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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Terrible situation with pil

263 replies

backdatednamechange · 24/02/2015 16:51

I really need some help. Apologies, this will be long.
If you could check my previous threads for background, I'd appreciate it.

DH and I have been on the rocks for a year or so, since having DS.
We had DD late last year and have been working at our marriage.

Apparently not hard enough.

We still fight, still name call, I still cry. Nothing physical, but still pretty abusive. Probably on both sides.

We recently went to his family home 4 hours away to celebrate his birthday. We took the DC. First 2 days were fine.

Third day was his birthday. He was meant to get a lie in ( rarely gets one and was meant to be a birthday treat) but his dad woke him up. He often does this when we visit there. This put DH into a foul mood, and the whole day seemed to go wrong.

Someone was smoking in the house. Before we visited, DH said he had made sure this wouldn't happen. Dd has just had bronchitis and still has a cough, and DS was prem. anyway I asked DH to ask his mum (approachable and understanding) to stop it. I asked nicely. He bit my head off and told me I was looking to be miserable and start an argument.

Trying to put DS boots on, he was screaming cos he is knackered. Fil came over and took the boots away telling me not to put shoes on DS which don't fit. (He wore them at nursery 2 days before). DH came in and saw DS screaming so he started whining about how stressful kids are.

We went for a walk but DH wanted to go right at DS naptime so he was very, very grumpy. Ditto it was over DS lunchtime, so he was hungry. DH combated this by feeding him on the go in his buggy. Not the end of the world but not great as there was no visible end to the meal, so again DS kicked off. He is 23 months btw.

Went to leave and DH sat in the car with the kids while I struggled to collapse and clean (muddy wheels) the new buggy, and to heave it into the boot. When we got into the car I told him that pissed me off and he totally kicked off at me. Saying why was I having a go at him on his birthday. It escalated and I told him that the nap/lunch/DS situation pissed me off too. So DH was really angry at this point.

We got back to pils, I bathed the kids, and went to breast feed and settle dd for a nap. DH came up in between and had a go at me telling me I'd ruined his birthday and calling me names. Then I went downstairs to feed DS. While I was giving him his dinner, DH went to have a drink with a friend. He didn't tell me this, just his dad.

I got DS fed and to bed, (took ages as he was unsettled in strange house and travel cot), and went downstairs. Mil asked me where DH was and I said I didn't know. Fil told us, and then they started quizzing me why DH hadn't told me and what was wrong.

I never usually tell them our problems, but I was already upset that he had disappeared without telling me, leaving me to deal with kids alone and then sit with his parents, and I started to cry. Told them what had happened that day and they started having a go at me. "What did you say to make him angry" "it always takes 2" "you need counselling".
Fil also mentioned something which happened 8 years ago when I was a teenager (DH and I had a row, he told me to leave, so I did, I walked out of his house at midnight) as evidence that I cause arguments.

That really hurt, he doesn't know me that well and I'm married and a mum now.

Anyway I went to bed, and DH came in around 4.
I got up with kids the next morning and left DH sleeping, he deserved at least one lie in.

Anyway, pil started in on me again. More of the same. There is so much that was said but it's hard to all go into here. Things like I'm argumentative, I need help, I twist everything, DH doesn't do anything wrong without me provoking him. Fil insisted on going to wake DH up again. I asked pil not to mention yet that we had talked and we could try and enjoy the rest of the weekend. They agreed.

I went to put DS down for a nap and when I came down, they had told DH everything. He was totally overwhelmed. So he starred trying to talk to me, but pil kept jumping in and speaking for him. We both need counselling and I need individual counselling as I have issues. We are going to destroy our kids. I'm controlling, I'm a narcissist, I think they are monsters, I hate their nationality (I'm 1/4 that nationality and it's in the UK), they lied about things I was saying, mil telling FIL that I was angry about the smoking which I wasn't. They told me I (not we, I) shouldn't have bought a big house as now DH doesn't have enough money (I'm on mat leave and DH has NEVER had enough money). Mil told me that they have seen me with my face like thunder when they tease me cos I hate it and I can't dictate other people's senses of humour (I HATE being teased, it reminds me of being bullied at school) And loads more I can't even remember. It was cruel, abusive, and in front of my baby. I went upstairs to get away from it but felt totally trapped. Not once did DH support me.

This was about 2pm. An hour later DS was climbing the walls so I dressed the kids and went to get the buggy. Told DH I was taking them to playground. Fil over heard and told me I was irresponsible taking dd out in 3degree weather in the afternoon as she had bronchitis and can't be around fag smoke. Told me that if I was going to crucify him for smoking in his own house that no way should I be taking her for a walk.

I said that I take them out every day at home, that fresh air is good for them, and I would be happy to check with the gp about the danger of smoke and benefits of fresh air. Fil was just really snide telling me "oh of course you know what's best you know everything and it's always your way" I just went upstairs crying.

