what he must pay and do. It leaves him no wriggle room to manipulate.

Ok I totally misunderstood then. Because I thought I could move out, get somewhere new and it would be mine. That the money would be split and everything done apart from the divorce.

In that case I'm not waiting!!

Solicitor suggested I separate first legally then divorce in two years. Said for somebody like my DH that might be better as he can save face and not be divorced because of his behaviour.

What if he is still unreasonable in 2 years and doesn't agree to a divorce?

You have to consider how to protect yourself from his abuse and your children as well.
Keeping him sweet is not really conducive to that.

Yes, I've seen you are not waiting.
Good. :)

Wow, I'm glad you said you're not waiting, what possible good would staying married to him do you ? (you have still got the "pacifying OH" mind set) it just allows him to remain attached & manipulate you.
Get rid, Pronto,
Please will you just ring WA & get a list of solicitors who are clued up on these EA

Yep. The sooner you are unmarried, the better. And the better you will be able to heal from it.

It's pretty much guaranteed that he's going to react negatively and possibly obstructively, whatever you do, so you may as well do as much as you canto sever as much of the control he has over you, as quickly as possible.

The 2 years option is best suited to couples who have drifted apart and decide that there's nothing to reconcile, after that time.

The divorce and financial bit usually coincides.
Unless he is willing to be really reasonable about it all and from what you say I doubt it.
My OH can't get his full divorce until financials are agreed.
My financials went to court after the decree absolute came through.
It really depends on how you want to play it.
Definitely see another solicitor next week.
You may get some better advice (I hope so).
Well done on getting things moving.

Here's the thing about mediation: he will play nice and cooperative because he wants to come back. His woe is me, please forgive me act may be very convincing to the mediator. You dont want him back, so either you look like the uncooperative party, or the pressure of the situation will cause you to break, and let him back in the house on a trial basis.

If the next lawyer suggests it, tell them it has been a long road to reach the point of understanding that your relationship is not 'normal', and given the long term abuse and the rape, there is nothing to mediate. It is over. If your STBX has truly learned anything from your kicking him out, some other woman will gave to be the beneficiary. But you doubt he has, and live in fear. No mediation.

I dont know about in the UK, but in the US in the particular state i lived in, and nearly 30 years ago), i had to be divorced to impose any kind of support agreement. So long as we were married, the police and courts had no reason to step between us, unless things actually reached the point of me needing to apply for welfare.

The way state support works here is different, but i am sure many will counsel you that you can't go halfway with this. Legally, if you are married, he is your next of kin. Various rights he would have after your death could be problematic for your children or family. He would be entitled to make decisions for you if your were incapacitated. your finances would be at least tenuously connected. Even something as simple as dating would always be clouded by knowing if you meet someone you would consider marrying, FIRST you would have to interact with your X. Who may or may not be easily found by then.

It sounds like today's lawyer doesnt really understand your situation. You arent safe. There is no point to delay. Begin the paperwork and be ahead of the game. It doesnt have to take years and shouldnt.