DH came up and we just sat there, he was accusatory at first "you are trying to drive me away from my family" but then he said he was sorry and it was awful. There was a lot of back and forth of this.

We slept (he went and spoke to his parents, not sure what was said but apparently he defended me, then had dinner with his family) and then left the next morning. He insisted that the kids get to say goodbye, which tbh felt like I had my arms chopped off. I left without seeing pil. This was 2 days ago and no contact yet.

I feel gutted. I like mil but there is backstory with fil and I feel like I hate him. I'm certainly scared of him, and so is DH. I feel like I never want to see them again and never want the kids round them, which just isn't possible.

This is a pil post btw. I know I have big problems with DH, but I love him and we are going to still work at it. With counselling too. I think he has been very damaged by his dad and though I'm hurt and angry at him, I also feel very sorry for him.

He recognises his dad has problems and has done a bad thing, but traditionally he and his family sweep problems under the carpet and I just can't do that this time. And he loves them.

Any hand holding, advice, support would be so welcome. I feel I am at the start of a very long, difficult journey. I would like the end of it to be DH, DC, and me, happy.

OP posts:
backdatednamechange · 16/07/2015 22:48

I'm not close to gran. I've been with DH 8/9 years now and only met her 2 years ago.

Fil started the guilt tonight about her "seeing the great grandchildren one last time" but firstly, she has 8 GGC, and not all of them will be making the journey, and secondly, not even all the grand kids will. Sadly people work, don't have much money, and won't be able to go up. Thankfully DH ignored Fil.

Tonight I bit the bullet and asked DH when he wanted to go up and offered tomorrow if it was convenient (my birthday), said I didn't mind at all and I meant it. Which I think touched him, but he wants to celebrate as planned and is then wanting to go on sat/sun for a few nights. I asked him if he wanted us there and said "because we can book a hotel if you do, but it might be better if you were in 'son' mode, not husband and father mode", and he agreed with me.

He then said after this visit, to see gran, he won't go again until the funeral, as he can't justify the unpaid time off. He also doesn't really seem to want to be there. I feel so sorry for him as I know he isn't ready to face his family and this forces it. I know there will be some drunken bitching and DH won't know what to do.

He made no mention of us going to the funeral, and honestly, I wouldn't take DC anyway so that's that. Plus DS is 2.4 and therefore a monster in disguise.

It's a shame. Gran is a nice lady and under normal circumstances, I'd want to take the kids to see her and be there myself to support the family. But all things considered, I can't imagine they want me anywhere near them either!

I have my third counselling session next week and will mention it. I am proud I've managed to put DH first (I really don't want him going up there!) and not been selfish or got angry.

OP posts:
FrancesNiadova · 17/07/2015 22:59

FWIW, I think that you've handled this really well & made some wise decisions. Star

backdatednamechange · 18/07/2015 16:29

Thank you Frances.

Well, he has left, today until Thursday, and I feel bereft. Not only missing him, and the kids are really missing him, but also worried about what's going to be said.

Either he or I will be hurt through this, there is no doubt. His parents will take the opportunity to guilt him about the kids at minimum. If we are very unlucky, they will bad mouth me.

I hope we can survive this. Our relationship has been better lately, but is still not normal or strong. DH has been diagnosed with anxiety and depression and I know his dad will only exacerbate that.

He was nearly crying in the car saying he didn't want to go. I feel so sorry for him. And sorry that he has to say goodbye to his gran under these circumstances.

OP posts:
AspieAndNT · 18/07/2015 16:54

Why do the PIL have to even know he has gone?

Atenco · 18/07/2015 16:55

I'm certainly no expert on these types of families, OP, but I feel for you and your DH. But it sounds like he is making progress and they don't have the same influence over him as they had before.

What kind of parent wants their adult child's marriage to fail?

backdatednamechange · 18/07/2015 17:18

He doesn't know where his gran lives, and he has no way to get there, we have no money for taxis or hotels.

Plus he loves his parents and wants to support his dad as he loses his mum.

I have no idea atenco, my mum keeps asking that. What is the goal here. But these are the same people who got offended when DH stopped smoking and tolerating racism, because that was an indirect criticism of their behaviour.

It's just mad.

OP posts:
Ohfourfoxache · 18/07/2015 19:09

No advice I'm afraid, but I just want you to know I'm thinking of you.

Can he get away to call you at least? Might help xx

backdatednamechange · 22/07/2015 22:43

So he hasn't really been in touch.

Last night he started messaging and got angry at me over nothing really. It's because he was due back today.

He arrived back, got in the car and started going on about how he was going to be more assertive and not let anyone bully him. When we got home he told me that what happened in February was both me and his parents and since neither of us would apologise we should just move on. That I had said nasty stuff too.

  • the nasty stuff was me saying that if DH and I divorced, even if he had cheated on me or worse, they would still support him over me. Which was in response to them telling me that DH wouldn't be angry unless I gave him a reason.

He told me that his mum thinks I'm controlling and it's true, that I control our lives and I've controlled it so we have no family nearby and I love that. Told me that if his parents die and I've caused this that he will just walk out on me.

Told me that he does loads, more than other dads, he goes above and beyond (this is his mum talking).

That he was happy and relaxed for the first time at home in a long time. That he didn't get in touch because he didn't want to speak to me and that by arguing with him last night I've tainted his trip.

I am so, so fucking tired of this shit. I feel like I should leave him. I can't dread every visit or communication from his home. I can't cope that he is so willing to believe shit about me. It's not a marriage, not a partnership. It's so shit because he is having a terrible time at work at the minute and he can't tell his parents, but I've been there every step of the way, and he doesn't see it.

I feel like I'm dying inside. I've started self harming again and he uses it to explain why I'm mad and violent and I can't handle that either.

Please can I have a hand to hold.

OP posts:
Morganly · 22/07/2015 23:49

Oh sweetheart, he's been sucked in by them again. I'm so sorry for you.

So, next steps.

No more emotional discussions with him. If he starts accusing you of stuff, leave the room, don't argue etc.

You may need to call time on the marriage but it is possible that counselling can help him see what is going on. If he won't agree to counselling, you could look at counselling for yourself to help you deal with all this and find other ways of coping rather than self-harming. Also start exploring what you would do if you left him with regard to where you would live etc.

It is really really clear from your posts that you are not at fault in any way and you do not need to explain or justify yourself to us, him or his horrible family. You are the victim and he's also a victim of his toxic family but he is responsible for the damage to your marriage and to your mental health and happiness.

MiddleAgedandConfused · 23/07/2015 01:18

No words of advice - just a hug.Flowers Flowers Flowers Flowers

CantAffordtoLive · 23/07/2015 03:28

Please stop with the SH. I've been there. I know. But it does not help.

If you are feeling this bad you really do need to get away. Can you ask him to leave for a while or can you go to your parents?

I think if this relationship is doing this to you then the best thing would be to end it. You cannot fix him. You deserve better and you need to look after yourself. Flowers

SmillasSenseOfSnow · 23/07/2015 04:08

You are self-harming emotionally just by staying in this situation. Stop exposing yourself to this shit.

I don't know whether it was you or another poster but this reminds me so much of another thread where it became evident that the DH never, ever really 'got' it, was never really interested in changing or in defending his wife. All he did was get trapped between a rock and a hard place with his abusive parents and the FOG he was in due to them and his increasingly appalled wife.

I can honestly say I don't believe that your DH has ever 'got' it. I don't believe that he has ever really decided to make a stand against his parents. I don't believe he has ever really thought about the situation from your perspective and seen that it needs to change. Like the DH in that other thread, he is running scared and always has been. He's so caught up in FOG that he doesn't even know his own mind, and probably never will while you're still with him. He is on his DP's side when he's talking to them and on your side when he's talking to you. At best. But it's all just a fucking shuffle step. He bends with whichever wind is blowing at the time just to get you or his DPs off his back.

Is your relationship co-dependent? It sounds like it might be. You are worth so much more than this shit.

Atenco · 23/07/2015 04:47

So sorry, OP. What can I say, that is so shit. But if he feels that way, what is there left in your relationship.

And please don't self harm

Walkacrossthesand · 23/07/2015 07:42

And this, BDNC, is why you were dreading him going to see his parents - you knew they would drip poison and he wouldn't be able to stay on course.
If he really believes what they're saying, then it's time to call time on the marriage, surely? He can't have it both ways - either he has a loving and supportive wife (which is what he seems to feel when he's with you away from them) or he's trapped in a controlling marriage - in which case, release him! The irony of course is that if you were controlling you wouldn't release him - maybe he'll come to realise that when its too late.
This is really hard because of course you love him - but this is corrosive, and exhausting. Have you discussed splitting up before, or is this the first time it's reached this point?

FrancesNiadova · 23/07/2015 08:55

BDNCh how are you this morning? Brew
Can you organise with someone from your family or a really good friend to go away for a few days with your dc?
You need headspace. Mummy' s little soldier has had his head filled with crp about you. It's time that he man's the fk up & supports his wife & mother of his child, or moves back with Mummy.
You don't need this now. You need someone to look after you.
Get on the phone & see who can put you up & give you the TLC that your husband should be giving you you need.
Take important documents, passports, bank statements, asset statements, mortgage details etc, just in case. Be prepared. Although you probably won't need the documents, you'll know that you've got an exit bag ready, just in case.
You know that you shouldn't be self-harming & that you're doing it because you're not happy, feeling used & not valued, & feeling that you're trapped in an impossible situation.
Get your emergency exit documents ready.
Arrange to go away for a few days to take yourself away from the emotional abuse, (because that's what it is), give yourself some space & think about what you want to do.
Start by taking 5 minutes to plan your plan & have a Brew
Sending big «hugs»

backdatednamechange · 23/07/2015 10:35

Hi. I'm pretty shit today.

He doesn't see the problem! Says nothing is wrong, that he never talked about us to his parents.

He can't explain where all the comments come from, said he loves us etc.

Heard it all before.

Anyway I've asked him to leave. He is disbelieving and doesn't understand why. I've told him I love him but he is clearly happier in his parents home and I don't want to be scared every time he speaks to them or visits them.

He said he feels good as he knows now he can be in touch with them without feeling guilty, but I explained that he clearly can't without changing his whole opinion of me. He can't juggle it emotionally. He also made it clear that he doesn't really believe me about what happened in February. Keeps saying "I wasn't there".

I just can't cope any more. I'm out with the kids now, then taking them to nursery and then I have a counselling session. So won't see H until around 3pm. And I'm just dreading it. We can't even have a conversation without him telling me I have an anger problem. And I do, it's him!! Even my counsellor has said she doesn't feel my anger is misdirected or disproportional. I don't feel I know what's right any more. Don't know if I'm the bad one or h is.

OP posts:
FrancesNiadova · 23/07/2015 13:03

He's trying to skew your core beliefs because his core beliefs are so off-centre.
Outside of the closed ranks of his family, people will be totally shocked by their behaviour. He can't put the distance between them to realign his own core beliefs.
You have to take care of yourself and your DC now. Flowers
Can you get RL support?

Anniegetyourgun · 23/07/2015 13:08

Is he not even aware he said those dreadful things in the car? Confused

I don't see how you can possibly be "the bad one". I don't think your H is necessarily bad either... but the more damaged one, certainly. You may have your issues but you do at least have your feet on the ground. What planet his are on I hate to think. For one thing, he can't just come home spouting complete offensive nonsense and then forget it and expect you to as well. You have ears, and a memory, inconvenient though they may be.

backdatednamechange · 23/07/2015 14:06

Annie you make me laugh! My memory is very inconvenient to H indeed!

Well I've just got out of counselling and she agrees that space is good. If he can go home, he can figure out if that really is where he is happy. Or figure out if he loves and appreciates me.

I know no matter what, he has to make a choice now. Who to believe and who to support. I can't go on knowing how he tolerates and possibly believes what his parents say.

There is so much that is skewed which he thinks is ok. His parents have no friends, just see one brother, and they never socialise - he is ok with this and even aspires to it! He thinks we should be living near them so he has someone to hang out with. Rather than make friends off his own bat. He says I have controlled us living here with no family near and I love it. It's just bonkers and I don't even know how to defend myself.

If they want him home, they can have him. I hope he goes.

OP posts:
backdatednamechange · 23/07/2015 17:40

He told me if he leaves, that's it. That I'm naive and a moron to think he would come back any different.

I'm so trapped.

OP posts:
CantAffordtoLive · 23/07/2015 17:58

Let him go. No, make him go. You will feel better. At the moment you can't see the wood for the trees.

SmillasSenseOfSnow · 23/07/2015 18:01

If he can go home, he can figure out if that really is where he is happy. Or figure out if he loves and appreciates me.[...] I know no matter what, he has to make a choice now.

I hope he goes.

I'm so trapped.

The only person trapping you is you. You are seeing yourself as powerless and seeing him as the one who has to make a decision. You are the one who has to make a decision.

He is not going to change. He is not going to 'wake up'.

As I said before, you are worth so much more than this shit.

I hope you go (figuratively... I hope for your sake that he's the one to move out, to save you some hassle).

backdatednamechange · 23/07/2015 18:23

I feel trapped because I love him and want him to make these changes. Because I don't want to send my kids off to his parents for weekends and holidays.

I can't bear the thought of not being with my kids. They are so little. And the horrible in laws I've fought to protect them from, they will have full access to. The smoking, the racism, the bullying. It makes me so sad for them.

I know he won't change. But I still wish he would.

OP posts:
Baddz · 23/07/2015 18:39

You are trapped now
You will be free when he is gone
X

FanOfHermione · 23/07/2015 18:48

Unfortunately you are trapped now.

And you won't be sending the dcs to his parents but to him. Whether he will actually live with them in a different issue, just as whether he will actually carry on seeing them.

:(:( you've out some much effort into making this work. And he clearly has made a lot of efforts too, all of which are just decimated by ONE visit to his parents :(

However, I agree. He needs to chose. You, and him, and the dcs, can't carry on living like this.